Page 7 of 14 FirstFirst 1234567891011121314 LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 276

Thread: What's so bad about socialism?

  1. #121

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Sorry, double post.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  2. #122
    xcorps's Avatar Praefectus
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Missouri, US
    Posts
    6,916

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lupus Wolfram Tungsten View Post
    Agreed.


    Setting a minimum wage does not equal subsidizing citizens. Also, a house, heating, a vehicle, insurance, etc. etc. are not comforts but needs.
    Yes it does, by proxy. By forcing a private company to pay a wage that exceeds what its real value is, the government is subsidizing 1.7 million earners.
    A vehicle, house, and insurance are not required to live.
    "Every idea is an incitement. It offers itself for belief and if believed it is acted on unless some other belief outweighs it or some failure of energy stifles the movement at its birth. The only difference between the expression of an opinion and an incitement in the narrower sense is the speaker's enthusiasm for the result. Eloquence may set fire to reason." -Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

  3. #123
    Miles
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Oldest dutch city
    Posts
    361

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by xcorps View Post
    Yes it does, by proxy. By forcing a private company to pay a wage that exceeds what its real value is, the government is subsidizing 1.7 million earners.
    That is not a subsidy.

    A vehicle, house, and insurance are not required to live.
    I see you wish to live in a society in which the working class lives in the street and has no access to health care. It is indeed a good solution for the vehicle problem, as people can simply sleep in their job's street, and they won't need an insurance for fire either.
    God loves me, and He's monogamous. || Improve the world, start with yourself.

  4. #124
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    2,616

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    dude ,your point of view is good one to bad most of the people dont have it. Seem like John Lennon song "Imagine" lyric. anyway Russian already try socialism and you see it didnt work out,China too during Mao Ze Dong era. Did they didnt share the food ??? Yes they share. And still i didnt enough.
    Modding is like accursed wine, you try a sip and you ended empty the whole glass
    Under Proud Patronage of Shankbot de Bodemloze

  5. #125

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by junaidi83 View Post
    dude ,your point of view is good one to bad most of the people dont have it. Seem like John Lennon song "Imagine" lyric. anyway Russian already try socialism and you see it didnt work out,China too during Mao Ze Dong era. Did they didnt share the food ??? Yes they share. And still i didnt enough.
    Well communism and socialism aren't exactly the same thing, and typically when people talk about societal "sharing", they aren't talking about completely equitable resource distribution, just something that isn't as horribly warped as it is in the current market system.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  6. #126

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    It's unfortunate that so many are falsely conditioned to believe that totalitarianism or communism are somehow synonymous with socialism. There are so many unfortunate and weak-minded individuals behaving like trained animals, constantly shouting of "freedom" and realizing they have none, nor will they ever.

    It is my view that socialism is the most desirable and pursuit-of-happiness-conductive middle road between highly-repressive communism and highly-repressive capitalism.

  7. #127

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragus View Post
    It's unfortunate that so many are falsely conditioned to believe that totalitarianism or communism are somehow synonymous with socialism. There are so many unfortunate and weak-minded individuals behaving like trained animals, constantly shouting of "freedom" and realizing they have none, nor will they ever.

    It is my view that socialism is the most desirable and pursuit-of-happiness-conductive middle road between highly-repressive communism and highly-repressive capitalism.

    But how will people trade goods, property, and services if not by force in a truly socialist state? There is no option but to be repressive if the government is to maintain order. Forcing people to take part in a collectivist society whether it be against their will or otherwise is not freedom, it's oppression.

    Secondly, repression is impossible in a truly capitalist society simply because the state isn't powerful enough. The examples of a "capitalist society gone rogue" are generally mis-named corporate failures, which are not capitalist in any shape or form.


    "Weapons of war have no place on American streets." (President Barack Obama), which is why the DHS needs 1.6 Billion rounds of ammunition, 7000 MRAPs to be delivered by 2014, and one M-16 per agent.

  8. #128

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rights of the Individual View Post
    But how will people trade goods, property, and services if not by force in a truly socialist state? There is no option but to be repressive if the government is to maintain order. Forcing people to take part in a collectivist society whether it be against their will or otherwise is not freedom, it's oppression.
    My guess for the same exact reasons as in every other society.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rights of the Individual View Post
    Secondly, repression is impossible in a truly capitalist society simply because the state isn't powerful enough. The examples of a "capitalist society gone rogue" are generally mis-named corporate failures, which are not capitalist in any shape or form.
    Capitalism has nothing to do with a government system and doesn't dictate what government system is "compatible" with it. Capitalism is just an economic system.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  9. #129

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lupus Wolfram Tungsten View Post
    For some jobs, a vehicle is necessary because of their location (construction workers, people who have a job at multiple locations, etc.).
    That doesn't make the vehicle a need that should be subsidized by the government though. A need is something that you literally can not live without. You can live without a vehicle. You are restricted in what jobs you can take, but that still does not qualify a vehicle as a necessity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lupus Wolfram Tungsten View Post
    Maybe in your country, health care is for free, but here we need an insurance.
    Nope, health care isn't free in Australia either. But that doesn't make health care a necessity. Again, a need - something absolutely essential to survival that no human being could possibly live without. There are humans who live without health insurance or healthcare just fine. Again, it's far riskier but it isn't essential to your survival, which means it's not a need.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Brian de Bois-Guilbert View Post
    the Church has only improved mankind in history

    For this there are words, but none that abide by the ToS.

  10. #130

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by xcorps View Post
    Yes it does, by proxy. By forcing a private company to pay a wage that exceeds what its real value is, the government is subsidizing 1.7 million earners.
    A vehicle, house, and insurance are not required to live.
    What's wrong with subjectively deciding the results of the market aren't moral, and that some people deserve to be have more money and others less?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rights of the Individual View Post
    Secondly, repression is impossible in a truly capitalist society simply because the state isn't powerful enough. The examples of a "capitalist society gone rogue" are generally mis-named corporate failures, which are not capitalist in any shape or form.
    But non-state actors certainly are.


    These protesters were murdered on behalf of Shell in 1995.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Saro-Wiwa
    Last edited by removeduser_4536284751384; March 09, 2013 at 05:38 PM.

  11. #131

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by xcorps View Post
    Yes it does, by proxy. By forcing a private company to pay a wage that exceeds what its real value is, the government is subsidizing 1.7 million earners. A vehicle, house, and insurance are not required to live.
    If a company is only able to make profit by not providing its workers with a decent wage, enough to cover their needs, it shouldn't even ****ing exist.

    I don't know if you 've been living in a cave, but a house IS required to live. Not merely survive the harsh elements, but actually live. We are at the apogee of our civilisation and yet the poor are multiplying, while in just 4 years the combined wealth of the Forbes 500 increased from $2.4 trillion to $5.4 trillion. Something IS ****ing broken.

    Hellenic Air Force - Death, Destruction and Mayhem!

  12. #132

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mythos View Post
    If a company is only able to make profit by not providing its workers with a decent wage, enough to cover their needs, it shouldn't even ****ing exist.
    Nobody is arguing this point. The point of contention is what exactly are "needs".

    Quote Originally Posted by Mythos View Post
    I don't know if you 've been living in a cave, but a house IS required to live.
    The way you phrase it, I take this to mean "own your own home". This is not a need, it is a desire. The need is shelter and you don't need to own a home to satisfy that need. You can rent apartments, apply for government housing etc. Forcing a company to pay someone enough to pay off their mortgage is indeed subsidization.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Brian de Bois-Guilbert View Post
    the Church has only improved mankind in history

    For this there are words, but none that abide by the ToS.

  13. #133
    Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Planet Ape
    Posts
    14,786

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Well. I think its very wonderous that these market-fundamentalists are being so fundemental when there really isnt a free-market to be fundamental about, all while there is a very rigged market increasingly rearing its ugly head.

    Why the hell would anyone just accept your nonsense as a given?

    The market is all what we make it to be. Either driven by good intent for as many as possible by consious decision and checks and balances, or lead by this individualist religious doctrine "that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone".

    Which is actually just oligarchy when you take into account the trans-national overarching power that is the finance-capital in the hands of these wicked men.
    Last edited by Thorn777; March 10, 2013 at 06:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  14. #134
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Newcastle, England
    Posts
    24,462

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    Well. I think its very wonderous that these market-fundamentalists are being so fundemental when there really isnt a free-market to be fundamental about, all while there is a very rigged market increasingly rearing its ugly head.

    Why the hell would anyone just accept your nonsense as a given?

    The market is all what we make it to be. Either driven by good intent for as many as possible by consious decision and checks and balances, or lead by this individualist religious doctrine "that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone".

    Which is actually just oligarchy when you take into account the trans-national overarching power that is the finance-capital in the hands of these wicked men.
    Who has wonderful faith in free markets right now? I've heard a lot of free market proponents criticising the lack of freedom and the evil of influence. Now argue against what they actually say by all means or keep fighting your phantoms.

    Thorn. Always fighting phantoms.

  15. #135

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Who has wonderful faith in free markets right now? I've heard a lot of free market proponents criticising the lack of freedom and the evil of influence. Now argue against what they actually say by all means or keep fighting your phantoms.

    Thorn. Always fighting phantoms.
    I agree he is kinda shouting at the wind right now, but to be fair, there are a few on this board who support a completely free, or nearly completely free, market unfettered by any rules.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  16. #136
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    🏡🐰🐿️🐴🌳
    Posts
    10,931

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by irelandeb View Post
    What's wrong with subjectively deciding the results of the market aren't moral, and that some people deserve to be have more money and others less?
    What's moral or immoral about the results of market? And how can you decide which people deserve to have more and how much more they deserve?

  17. #137
    Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Planet Ape
    Posts
    14,786

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Who has wonderful faith in free markets right now? I've heard a lot of free market proponents criticising the lack of freedom and the evil of influence. Now argue against what they actually say by all means or keep fighting your phantoms.

    Thorn. Always fighting phantoms.
    And then your new found faith is actually worse and more stupid from a popular perspective. Its just neo-liberalism. At least the libertarians got some game-changers in stall, which wont happen, but at least they got an idea about some of the bad things. Still issue lemmings though...wasted energy better used elsewhere while on certain issues delivering the popular support needed for the plutocratic issues.

    The guys from your new found faith are to me quite mysterious that I can only explain doing the outsourcing, privatization, and derugaltion jingoism, in that they dont want to change to a quasi dying out camp that feeds of people feeling the pain again(but growing in the GIIPS again) instead of being portrayed as a trendy and intellectual way to keep on believing in all those things you believed in pre 2008.

    God forbid ever giving in to, or even worse changing the camp, to those godawful naive hippies and violent socialists.
    Last edited by Thorn777; March 11, 2013 at 12:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  18. #138
    Ciciro's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    The Capital
    Posts
    4,038

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rights of the Individual View Post

    As far as racism and such goes, may I remind you that Hitler was a Socialist. .
    Hitler was not a socialist, in fact Hitler had little to no experience with business so he pretty much let big businesses do their own thing.
    Last edited by Ciciro; March 11, 2013 at 12:37 PM.

  19. #139
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Newcastle, England
    Posts
    24,462

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    I agree he is kinda shouting at the wind right now, but to be fair, there are a few on this board who support a completely free, or nearly completely free, market unfettered by any rules.
    Not even pure anarcho capitalists truly support unfettered, it is simply exchanging one form of regulation for another (whether that is workable or not is a debate for another time and not one I can answer). I think there is a big difference between pro market and pro business. I'm not sure that you can be anything but pro business and special interests to want absolutely no arbitration between the market and the consumer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    And then your new found faith is actually worse and more stupid from a popular perspective. Its just neo-liberalism. At least the libertarians got some game-changers in stall, which wont happen, but at least they got an idea about some of the bad things. Still issue lemmings though...wasted energy better used elsewhere while on certain issues delivering the popular support needed for the plutocratic issues.

    The guys from your new found faith are to me quite mysterious that I can only explain doing the outsourcing, privatization, and derugaltion jingoism, in that they dont want to change to a quasi dying out camp that feeds of people feeling the pain again(but growing in the GIIPS again) instead of being portrayed as a trendy and intellectual way to keep on believing in all those things you believed in pre 2008.

    God forbid ever giving in to, or even worse changing the camp, to those godawful naive hippies and violent socialists.
    I have absolutely no idea whats in that pipe of yours but I'd like some. I keep asking for a translator to help me get what you are trying to say but no one ever comes forward.

  20. #140
    Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Planet Ape
    Posts
    14,786

    Default Re: What's so bad about socialism?

    Hiding behind the pop-opinion others might have as well. How intellectual and daring. And its FREE!

    But essentially in your response to Spartan you agree with the post of mine you originally responded to. You just think doing wicked in coalition with govt produces non-wicked outcomes. And that my friend, is effective marketing.

    But OK, let me not be as harsch and call your ideas neo-liberal, or neo-Thatcherite. Thats running out of fashion lately and has so much stinking old stigma. Maybe a bit Avant Garde but maybe Fascist gets trendy again, or how about that VOC Mentality? I know GB had the same thing in the East-India-Company. Perfect merge of state and corporate powers doing them wicked things and being all fancy about themselves and the markets they created.

    Real wealth creators that make people like Nial Ferguson proud about who they are. That seems trendy. Go with that. Never give in to all that fail you supported over all these years. Just put on a new suit and demand more of it.
    Last edited by Thorn777; March 11, 2013 at 02:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •