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Thread: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

  1. #1
    Blaze of Macedon's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    I love the Drwarves and how regular Dwarven Warriors can make minced meat from almost anythink thrown at them. Having a backbone of some 4-5 of 'em, and aadding a general or two, some Dale cave mercs, 2-3 axethrowers, 3-4 Iron Crossbows, some Halberdiers and 2 Balistas to my stacks pretty much won me the game (the tactical flexibility and the economy leading to a disturbing number of stacks of Rhun running around was a challange, but after a couple of costly field battle victories i figured i'd go at their throat and conquered city after city until i drained the last drop of blood... or last coin fo gold out of them).

    So i used very few elites in my campaign. The starting Dragonslayers got to 2 gold chevrons and then i left them Dains Halls until the place was upgraded to retrain 'em. The Vault Wardens i didn't find a use for, since i think Halberds to the job pretty well. The Iron Guards are badass but hard to retratrain, especially in Rhun.

    But when it comes to pure elites i think it all comes down to the Dragonslayers and the Guards of Khazad dum. I can't find the time to test this out so i gotta ask if someone has an idea - which one would be generally better and for what purpose? Both are extremly hard to retrain so just think in context of battling Mordor and Harad, since those are the only bad guys left on the block in my game...

  2. #2
    lolIsuck's Avatar WE HAVE NO CAKE?!
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    Code:
    type             Dragonslayers
    dictionary       Dragonslayers      ; Dragonslayers
    category         infantry
    class            heavy
    voice_type       Heavy
    banner faction   main_infantry
    banner holy      crusade
    soldier          dwarven_warriors, 60, 0, 2.0
    officer          dwarf_captain_early_flag
    mount_effect     elephant -4
    attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, very_hardy, can_withdraw, free_upkeep_unit
    formation        1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 4, square, shield_wall
    stat_health      1, 2
    stat_pri         8, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, blunt, mace, 25, 1
    stat_pri_attr    ap
    stat_sec         0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 0, 1
    stat_sec_attr    no
    stat_pri_armour  12, 2, 6, metal
    stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
    stat_heat        6
    stat_ground      0, -2, 0, 0
    stat_mental      16, impetuous, trained
    stat_charge_dist 15
    stat_fire_delay  0
    stat_food        60, 300
    stat_cost        1, 790, 320, 85, 85, 790, 2, 300
    armour_ug_levels 3, 4
    armour_ug_models khazad_dum, khazad_dum_upg
    ownership        moors
    era 0            moors
    era 1            moors
    era 2            moors
    recruit_priority_offset    15
    
    
    
    
    type             Khazad Guard
    dictionary       Khazad_Guard      ; Khazad Guard
    category         infantry
    class            heavy
    voice_type       Heavy
    banner faction   main_infantry
    banner holy      crusade
    soldier          khazad_guard, 60, 0, 2.0
    officer          dwarf_captain_early_flag
    mount_effect     elephant -4
    attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_withdraw, free_upkeep_unit
    formation        1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 4, square, shield_wall
    stat_health      1, 2
    stat_pri         7, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, blunt, mace, 25, 1
    stat_pri_attr    ap
    stat_sec         0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 0, 1
    stat_sec_attr    no
    stat_pri_armour  18, 3, 5, metal
    stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
    stat_heat        6
    stat_ground      0, -2, 0, 0
    stat_mental      19, disciplined, trained, lock_morale
    stat_charge_dist 15
    stat_fire_delay  0
    stat_food        60, 300
    stat_cost        1, 1200, 360, 100, 100, 1000, 1, 350
    armour_ug_levels 5
    armour_ug_models khazad_guard
    ownership        moors
    era 0            moors
    era 1            moors
    era 2            moors
    recruit_priority_offset    20
    The Dragonslayers have slightly better attack but the Guards of Khazad-Dum have way better defense and have locked morale. They cost way more too though, they're like the Smiths of Eregion of the Dwarves. Both will kick anything they encounter in the dark abbys of death so it's not really a problem which one to use although I think the Dragonslayers are more widely available.

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    Signifer
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    Both are great but dragon slayers are more avaliable..

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    Mhaedros's Avatar Brave Heart Tegan
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    Iron Guards are more available than both and they all have basically the same stats


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    Wolfeson's Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    Guards of KD are slightly better statistically, but Dragonslayers are your standard elite infantry available in any city with a high enough barracks. For your campaign, I think you'd have to go with Dragonslayers. I just don't think there's any way you could accumulate and maintain a sizeable force of Guards of KD all the way over in Rhun.

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    Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfeson View Post
    Guards of KD are slightly better statistically, but Dragonslayers are your standard elite infantry available in any city with a high enough barracks. For your campaign, I think you'd have to go with Dragonslayers. I just don't think there's any way you could accumulate and maintain a sizeable force of Guards of KD all the way over in Rhun.
    theyre not available in any city because they can only be trained in Dain's Halls or Wormcove

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    Blaze of Macedon's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mhaedros View Post
    Iron Guards are more available than both and they all have basically the same stats
    Iron Guards are the most widely available but they don't have AP attck (they wield swords, no axes).

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfeson View Post
    Guards of KD are slightly better statistically, but Dragonslayers are your standard elite infantry available in any city with a high enough barracks. For your campaign, I think you'd have to go with Dragonslayers. I just don't think there's any way you could accumulate and maintain a sizeable force of Guards of KD all the way over in Rhun.
    Either i've overlooked something or you're mistaken. Dragonslayers need 2nd highest barracks and the Grey Mountains to recruit. GM come down to the small town just north of Erebor and Dains Halls. The small town takes eons to grow so Dains Halls are the only real source of Dragonslayers...

    I think for fighting Harad i'll need more armor since they have a lot of light archers so GoKD and Iron Guards would be a better combo... And when i think about the AP attck won't do me any good vs Harad since their troops don't have that much armor...
    Last edited by Blaze of Macedon; February 24, 2013 at 05:38 AM.

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    Wolfeson's Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    I may well be mistaken then. Sorry.

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    LuckyPistol's Avatar Hastatus
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    Well the unit I fear the most when fighting against the dwarves are the GoKD, but I've seen the DS more often, so in this case the number of units shows their more usefulness
    But GoKD look more amazing

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    Munifex
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    Dragonslayers have very good stamina, Iron Guards and Guards of KD have only good stamina. All 3 units have good enough stats to get exhausted before taking huge casualities, the Dragonslayers simply can do more damage before they get exhaused and also refresh their stamina faster so I can use them again later in a battle (especially siege attacks). Therefore I prefer the Dragonslayers.

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    Mikail Mengsk's Avatar Sagittarius
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    Dragonslayers all the way. More available than GKD, total badass looks.
    It's only after you have lost everything, that you are free to do anything.

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    Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    GKD are better used as a unit of last resort. keep them in reserve until all else has failed and then send them in as a final gambit to turn the tide. in my experience Dragon Slayers are better at beefing up your main line, since they cost a lot less and can be acquired much more easily (referring to recruitment and acquisition time as opposed to availability).

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    knight of meh's Avatar roghnaithe sciathán bán
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nastrael View Post
    GKD are better used as a unit of last resort. keep them in reserve until all else has failed and then send them in as a final gambit to turn the tide. in my experience Dragon Slayers are better at beefing up your main line, since they cost a lot less and can be acquired much more easily (referring to recruitment and acquisition time as opposed to availability).
    really? in my experience the dragonslayers die much more slowly so placing them on the flanks or in the line and they perform much better than GKD and honestly the hammerers of gundabad are a much more promising last ditch turn the tide unit ... if i use the the GKD i usually use them as there name suggests as guards of KD incase i need my elites elsewhere

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    Blaze of Macedon's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    Lol i think i'm gonna have to test this one out

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    Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    Quote Originally Posted by knight of meh View Post
    really? in my experience the dragonslayers die much more slowly so placing them on the flanks or in the line and they perform much better than GKD and honestly the hammerers of gundabad are a much more promising last ditch turn the tide unit ... if i use the the GKD i usually use them as there name suggests as guards of KD incase i need my elites elsewhere
    if you don't have MOS how are you supposed to get hammers? :p

  16. #16
    Mhaedros's Avatar Brave Heart Tegan
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    My unit ( <3 ) should be in other submods as well, at least FROGS. He might have added it manually too.


    Yes, I can never resist an opportunity to talk about anything I've worked on.


  17. #17
    AbrahamLincoln's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    Still, Hammers of Gundabad are a beast unit if used properly. But back on topic. Dragonslayers. Hands down.

  18. #18
    knight of meh's Avatar roghnaithe sciathán bán
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nastrael View Post
    if you don't have MOS how are you supposed to get hammers? :p
    i forgot ... been using MOS so long the line between vanilla and MOS is blurred in my mind

  19. #19
    Blaze of Macedon's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    So, finally i found the time to do my little research. Tested on VH battles.

    First against decent ranged apponents (had to go through the rain of arrows until the last one was shot, and went to a melee after that).

    Results:



    Shieldwall plays a bigger role in melee - cause the Loke Nar Rim have 150 men, they can surround the GoKD and DoEM and so the dwarves suffer more casualties.

    The reverse is true when the dwarvesface the Olog Ha - then they figh far more efficiently when fighting in a compact shield wall:



    The stats of the units tested:



    All in all the GoKD fared better IMO...

    P.S: Iron Guards also win in shieldwall against Olog Hai.
    Last edited by Blaze of Macedon; February 28, 2013 at 07:00 PM.

  20. #20
    Honors Bastion's Avatar CRPG Staff Member
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    Default Re: Dragonslayers or Guards of Khazad Dum?

    ^^

    Nice job. This is really useful information. Taking into account the recruitment variable, it appears that they about equal in strength with the Guards of Khazad Dum being a bit stronger.

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