Finally... True Line of Sight! Been wanting this in TW for over a decade :D

[Glatisant]

Armies consist of up to 40 unit cards.

Nice, I just started reading up on all the information and have not read this bit. I sincerely hope that Rome2 can intrique me more than the last couple of Total wars. Alltough I bought them all, M2TW was the last version I played longer than a month.

[Shigawire]

For the first thing, are you serious? The only thing I've heard like that is for sieges. If what you say is true, then I am really no longer looking forward to Rome 2. And that doesn't really solve any of the arguments I have against the LOS system they are referring to. You would still need to waste an entire unit on scouting, the AI would still probably not handle it correctly, etc.

Then prepare to be disappointed.

- You don't have to kill everyone in battles anymore, but you're able to defeat the enemy by holding victory points (in cities) or their base camp (in field battles).


I don't consider having a light cavalry as "wasted." Historically they weren't just good for scouting. They were crucial in harassing and causing stress on the enemy army integrity, and of course chasing down those of the enemy who retreated in battle.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Then prepare to be disappointed.

- You don't have to kill everyone in battles anymore, but you're able to defeat the enemy by holding victory points (in cities) or their base camp (in field battles).


I don't consider having a light cavalry as "wasted." Historically they weren't just good for scouting. They were crucial in harassing and causing stress on the enemy army integrity, and of course chasing down those of the enemy who retreated in battle.

That's completely asinine. How on Earth does holding a fort magically make the enemy lose the battle? The point of every battle ever has been to drive the enemy off the field, in 90% of cases by causing them to rout, or retreat. This takes all of the fun out of Total War battles! There's no way they can do this without having fixed maps, like the siege maps for Shogun 2. I can't believe they would do that. Source?

Damnit, and I was so excited for this game...

I wasn't talking about light cavalry. You have to waste a unit scouting, or sitting on a hill doing nothing but observing. You could use that unit for actual fighting instead, but if there is a hill, it would be stupid not to take advantage of the LOS bonus that would give. And since you can't just have a couple of men do that, you'd have to dedicate an entire army unit to do so.

[Shigawire]

I wasn't talking about light cavalry. You have to waste a unit scouting, or sitting on a hill doing nothing but observing. You could use that unit for actual fighting instead, but if there is a hill, it would be stupid not to take advantage of the LOS bonus that would give. And since you can't just have a couple of men do that, you'd have to dedicate an entire army unit to do so.

I don't think there is any particular "bonus" from having LOS beyond a hill, other than the comfort in knowing. You don't have to know the entire map like a satellite view. You may just have to use intuition and keep your army together. Walking on the areas least susceptible to ambush. Sometimes sending out a scout ahead of your army, then send him back to the army. Simply "not knowing" will be a new facet of tactical decision making. "Fog of War" will get a new meaning. Mobility and maneouvering will become much more interesting, and portrayed more accurately. I've always wanted to experience at least SOME of the tactics of Quinctus Fabius Maximus in these games. This will be the first time we can do such a thing.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

I don't think there is any particular "bonus" from having LOS beyond a hill, other than the comfort in knowing. You don't have to know the entire map like a satellite view. You may just have to use intuition and keep your army together. Walking on the areas least susceptible to ambush. Sometimes sending out a scout ahead of your army, then send him back to the army. Simply "not knowing" will be a new facet of tactical decision making. "Fog of War" will get a new meaning. Mobility and maneouvering will become much more interesting, and portrayed more accurately. I've always wanted to experience at least SOME of the tactics of Quinctus Fabius Maximus in these games. This will be the first time we can do such a thing.

The "Bonus" would be seeing the enemy's movements. "Not knowing" will be a part of decision making only if you allow it to. The only reason not to use the unit to observe is if you wanted to use it to fight, but that would be a waste. The advantage of being able to see all of the enemy's moves, while they cannot see yours, would far outweigh it's usefulness as a combat unit. Which is really stupid.

But again, as I said, all of that will only matter in multiplayer. Because as soon as you know how the AI is, you will be able to anticipate it. And could just advance in a big block and it would make no difference, as you would know where the AI was. It would just be invisible until you got close enough to see it.

[T-Duke]

True light of sight, army's behaviour, map victory points , army traditions, usuful tactical map... am I dreaming? What's going on with CA ?

[Ritterlichvon86]

For the first thing, are you serious? The only thing I've heard like that is for sieges. If what you say is true, then I am really no longer looking forward to Rome 2. And that doesn't really solve any of the arguments I have against the LOS system they are referring to. You would still need to waste an entire unit on scouting, the AI would still probably not handle it correctly, etc.

As for the 40 unit cards thing, as far as I know, that only pertains to reinforcements. Unless we've gotten some new information recently?

This is ALL information from Gamestar, just like the "300 years campaign" thing. And information from Gamestar should always be taken with a grain of salt. Don't forfeit neither hopes nor dreams my friend. It might as well be a bunch of poodle sh't.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

This is ALL information from Gamestar, just like the "300 years campaign" thing. And information from Gamestar should always be taken with a grain of salt. Don't forfeit neither hopes nor dreams my friend. It might as well be a bunch of poodle sh't.

Oh thank goodness.

I will, of course, wait for CA to confirm or deny it. But I honestly cannot believe that CA would so drastically change the game. These would be incredibly huge changes to game play, unlike anything that had come before.

[Eofor]

How is this realistic?

Because in real life terrain tends to obscure your view and you can't see everything.

Who uses an entire group of 200 legionaries to scout a group of trees?

Players who are either completely incompetent or have no grasp of history. Good players will use light infantry and cavalry to scout.
I agree that CA could screw this up (IE the AI knows where your troops are regardless of whether or not your troops are obscured) but this sounds like a really interesting feature. Battles will consist of more than just marching straight at the enemy and light units will finally be useful.

[PlPs]

wow! sounds great! +rep for good news

[MagicCuboid]

I feel like all this feature would do is increase the amount of time I spent microing my army around the field before engaging in the battle... and I already spend probably half the real time of battle doing that, even with 6x speed on. :\

[torongill]

That's completely asinine. How on Earth does holding a fort magically make the enemy lose the battle? The point of every battle ever has been to drive the enemy off the field, in 90% of cases by causing them to rout, or retreat. This takes all of the fun out of Total War battles! There's no way they can do this without having fixed maps, like the siege maps for Shogun 2. I can't believe they would do that. Source?

Damnit, and I was so excited for this game...

I wasn't talking about light cavalry. You have to waste a unit scouting, or sitting on a hill doing nothing but observing. You could use that unit for actual fighting instead, but if there is a hill, it would be stupid not to take advantage of the LOS bonus that would give. And since you can't just have a couple of men do that, you'd have to dedicate an entire army unit to do so.

First of all, holding the enemy fort/camp/supply base makes them vulnerable to attacks.
Second, in many, many cases from history breaking taking the enemy camp, with all the stored plunder, supplies and personal belongings of the army made that army break ranks and run back. They are just adding the option of doing it. Second, driving the enemy off the field could be done also by capturing their water source, harassing their forage parties, intercepting their supplies and reinforcements, etc. As one Marine general put it "Amateurs talk about tactics. Professionals study logistics."
Third, you can use your general for observations. That's the whole idea of Generals, they look, they see, they guide. using them to smash into an enemy cavalry is a waste and should be employed only in the direst of circumstances.

P.S. One major reason for Cannae was to drive Hannibal away from the grain depot and the grain fields around Cannae,which is why Hannibal went there in the first place - "My enemy cannot help but engage me, for I attack a position he must succor."

P.S.S. I hope for your own sake that you're trolling. Because otherwise it looks as though you're actually trying to convince yourself the game will suck. And from experience, bullheaded pessimism is bad for your health.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

I fail to see how this is in any way more realistic than what we had before.

First of all, no general would "see what the troops see", because they didn't have radio communications, datalinks and whatnot back then. Messages were carried by messengers, and an army committed for pitched battle was to a large extent out of the general's control besides the most basic of commands and observations.

Second, it ignores the fact that warfare doesn't consist of stacks of troops marching in isolation from battle A to battle B. Scouts and detachments were pretty much always fanned out around any kind of major marching force. In the relatively rare occasions when two field armies faced each other directly on the battlefield, it's very unlikely they wouldn't have a pretty clear idea of what they were facing - unless outmaneuvered and surprised.

Finally, this is going to be horrid from a gameplay perspective.

[panzerschreck]

it's good if it is not the same thing as fog of war. With fog of war, you are on a flat battlefield, there is a big regiment in front of you , 500 meters in front of you, and you don't see it! Unrealistic!
Besides I like to see the ennemy's armies,I don't know exactly what it will look like now...

I would prefer that as an option if I don't like it. Imagine in a big map the time you can loose to find a hidden survival unit...

[torongill]

Yeah, but total annihilation of the enemy is no longer required for victory. You can achieve it also by capturing the enemy camp.

[Raftor]

Interesting, though I'm kind of worried this will mean more of the annoying "I'm walking through forest so you can't see me lol"-dilemma that I had with Shogun II... the consequence being that archers become somewhat useless as soon as a couple of trees are nearby.

Not necessarely because if you send a scoot unit forward your archers units will be able to shoot.

[Evelien]

Awesome !

[Lavoie-Qc]

I feel like all this feature would do is increase the amount of time I spent microing my army around the field before engaging in the battle... and I already spend probably half the real time of battle doing that, even with 6x speed on. :\

Remember that in at least 80% of your battles you will not have to play with line of sight as the battlefields are mostly flat ground and the units will be able to see them all the time. Small hills are not so common, even less on historically chosen battlefields.

[Honorable Poncho]

Man that's great news. It'll really add some awesome intensity to the battles. Multiplayer will improve greatly with Los.

[CDR Hurricane]

So this thread has pretty much confirmed that I am going to base camp my supply train from now on. I don't want to march half way across the map just to have my enemy who cav spammed raid my base and auto-win the battle.