View Poll Results: Which Dark Lord Was Worse: Mellkor or Sauron

Voters
34. You may not vote on this poll
  • Mellkor/Morgoth

    22 64.71%
  • Sauron

    12 35.29%
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 45

Thread: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

  1. #1
    megells's Avatar Vexillifer
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    186
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    The two Dark Lords of Middle-Earth were Melkor and Sauron; Melkor being the mightiest of the Valar who used his power to create evil and disrupt the creation of the world and Sauron being a Maiar and one of Melkor's chief lieutenants during his reign, continuing the wars against the free peoples after his master's demise. Knowing the history of these two, who would you say you hate more, as in to find despicable and deserving of destruction? Don't forget to post why you made your choice!
    My personal choice is Sauron because although Morgoth did create evil, he was one of the Valar and saw a different use for his power and paid the price for it eventually after ages of deceit and tyranny. Sauron, however, refused to acknowledge the end after Morgoth was defeated and refused to surrender to the Valar, instead banishing into the depths of Middle-Earth and continued leading evil for millenniums. He was responsible for the destruction of some of Arda's oldest and most honorable civilizations and had much blood on his hands, fighting for a cause that he should have seen the error of when the Valar themselves invaded Middle-Earth to put down. Because of his devotion to Morgoth, I find him to be even worse than Melkor himself. Nextly, Melkor saw himself as the rightful ruler of the Earth itself because of his role as one of its creators and only wanted to shape the world the way he saw it, while Sauron had no power over the creation of the lands and only desired to control the wills of the creatures of Middle-Earth and enslave them all under darkness. Additionally, he created the One Ring and the other Rings which were literally raw evil in physical form, leading many beings to their ruin, and in the end he was a filthy coward who feared the fate he earned.
    Last edited by megells; February 23, 2013 at 12:46 PM.

  2. #2
    Gallus's Avatar Equites
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,810
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    I find Melkor more deserving of destruction but I in no way despise him.



    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Meh . . . Spain or Portugal, the country the country that looks like a boot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Macunaíma View Post
    That's Poland, dude.


  3. #3
    Krieglord's Avatar Sagittarius
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    3,139
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Despise is a strong word...

    I would Say Sauron because I feel he has a more relateable humanoid knowledge of Arda compared to Melkor.
    Me playing most strategy game's.. "I have 7 kingdoms to look after and 3 of them are in open rebellion so..."

  4. #4
    glassakias's Avatar Hastatas Prior
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    greece
    Posts
    642
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    C'mon guys, have some sympathy for Sauron. The poor guy planned everything to the last detail only to be defeated because the good guys were so lucky (or it was their "fate" if you prefer) it felt like cheating.
    I mean, it should've been like:
    -Ok, i'll create a huge army, cut off their reinforcements and scare them to death with my hyper-buffed spell-wielding terrifying undead nazgul Captain. There is NO way they can get out of that... [Some weird neandertal pygmies and a freaking ghost army lead by a guy he thought didn't even exist thwart his plans after years of preparation]. -Never mind, i'll lure them into my realm and trap them by surrounding them within minut-WHAAT they got my ring? Ok, i'll just send the nazgul then. [Eagles pop up and the ring gets destroyed] -Oh, man!


    Gotta go for Melkor, at least he had a lot of power and he idiotically spent it around creating minions instead of getting the job done himself while he could. I think he got what he deserved in the end.

  5. #5
    knight of meh's Avatar roghnaithe sciathán bán
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    3,728
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallus View Post
    I in no way despise him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Krieglord View Post
    Despise is a strong word...
    .
    political correctness gone mad here your not even allowed to despise the bad guys who (alone or together) destroyed the entwives, killed thousands of men , dwarfs and elves enslaved people and that's not forget tried to take over the world multiple times
    Last edited by knight of meh; February 23, 2013 at 01:52 PM. Reason: forgot the knee biters..

  6. #6
    RuleBritannia's Avatar Princeps Prior
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,464
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    I don't 'despise' either of them. I like the Good side more, but rooting for the bad guys is fun too. However, in terms of the one I like most and like not-as-most, I'd say I like Sauron the most and Melkor the not-as-most. Melkor was more full of himself than Sauron, and though yeah, he formed a terrifying horde of creatures that nearly beat the Vala themselves, he didn't understand the concept of power spreading and alliances. All he wanted was destruction and control, and he thought he was strong enough, being the first and mightiest Vala, that he could extend his power all over Arda and still be as strong in one place as he possibly could be. Sauron acknowledged more, I think, Melkor bit off more than he could chew, hence why Sauron, who himself was extremely powerful, knew it was wiser to be patient, sneakier, and more persuasive and coercive to make allies and scare enemies, before laying the hammer down on them to win. The only reason Sauron truly lost the War of the Ring was because of the West's lucky break. They had no idea their suicide assault on the Black Gate would work, likewise Sauron had no idea that the two Hobbits in his land carried the Ring. He got it mixed up and before he could fix his mistake, he still lost, not even to the West, really, but more to Gollum. Greed and corruption, Sauron's tools, were his own death.

  7. #7
    Gallus's Avatar Equites
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,810
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by knight of meh View Post
    political correctness gone mad here your not even allowed to despise the bad guys who (alone or together) destroyed the entwives, killed thousands of men , dwarfs and elves enslaved people and that's not forget tried to take over the world multiple times
    Well hate does not equal despise. I'd say I despise Sauron more for using cheap tricks like convincing Ar-Pharazon to attack Valinor when he defeated him. Melkor fought the armies of the Valar multiple times on his own so I have nothing but respect for the man Vala. I hate him more, but I also respect him.



    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Meh . . . Spain or Portugal, the country the country that looks like a boot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Macunaíma View Post
    That's Poland, dude.


  8. #8
    Signifer
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    in my head
    Posts
    232
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Im gonna say melkor for the sole reason he wasnted to destroy everything like a madman unlike sauron who just wanted to dominate the wills of the people of ME. At least under sauron ME didnt face destruction...

  9. #9
    knight of meh's Avatar roghnaithe sciathán bán
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    3,728
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallus View Post
    Well hate does not equal despise.
    to certain extent yes it does
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hate

    scroll down to synonyms ad you will find despise there

  10. #10
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    6,881
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by avenging angel View Post
    Im gonna say melkor for the sole reason he wasnted to destroy everything like a madman unlike sauron who just wanted to dominate the wills of the people of ME. At least under sauron ME didnt face destruction...
    Neither would it under Melkor/Morgoth actually.
    By some reason most are just informed about Myths Transformed; VII; i where Tolkien discuss the destructive nihilistic side of Melkor, but Tolkien developed this and gave Morgoth a much more complex and less mad, destructive character than so (my red and underlining)

    Morgoth though locally triumphant had neglected most of Middle-earth during the war; and by it he had in fact been weakened: in power and prestige (he had lost and failed to recover one of the Silmarils), and above all in mind. He had become absorbed in ’kingship’, and though a tyrant of ogre-size and monstrous power, this was a vast fall even from his former wickedness of hate, and his terrible nihilism. He had fallen to like being a tyrant-king with conquered slaves, and vast obedient armies.
    - Morgoth’s Ring; Myths Transformed; VII; ii


    Which for the keen eyed obviously is from the same book and sub book, only a few pages later hehe, but as a rule a sadly ignored insight in what Morgoth was up to.
    DCI: Last Alliance - WIP Second Age mod | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI |Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Recomended TATW compilations: MOS and Withwnars Submod Collection
    Developer of: The Sundering - a Warhammer Total War experience

    The Kong Commandments
    - 2nd TATW forum comics | van Gondor - a LotR + van Helsing parody | Who Moderates the Moderators? - 1st TATW forum comics

    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon

  11. #11
    Gallus's Avatar Equites
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,810
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by knight of meh View Post
    to certain extent yes it does
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hate

    scroll down to synonyms ad you will find despise there
    saying that hate and despise are synonyms is like saying that love and admire are synonyms. I don't care what the wiki says but they most certainly don't have the same meaning. They have similar meaning in some situations, but not the same.



    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Meh . . . Spain or Portugal, the country the country that looks like a boot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Macunaíma View Post
    That's Poland, dude.


  12. #12
    Vexillifer
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    198
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by megells View Post
    The two Dark Lords of Middle-Earth were Melkor and Sauron; Melkor being the mightiest of the Valar who used his power to create evil and disrupt the creation of the world and Sauron being a Maiar and one of Melkor's chief lieutenants during his reign, continuing the wars against the free peoples after his master's demise. Knowing the history of these two, who would you say you hate more, as in to find despicable and deserving of destruction? Don't forget to post why you made your choice!
    My personal choice is Sauron because although Morgoth did create evil, he was one of the Valar and saw a different use for his power and paid the price for it eventually after ages of deceit and tyranny. Sauron, however, refused to acknowledge the end after Morgoth was defeated and refused to surrender to the Valar, instead banishing into the depths of Middle-Earth and continued leading evil for millenniums. He was responsible for the destruction of some of Arda's oldest and most honorable civilizations and had much blood on his hands, fighting for a cause that he should have seen the error of when the Valar themselves invaded Middle-Earth to put down. Because of his devotion to Morgoth, I find him to be even worse than Melkor himself. Nextly, Melkor saw himself as the rightful ruler of the Earth itself because of his role as one of its creators and only wanted to shape the world the way he saw it, while Sauron had no power over the creation of the lands and only desired to control the wills of the creatures of Middle-Earth and enslave them all under darkness. Additionally, he created the One Ring and the other Rings which were literally raw evil in physical form, leading many beings to their ruin, and in the end he was a filthy coward who feared the fate he earned.
    *starts another Mordor campaign*

    SEND FORTH ALL LEGIONSSS!

    *spam smashes the nazgul screeching button for total epicness*






    What d'you mean? Despise?

  13. #13
    knight of meh's Avatar roghnaithe sciathán bán
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    3,728
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    gonna go down fighting hunh

    Quote Originally Posted by knight of meh View Post
    to certain extent yes it does
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallus View Post
    saying that hate and despise are synonyms is like saying that love and admire are synonyms. I don't care what the wiki says but they most certainly don't have the same meaning. They have similar meaning in some situations, but not the same.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synonym
    synonym means they have the same or similar meanings...

    from my oxford thesaurus :Notes: hate means to "dislike intensely loath" and Despise means "look down on contemptuously"
    so they do in fact have such similar meanings that they can be inter changed most times you could say the emotion is the same but the act vary's slightly

    as a aside love ad admire are synonyms but only when used in verb context

    definitions: adore like very much
    this is the definition of love as a verb in my thesaurus and the first listed synonym is admire....
    Last edited by knight of meh; February 23, 2013 at 03:49 PM.

  14. #14
    chriskourou's Avatar Centurio
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Hellas
    Posts
    416
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by glassakias View Post
    C'mon guys, have some sympathy for Sauron. The poor guy planned everything to the last detail only to be defeated because the good guys were so lucky (or it was their "fate" if you prefer) it felt like cheating.
    I mean, it should've been like:
    -Ok, i'll create a huge army, cut off their reinforcements and scare them to death with my hyper-buffed spell-wielding terrifying undead nazgul Captain. There is NO way they can get out of that... [Some weird neandertal pygmies and a freaking ghost army lead by a guy he thought didn't even exist thwart his plans after years of preparation]. -Never mind, i'll lure them into my realm and trap them by surrounding them within minut-WHAAT they got my ring? Ok, i'll just send the nazgul then. [Eagles pop up and the ring gets destroyed] -Oh, man!


    Gotta go for Melkor, at least he had a lot of power and he idiotically spent it around creating minions instead of getting the job done himself while he could. I think he got what he deserved in the end.
    Hahaha Greek Style comment... I totally agree

  15. #15
    Coldfire88's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    869
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Neither, without them middle earth would be a boring place

  16. #16
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Pili Posterior
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    2,793
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Morgoth.I like Sauron more.He seemed smarter than his boss, his scheme that led to the Downfall of Numenor was nothing short of brilliant.

    Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War
    No, TWC, I have no intention of joining any tournaments.


  17. #17
    Signifer
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    in my head
    Posts
    232
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    True and that was a great victory but about morgoths victory at the battle of unnumbered tears?

    When all the great powers and princes against him were practically destroyed...

  18. #18
    Macilrille's Avatar Pili Prior
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Posts
    2,305
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    I think the new forum form sucks. I hope it is very temporary.

    Anyway, this is redundant IMO; how can you despise the two major powers of evil in a fictional world?

  19. #19
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Pili Posterior
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    2,793
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    It's really hard to reply to posts properly.If you don't like the look though, use the ''Test" style.The default one is ugly as sin.

    Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War
    No, TWC, I have no intention of joining any tournaments.


  20. #20
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Pili Posterior
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    2,793
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Whom Do You Despise More: Morgoth or Sauron?

    Quote Originally Posted by avenging angel View Post
    True and that was a great victory but about morgoths victory at the battle of unnumbered tears?

    When all the great powers and princes against him were practically destroyed...
    Sauron corrupted Numenor, which viewed him as an enemy, and ascended from hostage to the King's greatest Councillor in about 2 or 4 years.And he did it all by himself.

    Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War
    No, TWC, I have no intention of joining any tournaments.


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •