What's so bad about socialism?

[Love Mountain]

Excuse me, but can all these people who talk about socialism with their 10 year old hearsay define it?
What is socialism? It seems like you people know so much about it eh..

Socialism is the transition period between capitalism and communism. At least as Marx defines it. Obviously the modern definition has evolved since Marx's model does not fit today's society.

[Lazarus]

Explain how what I said is racist.

They hate us.

"They" being the welfare parasites and undesirables such as the Negros and the Muslims? Yeah. That's some pretty racist garbage there. Also "Die sächsische steigt" (The Saxon rises, for those who don't speak German). Yeah, that's racist too. And of course, calling all the non-Saxons "Bastards". That's like, racist as balls there.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

All you see is how Negro culture is cool and White culture is "lame." USA is a prime example about how stupid Multiculturalism is.

It's completely the opposite. merican Black culture is associated with poor crime ghettos and dickheads like Kanye West. I am familiar with these ideas even though I've never lived in America, that's how widespread they are.

[dogukan]

Socialism is the transition period between capitalism and communism. At least as Marx defines it. Obviously the modern definition has evolved since Marx's model does not fit today's society.

There is no single defined model of "socialism" which you can criticize. You can criticize the concept of socialism, the ownership of means of production by the proleteriat, or you can critize 20th century experience of "communism". But you can not spit on the concept of socialism without understanding its framework.

A 10 year old who goes and says "socialism promotes laziness" is the stupidest thing to read. What is this socialism this person is referring to? Can we say the Paris Commune, the USSR, Cuba, Venezuela or North Korea are the "same" experiences? No, they are all very diverse. They dont even fit the requirements of a materialist socialism interpretation. Therefore, most of the comments in this thread are annoyingly cliche and uneducated.

When one is to critize socialism, the person has to adress the materialist framework, the philosophy behind it. WHICH BTW, neither requires people to be "good-hearted awesome nongreedy ubermensch" nor has anything to do with promotion of laziness.

[Slydessertfox]

Explain how what I said is racist.

Negros voted for Obama simply because he's on of them.

Not only is this false (look at the numbers, most black people usually vote democrat regardless. Al Gore got 90% of the black vote in 2000, and John Kerry got 88% in 2004. Also, before you edited it out, you mentioned the evils of multiculturism and race mixing. Plus you repeatedly mention the "white race" as somehow being oppressed. Which is funny, because the white race doesn't know the first thing about what oppression is.

By the way, the only ones that think I am a racist are the welfare parasites and illegal immigrants.

Welfare parasites. Really? Have you ever been in a situation where you had to go on welfare and foodstamps? Newsflash: Nobody, save for a small minority of druggies and the like, who goes on welfare, want to go on welfare. I take offense to calling people who need government assistance parisites, mostly because my family is on food stamps, and because I can see very clearly you don't know the first thing about the lives of the poor .

All they want are hand-outs taken from the white mans working hands.

And you still don't believe you are racist? Really? The white mans working hands. Do you even read what you are saying?

They hate us.

Bull ****ing ****. Keep on creating these false excuses in your mind for being racist. They don't hate you. Illegal immigrants, at least in the US, come because they can't afford to get here legally, and the wait time is literally years long. All they want is an oppurtunity for them and their families to have a chance at a good life. They don't want to mooch off the government and thinking they do shows you really don't understand their situation. Illegal immigrants, again, at least in the US, probably work harder than than most Americans do. If hard work really determined your wealth and success, that illegal immigrant mowing the lawn down the street would be the richest and most successful person alive.

If you think us Whites are just going to lay down while everyone promotes hatred towards us, then you're wrong.

If you think we're going to let them take what we worked for, you're wrong.

If you think we're going to let them control our banks and jobs, you're wrong.

The white race is being marginalized, being targeted.
Everyday we're taught to hate ourselves, because of the past.

That time is gone, we don't need to apologize, and we don't need to hate ourselves.

Jesus ****ing christ. You are making up these things in your head. Nobody is teaching you to hate yourselves. Nobody is trying to "steal" your jobs. Nobody is targeting you.

We don't want to mix cultures, we don't want lazy criminals in our lands, and we won't let them throw us out.

I'm tired of this. You are nothing short of a racist scumbag.

Now, in what way is any of this racist? Who in the world would want their race to be marginalized and taught to hate itself?

You are beyond hopeless. Please check in at the nearest mental asylum immediately. I mean seriously, you would fit well in the KKK if you lived in America.

[Love Mountain]

^What are you talking about? He asked a question, I gave the textbook answer. I am not criticizing anything, and for one thing, you have the definition of Socialism completely wrong. You are confusing it with the concept of Communism, which is the ownership of production by the proletariat like you said. Socialism is the transition between the point of when scarcity is eliminated through means of production, and the seizure of these assets by the proletariat. This transition period is the focus of many books and leaders because they all have various of interpretations of how this transition should occur. Whether through an elite vanguard, the people, or just one man. There's also a difference between how each idealist chooses to utilize the means of production, and of course the fact that the revolution it supposed to occur globally as opposed to nationally. But you know all of this, so why quote me as if I'm providing false information?

[Slydessertfox]

^What are you talking about? He asked a question, I gave the textbook answer. I am not criticizing anything, and for one thing, you have the definition of Socialism completely wrong. You are confusing it with the concept of Communism, which is the ownership of production by the proletariat like you said. Socialism is the transition between the point of when scarcity is eliminated through means of production, and the seizure of these assets by the proletariat. This transition period is the focus of many books and leaders because they all have various of interpretations of how this transition should occur. Whether through an elite vanguard, the people, or just one man. There's also a difference between how each idealist chooses to utilize the means of production, and of course the fact that the revolution it supposed to occur globally as opposed to nationally. But you know all of this, so why quote me as if I'm providing false information?

Que?

edit: Nevermind, you were replying to the guy above me, my mistake.

[Winston Smith]

The problem with socialism is that it forgets that the individual is the key. Socialism is a collectivist ideology (obviously), and as a follower of Mill, in particular On Liberty, I am opposed to it.

[LWT]

Socialism is the transition period between capitalism and communism. At least as Marx defines it. Obviously the modern definition has evolved since Marx's model does not fit today's society.

Marx was just one person in a socialist movement that already existed at that time.

[dogukan]

^What are you talking about? He asked a question, I gave the textbook answer. I am not criticizing anything, and for one thing, you have the definition of Socialism completely wrong. You are confusing it with the concept of Communism, which is the ownership of production by the proletariat like you said. Socialism is the transition between the point of when scarcity is eliminated through means of production, and the seizure of these assets by the proletariat. This transition period is the focus of many books and leaders because they all have various of interpretations of how this transition should occur. Whether through an elite vanguard, the people, or just one man. There's also a difference between how each idealist chooses to utilize the means of production, and of course the fact that the revolution it supposed to occur globally as opposed to nationally. But you know all of this, so why quote me as if I'm providing false information?

Sorry that I did not clarify. That "you" was not directed towards you. I was actually trying to refer to a lot of people who post in this thread.
Things like this:

The problem with socialism is that it forgets that the individual is the key. Socialism is a collectivist ideology (obviously), and as a follower of Mill, in particular On Liberty, I am opposed to it.

How is that relevant? What kind of an arguement is that? I am a follower of Mill so socialism is wrong. This is ridiculous.
*Socialism is not an ideology
*I dont see how socialism can exist without a Marxist framework, which you are not even referring to

I love how he says, "on particular liberty" as if socialism has a set of laws, one of them being gettinf rid of "liberty".

[Cor De Ferrum]

Not only is this false (look at the numbers, most black people usually vote democrat regardless. Al Gore got 90% of the black vote in 2000, and John Kerry got 88% in 2004. Also, before you edited it out, you mentioned the evils of multiculturism and race mixing. Plus you repeatedly mention the "white race" as somehow being oppressed. Which is funny, because the white race doesn't know the first thing about what oppression is.




Welfare parasites. Really? Have you ever been in a situation where you had to go on welfare and foodstamps? Newsflash: Nobody, save for a small minority of druggies and the like, who goes on welfare, want to go on welfare. I take offense to calling people who need government assistance parisites, mostly because my family is on food stamps, and because I can see very clearly you don't know the first thing about the lives of the poor .

And you still don't believe you are racist? Really? The white mans working hands. Do you even read what you are saying?


Bull ****ing ****. Keep on creating these false excuses in your mind for being racist. They don't hate you. Illegal immigrants, at least in the US, come because they can't afford to get here legally, and the wait time is literally years long. All they want is an oppurtunity for them and their families to have a chance at a good life. They don't want to mooch off the government and thinking they do shows you really don't understand their situation. Illegal immigrants, again, at least in the US, probably work harder than than most Americans do. If hard work really determined your wealth and success, that illegal immigrant mowing the lawn down the street would be the richest and most successful person alive.



Jesus ****ing christ. You are making up these things in your head. Nobody is teaching you to hate yourselves. Nobody is trying to "steal" your jobs. Nobody is targeting you.

I'm tired of this. You are nothing short of a racist scumbag.

You are beyond hopeless. Please check in at the nearest mental asylum immediately. I mean seriously, you would fit well in the KKK if you lived in America.

Typical, and expected behavior. Cursing, insulting, emotions all over the place. Crying about food stamps, looking for pity. All you do is prove what I believe to be correct.

Illegal immigrants, are just that. ILLEGAL. And should be thrown out as soon as soon as they're caught. I don't care if they're looking for jobs, or their family is starving, if they are here illegally, then they should be treated like what they are; Criminals.

The White Race, has always endeavored to bring the latest technologies, knowledge, and political ideas to the other races.

The White Race has made advances in scientific, medical, and mathematical fields that cannot be surpassed.

The White Race tried to help the other races to build, tried to bring education, and look what happened.

Absolutely nothing. The middle east: Arabs, Persians, and Pashtuns run around blowing everything up.

Asia: Communist Dictatorships and caste system governments dot the land.

South America: Poverty, sex-slave trafficking, out of control drugs, starving people everywhere, corrupt politicians.

Now tell me, where in Sweden does this happen? Where the immigrants go.

Where in Germany? where the immigrants go.

Where in Norway? Where the immigrants go.

That's a fact. And that is the problem. Germany isn't the problem, Sweden isn't, Norway isn't, it's the immigrants.

We've been patient, tried to accept others, but we don't get any appreciation for us letting them seek a better life. If they can't play by the rules, then they can go back.

There's no reason to let them stay, if all they're going to do is commit crimes, because that IS ALL THEY DO.

Müde von ihnen.
Sie stehlen.
Sie vergewaltigen.
Sie bringen illegale Drogen.

Tired of being hated throughout the world for being white, tired of being oppressed by these foreigners that come into the Rheinlande and try to change everything.

Don't you get it?

Don't you dare call me a racist, you do not know me personally and have no idea what I have done before.

Simply because of my blonde hair, blue eyes, and Nordic-Aryan physique people hate me. THAT is racism.

[LWT]

Oh god, do you actually believe you are being called racist for being white? Don't you see it may have anything to do with the race theory you are telling us about?

[Cor De Ferrum]

Oh god, do you actually believe you are being called racist for being white? Don't you see it may have anything to do with the race theory you are telling us about?

One preceded the other.

[Slydessertfox]

Typical, and expected behavior. Cursing, insulting, emotions all over the place. Crying about food stamps, looking for pity. All you do is prove what I believe to be correct.

Illegal immigrants, are just that. ILLEGAL. And should be thrown out as soon as soon as they're caught. I don't care if they're looking for jobs, or their family is starving, if they are here illegally, then they should be treated like what they are; Criminals.

The White Race, has always endeavored to bring the latest technologies, knowledge, and political ideas to the other races.

The White Race has made advances in scientific, medical, and mathematical fields that cannot be surpassed.

The White Race tried to help the other races to build, tried to bring education, and look what happened.

Absolutely nothing. The middle east: Arabs, Persians, and Pashtuns run around blowing everything up.

Asia: Communist Dictatorships and caste system governments dot the land.

South America: Poverty, sex-slave trafficking, out of control drugs, starving people everywhere, corrupt politicians.

Now tell me, where in Sweden does this happen? Where the immigrants go.

Where in Germany? where the immigrants go.

Where in Norway? Where the immigrants go.

That's a fact. And that is the problem. Germany isn't the problem, Sweden isn't, Norway isn't, it's the immigrants.

We've been patient, tried to accept others, but we don't get any appreciation for us letting them seek a better life. If they can't play by the rules, then they can go back.

There's no reason to let them stay, if all they're going to do is commit crimes, because that IS ALL THEY DO.

Müde von ihnen.
Sie stehlen.
Sie vergewaltigen.
Sie bringen illegale Drogen.

Tired of being hated throughout the world for being white, tired of being oppressed by these foreigners that come into the Rheinlande and try to change everything.

Don't you get it?

Don't you dare call me a racist, you do not know me personally and have no idea what I have done before.

Simply because of my blonde hair, blue eyes, and Nordic-Aryan physique people hate me. THAT is racism.

I rest my case.

[dogukan]

Typical, and expected behavior. Cursing, insulting, emotions all over the place. Crying about food stamps, looking for pity. All you do is prove what I believe to be correct.

Illegal immigrants, are just that. ILLEGAL. And should be thrown out as soon as soon as they're caught. I don't care if they're looking for jobs, or their family is starving, if they are here illegally, then they should be treated like what they are; Criminals.

The White Race, has always endeavored to bring the latest technologies, knowledge, and political ideas to the other races.

The White Race has made advances in scientific, medical, and mathematical fields that cannot be surpassed.

The White Race tried to help the other races to build, tried to bring education, and look what happened.

Absolutely nothing. The middle east: Arabs, Persians, and Pashtuns run around blowing everything up.

Asia: Communist Dictatorships and caste system governments dot the land.

South America: Poverty, sex-slave trafficking, out of control drugs, starving people everywhere, corrupt politicians.

Now tell me, where in Sweden does this happen? Where the immigrants go.

Where in Germany? where the immigrants go.

Where in Norway? Where the immigrants go.

That's a fact. And that is the problem. Germany isn't the problem, Sweden isn't, Norway isn't, it's the immigrants.

We've been patient, tried to accept others, but we don't get any appreciation for us letting them seek a better life. If they can't play by the rules, then they can go back.

There's no reason to let them stay, if all they're going to do is commit crimes, because that IS ALL THEY DO.

Müde von ihnen.
Sie stehlen.
Sie vergewaltigen.
Sie bringen illegale Drogen.

Tired of being hated throughout the world for being white, tired of being oppressed by these foreigners that come into the Rheinlande and try to change everything.

Don't you get it?

Don't you dare call me a racist, you do not know me personally and have no idea what I have done before.

Simply because of my blonde hair, blue eyes, and Nordic-Aryan physique people hate me. THAT is racism.

To be honest mate, technically, if you base any arguements on the concept of a certain "race" as if it is a "collective" entity, you are a racist.
Saying Chinese are supersmart at maths is as racist as saying Arabs blow **** up.

[Cor De Ferrum]

I rest my case.

Prove what I have said is wrong.

[Cor De Ferrum]

To be honest mate, technically, if you base any arguements on the concept of a certain "race" as if it is a "collective" entity, you are a racist.
Saying Chinese are supersmart at maths is as racist as saying Arabs blow **** up.

Look at Africa.

Look at South and Central America.

Look at Asia.

Now look at Europe. See the difference?

[empr guy]

Prove what I have said is wrong.

well the part about how all immigrants do is commit crime is wrong for starters. Also this "superior white race" which you keep talking about can be immigrants themselves, so I'm guessing only the brown people are criminals too?

the "tired of them, all they do is still rape and bring illegal drugs" is also blatantly false, and at the very best only discriminatory.

And I hope i'm not the only one who see's the irony in

. Because I have blonde hair, blue eyes and a Nordic physique, people automatically assume I find Negros and others inferior and that I presume to be better than anyone else.

followed by

The White Race, has always endeavored to bring the latest technologies, knowledge, and political ideas to the other races.

The White Race has made advances in scientific, medical, and mathematical fields that cannot be surpassed.

The White Race tried to help the other races to build, tried to bring education, and look what happened.

Absolutely nothing. The middle east: Arabs, Persians, and Pashtuns run around blowing everything up.

Asia: Communist Dictatorships and caste system governments dot the land.

South America: Poverty, sex-slave trafficking, out of control drugs, starving people everywhere, corrupt politicians.

.

"Oh man, i hate how everyone assumes since I'm white I think white people are better then everyone else, it's so unfair, also, white people are the only ones who can accomplish things"

[Slydessertfox]

Prove what I have said is wrong.

That would require you to prove what you said is right. You are the one making all those assertions. This is almost the same as a fundamentalist asking an atheist to prove God doesn't exist.

[Cor De Ferrum]

well the part about how all immigrants do is commit crime is wrong for starters. Also this "superior white race" which you keep talking about can be immigrants themselves, so I'm guessing only the brown people are criminals too?

the "tired of them, all they do is still rape and bring illegal drugs" is also blatantly false, and at the very best only discriminatory.

And I hope i'm not the only one who see's the irony in




followed by

.

"Oh man, i hate how everyone assumes since I'm white I think white people are better then everyone else, it's so unfair, also, white people are the only ones who can accomplish things"

Okay, but why is it that non-white nations are the least developed?