Finally... True Line of Sight! Been wanting this in TW for over a decade :D

[Serkelet]

BTW, the spanish edition of a game magazine has stated that you can still view your troops in the default eagle eye view. However, if they don't see an enemy unit, the player cannot see it. So in a way enemy units may "pop out of nowhere" if your units don't have a line of sight to the enemy unit. Furthermore, on the highest difficulty enemy units will not appear on the minimap. At all. Now, this may be just in the historical battle of Teutoberg, the map of which is shown, but I think it will be a general feature. So maybe on easiest you will still be able to see enemy units, despite the LoS.

Sounds great. Can't wait to play this game, tbh.

[scivian]

One thing I did not like before was if a unit was looking forward, it would not see a unit like cavalry attacking from behind, even if they were not in battle and would easily be able to hear far ahead of time, not to mention a few of the individuals would have been looking around.

Does this LOS change effect this issue at all?

[Shigawire]

One thing I did not like before was if a unit was looking forward, it would not see a unit like cavalry attacking from behind, even if they were not in battle and would easily be able to hear far ahead of time, not to mention a few of the individuals would have been looking around.

Does this LOS change effect this issue at all?

I'm not even sure if you understand what LOS means in this context you are conveying. In previous TW games, the units' "vision" is neither here nor there. How could you tell your units could not "see" behind? Because they don't rotate their unit to face the enemy fast enough? In previous TW games, the player sees -all- units, except the hidden enemy units. Your own units would also let you know they worried when they are flanked ("Worried about flanks" unit status). So in that sense, they did see around themselves.

In this new LOS system, the enemy units that you the player see, are the same your own units see from their various vantage points. Whenever geometry blocks the eyes of your soldiers, anyone behind that geometry becomes "hidden." Think "fog of war" from regular RTS games like Dune 2 or Command & Conquer. Constantly updating depending on how much you can see. Except in this case, the viewing range will be unlimited -except- occasionally occluded by topography, geometry.. and maybe even meteorology. The terrain will not necessarily be discolored as in regular Fog of War, but the units in those areas occluded will be hidden.

I do hope that aural presence will be used. A crowd of men and hooves can be very loud.

[Ballacraine]

......
I do hope that aural presence will be used. A crowd of men and hooves can be very loud.

That would be useful, but would have to depend on the environmental situation.
If you are in the heat of a big noisy melee, you may not hear charging cavalry until it is too late.

Balla

[Jester]

i think this is great from a gameplay point of view. on the other hand though i really loved to watch 2 huge armies and their enormous battlelines marching up to each other, seeing the enemies flags in the distance, their cavalry swarming out...

it s a sight only TW can give you and it never gets old


so, i hope this line of sight isnt too strict so it doesnt look like you re fighting against a ghost army which pops up and disappears again. that would look stupid

[EmperorBatman999]

I would also assume that generals would have knowledge about the broad area the enemy most likely is. Remember that there are other senses too besides eyesight. The footsteps of hundreds can probably be heard before the men are seen, and perhaps even the enemy has a smell? I recall reading in the Sharpe novels British soldiers being able to tell if French cavalry was close by smelling the strong stench of saddle sores.

[MrOuija]

i think this is great from a gameplay point of view. on the other hand though i really loved to watch 2 huge armies and their enormous battlelines marching up to each other, seeing the enemies flags in the distance, their cavalry swarming out...

it s a sight only TW can give you and it never gets old


so, i hope this line of sight isnt too strict so it doesnt look like you re fighting against a ghost army which pops up and disappears again. that would look stupid

As long as you're on relatively flat terrain with a long line of sight I don't see why that would change at all. Now if there's a mountain between the two armies then you won't be.

[Jack Lusted]

Proper line of sight is something we have wanted to include in Total War games for a long time, and now with Rome II advances in tech have allowed us to do it.

This means that units can now be hidden behind hills, or behind large buildings unless another unit can see them from a different angle or gets close enough.

It’s important to point out here that the system is still being worked on and experimented with, but the below should help explain it more.

On open ground units will be able to see for a long way, no units popping into existence as they start to fire on you. Hills and buildings will block line of sight but below a certain distance units behind hills and walls will become visible (this is to represent the noise a unit would make that would be audible).

It works much the same as hiding in woods does now, just extended to include other terrain features. Units that are hidden from you will not show up on the tactical map just as hidden units in Shogun 2 do not show up on the radar map until they have been spotted.

We’ve wanted to implement this for a long time as it allows for more tactical possibilities on the battlefield. Now you can hide units behind that big hill and try and surprise your enemies, or use tall buildings in settlements to mask a flanking move by some of your forces. The AI will be aware of this system and will be able to deal with it. Remember it will know how many units you started the battle with so will know if you have some hidden based on how many it can see.

This line of sight system is an evolution and addition to how hiding has worked in Total War games for a long time, taking it further to add more depth to the battlefield.

[torongill]

I hadn't really thought about the implications for city sieges, which seem to be even more extensive... Wow! Thank you for the explanation

[weirdoascensor]

Could an Unit be Hidden behind other Units? Like in Pharsalus, where Caesar Hid Infantry behind Cavalry.

[Påsan]

Proper line of sight is something we have wanted to include in Total War games for a long time, and now with Rome II advances in tech have allowed us to do it.

This means that units can now be hidden behind hills, or behind large buildings unless another unit can see them from a different angle or gets close enough.

It’s important to point out here that the system is still being worked on and experimented with, but the below should help explain it more.

On open ground units will be able to see for a long way, no units popping into existence as they start to fire on you. Hills and buildings will block line of sight but below a certain distance units behind hills and walls will become visible (this is to represent the noise a unit would make that would be audible).

It works much the same as hiding in woods does now, just extended to include other terrain features. Units that are hidden from you will not show up on the tactical map just as hidden units in Shogun 2 do not show up on the radar map until they have been spotted.

We’ve wanted to implement this for a long time as it allows for more tactical possibilities on the battlefield. Now you can hide units behind that big hill and try and surprise your enemies, or use tall buildings in settlements to mask a flanking move by some of your forces. The AI will be aware of this system and will be able to deal with it. Remember it will know how many units you started the battle with so will know if you have some hidden based on how many it can see.

This line of sight system is an evolution and addition to how hiding has worked in Total War games for a long time, taking it further to add more depth to the battlefield.

It is probably too much to hope for, but a natural part of this would be the ability to send out light cavalry scouts to do reconnaissance missions. It is a weak general who blunders blindly into rugged terrain without having it scouted first. :

[torongill]

I certainly hope infantry could be hidden behind cavalry and even horse cavalry could be hidden behind phalanxes(those long sarissas would be able to mask up to elephants ), but this might be moddable. But even if it isn't, some units would be able to hide in tall grass, etc. That would enable the Pharsalus scenario to function.

As for scouting with light cavalry, this should be possible to do on the campaign map and also on the battle map.

[Lockcaps]

Will this "reveal distance" be different depending on what unit it is? I'd imagine lightly armored barbarians wouldn't make as much noise as legionnaires wearing chainmail.

[Charsi]

You fail to see the big picture: it's not just that units can hide behind hills and forests. They can also hide behind walls. Archers won't be able to shoot against garrisoned units with milimetrical accuracy anymore, because they won't see them. The way you will approach almost every situation will change. It's not a "little change".

It's not that I didn't see it, I just didn't enumerate every possible situation. Of course I realize you won't see units hiding behind walls or buildings. I see this as a good thing. So my approach to battles will have to change - you mean, get more complex than walk Bow Ashigaru up to a lightly defended yet very ornate looking fort, ignore the towers and make pincushions out of Samurai Retainers? Yes, please.

Jack Lusted's response just tells me that yes, it's extending what we already know about forests to terrain and buildings. Again, I see that as a good thing.

[Shigawire]

Proper line of sight is something we have wanted to include in Total War games for a long time, and now with Rome II advances in tech have allowed us to do it.

This means that units can now be hidden behind hills, or behind large buildings unless another unit can see them from a different angle or gets close enough.

It’s important to point out here that the system is still being worked on and experimented with, but the below should help explain it more.

On open ground units will be able to see for a long way, no units popping into existence as they start to fire on you. Hills and buildings will block line of sight but below a certain distance units behind hills and walls will become visible (this is to represent the noise a unit would make that would be audible).

It works much the same as hiding in woods does now, just extended to include other terrain features. Units that are hidden from you will not show up on the tactical map just as hidden units in Shogun 2 do not show up on the radar map until they have been spotted.

We’ve wanted to implement this for a long time as it allows for more tactical possibilities on the battlefield. Now you can hide units behind that big hill and try and surprise your enemies, or use tall buildings in settlements to mask a flanking move by some of your forces. The AI will be aware of this system and will be able to deal with it. Remember it will know how many units you started the battle with so will know if you have some hidden based on how many it can see.

This line of sight system is an evolution and addition to how hiding has worked in Total War games for a long time, taking it further to add more depth to the battlefield.

Thanks so much for the extra details. I love this. So, the units that are close enough will be spotted regardless if they are behind a wall - due to the sounds emanating. Logical step that.

[Durnaug]

I look forward to reading all the moans about having to "march all over the map looking for the camping AI". Unless CA induce the AI to somehow reveal itself at some point? Don't forget that the battlemaps will be huge. I'm not getting into a flame war over this, just pointing out what seems obvious to me.

[PaarseBanaan]

i would like it to be an option so that players that like to see all the units on the map, including those of the enemy, dont have to play with this.

[Anna_Gein]

A little bit surprised by the latest news this one being one among others. But it seems this one is serious since Jack Lusted explained it. Good development. It could be very fun in massive battle map. Finally some work to do for light cavalry. Keep the good work gentlemen.

I look forward to reading all the moans about having to "march all over the map looking for the camping AI". Unless CA induce the AI to somehow reveal itself at some point? Don't forget that the battlemaps will be huge. I'm not getting into a flame war over this, just pointing out what seems obvious to me.

It will probably be avoided by the camp capture point system.

[Serkelet]

I look forward to reading all the moans about having to "march all over the map looking for the camping AI". Unless CA induce the AI to somehow reveal itself at some point? Don't forget that the battlemaps will be huge. I'm not getting into a flame war over this, just pointing out what seems obvious to me.

If the AI is hiding camping somewhere in the map, just march over their starting area to conquer it. Of course you can expose yourself to an ambush by doing so; that's a good reason to also use scouts in battle!

[Greatonesh]

Well I think it means that you can only see what your units has "reported" to you. Which means, if none of your units see it, you dont either I think it could be a great feature

far as i know the player at the gameplay cartage siege was absorbing the battle like god