View Poll Results: Which Dark Lord Was Worse: Mellkor or Sauron

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  • Mellkor/Morgoth

    22 64.71%
  • Sauron

    12 35.29%
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Thread: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

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  1. #1
    megells's Avatar Civis
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    Default Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    The two Dark Lords of Middle-Earth were Melkor and Sauron; Melkor being the mightiest of the Valar who used his power to create evil and disrupt the creation of the world and Sauron being a Maiar and one of Melkor's chief lieutenants during his reign, continuing the wars against the free peoples after his master's demise. Knowing the history of these two, who would you say you hate more, as in to find despicable and deserving of destruction? Don't forget to post why you made your choice!
    My personal choice is Sauron because although Morgoth did create evil, he was one of the Valar and saw a different use for his power and paid the price for it eventually after ages of deceit and tyranny. Sauron, however, refused to acknowledge the end after Morgoth was defeated and refused to surrender to the Valar, instead banishing into the depths of Middle-Earth and continued leading evil for millenniums. He was responsible for the destruction of some of Arda's oldest and most honorable civilizations and had much blood on his hands, fighting for a cause that he should have seen the error of when the Valar themselves invaded Middle-Earth to put down. Because of his devotion to Morgoth, I find him to be even worse than Melkor himself. Nextly, Melkor saw himself as the rightful ruler of the Earth itself because of his role as one of its creators and only wanted to shape the world the way he saw it, while Sauron had no power over the creation of the lands and only desired to control the wills of the creatures of Middle-Earth and enslave them all under darkness. Additionally, he created the One Ring and the other Rings which were literally raw evil in physical form, leading many beings to their ruin, and in the end he was a filthy coward who feared the fate he earned.
    Last edited by megells; February 23, 2013 at 11:46 AM.

  2. #2
    Gallus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    I find Melkor more deserving of destruction but I in no way despise him.

  3. #3
    Krieglord's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Despise is a strong word...

    I would Say Sauron because I feel he has a more relateable humanoid knowledge of Arda compared to Melkor.



  4. #4
    knight of meh's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallus View Post
    I in no way despise him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Krieglord View Post
    Despise is a strong word...
    .
    political correctness gone mad here your not even allowed to despise the bad guys who (alone or together) destroyed the entwives, killed thousands of men , dwarfs and elves enslaved people and that's not forget tried to take over the world multiple times
    Last edited by knight of meh; February 23, 2013 at 12:52 PM. Reason: forgot the knee biters..

  5. #5
    Gallus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by knight of meh View Post
    political correctness gone mad here your not even allowed to despise the bad guys who (alone or together) destroyed the entwives, killed thousands of men , dwarfs and elves enslaved people and that's not forget tried to take over the world multiple times
    Well hate does not equal despise. I'd say I despise Sauron more for using cheap tricks like convincing Ar-Pharazon to attack Valinor when he defeated him. Melkor fought the armies of the Valar multiple times on his own so I have nothing but respect for the man Vala. I hate him more, but I also respect him.

  6. #6
    knight of meh's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallus View Post
    Well hate does not equal despise.
    to certain extent yes it does
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hate

    scroll down to synonyms ad you will find despise there

  7. #7
    Gallus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by knight of meh View Post
    to certain extent yes it does
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hate

    scroll down to synonyms ad you will find despise there
    saying that hate and despise are synonyms is like saying that love and admire are synonyms. I don't care what the wiki says but they most certainly don't have the same meaning. They have similar meaning in some situations, but not the same.

  8. #8
    Krieglord's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by knight of meh View Post
    political correctness gone mad here your not even allowed to despise the bad guys who (alone or together) destroyed the entwives, killed thousands of men , dwarfs and elves enslaved people and that's not forget tried to take over the world multiple times
    It wasn't me trying to be politically correct its just I dont despise either of them :p

    If I was living in middle earth I think yes I may despise Sauron or Morgoth depending on the age I lived in.



  9. #9

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    It could be counter argued who achieved more in which case the victor turned ou to be morgoth in another poll, so in a way melker should be more despised though both are guilty of a lot..

  10. #10

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    C'mon guys, have some sympathy for Sauron. The poor guy planned everything to the last detail only to be defeated because the good guys were so lucky (or it was their "fate" if you prefer) it felt like cheating.
    I mean, it should've been like:
    -Ok, i'll create a huge army, cut off their reinforcements and scare them to death with my hyper-buffed spell-wielding terrifying undead nazgul Captain. There is NO way they can get out of that... [Some weird neandertal pygmies and a freaking ghost army lead by a guy he thought didn't even exist thwart his plans after years of preparation]. -Never mind, i'll lure them into my realm and trap them by surrounding them within minut-WHAAT they got my ring? Ok, i'll just send the nazgul then. [Eagles pop up and the ring gets destroyed] -Oh, man!


    Gotta go for Melkor, at least he had a lot of power and he idiotically spent it around creating minions instead of getting the job done himself while he could. I think he got what he deserved in the end.

  11. #11
    chriskourou's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by glassakias View Post
    C'mon guys, have some sympathy for Sauron. The poor guy planned everything to the last detail only to be defeated because the good guys were so lucky (or it was their "fate" if you prefer) it felt like cheating.
    I mean, it should've been like:
    -Ok, i'll create a huge army, cut off their reinforcements and scare them to death with my hyper-buffed spell-wielding terrifying undead nazgul Captain. There is NO way they can get out of that... [Some weird neandertal pygmies and a freaking ghost army lead by a guy he thought didn't even exist thwart his plans after years of preparation]. -Never mind, i'll lure them into my realm and trap them by surrounding them within minut-WHAAT they got my ring? Ok, i'll just send the nazgul then. [Eagles pop up and the ring gets destroyed] -Oh, man!


    Gotta go for Melkor, at least he had a lot of power and he idiotically spent it around creating minions instead of getting the job done himself while he could. I think he got what he deserved in the end.
    Hahaha Greek Style comment... I totally agree

  12. #12

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    I don't 'despise' either of them. I like the Good side more, but rooting for the bad guys is fun too. However, in terms of the one I like most and like not-as-most, I'd say I like Sauron the most and Melkor the not-as-most. Melkor was more full of himself than Sauron, and though yeah, he formed a terrifying horde of creatures that nearly beat the Vala themselves, he didn't understand the concept of power spreading and alliances. All he wanted was destruction and control, and he thought he was strong enough, being the first and mightiest Vala, that he could extend his power all over Arda and still be as strong in one place as he possibly could be. Sauron acknowledged more, I think, Melkor bit off more than he could chew, hence why Sauron, who himself was extremely powerful, knew it was wiser to be patient, sneakier, and more persuasive and coercive to make allies and scare enemies, before laying the hammer down on them to win. The only reason Sauron truly lost the War of the Ring was because of the West's lucky break. They had no idea their suicide assault on the Black Gate would work, likewise Sauron had no idea that the two Hobbits in his land carried the Ring. He got it mixed up and before he could fix his mistake, he still lost, not even to the West, really, but more to Gollum. Greed and corruption, Sauron's tools, were his own death.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Im gonna say melkor for the sole reason he wasnted to destroy everything like a madman unlike sauron who just wanted to dominate the wills of the people of ME. At least under sauron ME didnt face destruction...

  14. #14
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by avenging angel View Post
    Im gonna say melkor for the sole reason he wasnted to destroy everything like a madman unlike sauron who just wanted to dominate the wills of the people of ME. At least under sauron ME didnt face destruction...
    Neither would it under Melkor/Morgoth actually.
    By some reason most are just informed about Myths Transformed; VII; i where Tolkien discuss the destructive nihilistic side of Melkor, but Tolkien developed this and gave Morgoth a much more complex and less mad, destructive character than so (my red and underlining)

    Morgoth though locally triumphant had neglected most of Middle-earth during the war; and by it he had in fact been weakened: in power and prestige (he had lost and failed to recover one of the Silmarils), and above all in mind. He had become absorbed in ’kingship’, and though a tyrant of ogre-size and monstrous power, this was a vast fall even from his former wickedness of hate, and his terrible nihilism. He had fallen to like being a tyrant-king with conquered slaves, and vast obedient armies.
    - Morgoth’s Ring; Myths Transformed; VII; ii


    Which for the keen eyed obviously is from the same book and sub book, only a few pages later hehe, but as a rule a sadly ignored insight in what Morgoth was up to.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by megells View Post
    The two Dark Lords of Middle-Earth were Melkor and Sauron; Melkor being the mightiest of the Valar who used his power to create evil and disrupt the creation of the world and Sauron being a Maiar and one of Melkor's chief lieutenants during his reign, continuing the wars against the free peoples after his master's demise. Knowing the history of these two, who would you say you hate more, as in to find despicable and deserving of destruction? Don't forget to post why you made your choice!
    My personal choice is Sauron because although Morgoth did create evil, he was one of the Valar and saw a different use for his power and paid the price for it eventually after ages of deceit and tyranny. Sauron, however, refused to acknowledge the end after Morgoth was defeated and refused to surrender to the Valar, instead banishing into the depths of Middle-Earth and continued leading evil for millenniums. He was responsible for the destruction of some of Arda's oldest and most honorable civilizations and had much blood on his hands, fighting for a cause that he should have seen the error of when the Valar themselves invaded Middle-Earth to put down. Because of his devotion to Morgoth, I find him to be even worse than Melkor himself. Nextly, Melkor saw himself as the rightful ruler of the Earth itself because of his role as one of its creators and only wanted to shape the world the way he saw it, while Sauron had no power over the creation of the lands and only desired to control the wills of the creatures of Middle-Earth and enslave them all under darkness. Additionally, he created the One Ring and the other Rings which were literally raw evil in physical form, leading many beings to their ruin, and in the end he was a filthy coward who feared the fate he earned.
    *starts another Mordor campaign*

    SEND FORTH ALL LEGIONSSS!

    *spam smashes the nazgul screeching button for total epicness*






    What d'you mean? Despise?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Neither, without them middle earth would be a boring place

  17. #17
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Morgoth.I like Sauron more.He seemed smarter than his boss, his scheme that led to the Downfall of Numenor was nothing short of brilliant.
    It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.
    Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War

  18. #18

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    True and that was a great victory but about morgoths victory at the battle of unnumbered tears?

    When all the great powers and princes against him were practically destroyed...

  19. #19
    Macilrille's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    I think the new forum form sucks. I hope it is very temporary.

    Anyway, this is redundant IMO; how can you despise the two major powers of evil in a fictional world?

  20. #20
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    It's really hard to reply to posts properly.If you don't like the look though, use the ''Test" style.The default one is ugly as sin.
    It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.
    Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War

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