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Thread: Gates of Ulthuan

  1. #1
    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Gates of Ulthuan

    Yesterday, while playing as Saphery, I tried to pass one of the gates (I think it was the Unicorn-gate of Ellyrion) with my Purge-army. When I noticed that it wasn't possible, I negotiated with Ellyrion for military access (who were already my allies). That didn't help though.

    Is there any way to cross the gates of one of your allies? Otherwise I would have to march my army all the way down the mountain chain and back up again to get to Nagarythe

  2. #2
    Kolwen's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    One of the gates will be removed in the next version, so they won't be a problem anymore.

  3. #3
    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    Ah, ok good to know.

    I haven't had this much fun with a Total War game in ages

    Do you, by any chance, also plan introduce some other way of dealing with the cultist missionaries? The assassins of all factions, except Nagarythe, seem to be pretty weak (and assassins aren't the style of Chrace or Caledor anyway). Priests of Asuryan (the upgraded type) could act as Inquisitors and remove cultist missionaries for example?

  4. #4
    Bela's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelthahir View Post
    Do you, by any chance, also plan introduce some other way of dealing with the cultist missionaries?
    The assassins of all factions, except Nagarythe, seem to be pretty weak (and assassins aren't the style of Chrace or Caledor anyway). Priests of Asuryan (the upgraded type) could act as Inquisitors and remove cultist missionaries for example?
    A really good idea there! I always hate that I can not enter a religious "fight" with my priests and bishops against the cultists. But unfortunately this is due to the game engine. Inquisitors are a very hard part to add to any factions. I've seen some attempts in several other mods using inquisitors, and it is really weird. They can remove own, ally and enemy characters as well (hardcoded and can not be changed), and sometimes cause a random crash if are controlled by the player. Also, it is again not allowed for modders to change any agent skills (and the game engine does not recognise the new skills added. Some have tried to add assassin skills to spies, spying skills to merchants and so on, all non-succesful).
    I don't think they will be added to this mod, so it's something again that we have to live with. Assassins are the only solution for those pesky cultist priests, sadly.

    I tried to pass one of the gates (I think it was the Unicorn-gate of Ellyrion) with my Purge-army. When I noticed that it wasn't possible, I negotiated with Ellyrion for military access (who were already my allies). That didn't help though.
    Due to the limits of the game engine again. Passing a fort with military forces is only possible if you conquer it. WHich means military agression and you can't do that to your ally. This is a sad negative feature of the game engine, making hard to help your ally (who will attack you as soon as you have helped them and there is no immediate Nagarythe threat on them )
    Last edited by Bela; February 22, 2013 at 02:17 AM.
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  5. #5
    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    I don't think they will be added to this mod, so it's something again that we have to live with. Assassins are the only solution for those pesky cultist priests, sadly.
    The cultist missionaries also seem to disappear if you just conquer all cultist settlements in the vicinity. Which can be quite difficult to do before the missionaries start causing serious trouble ... I managed to do it in my current Saphery-playthrough though

    I took all cultist cities pretty fast and the missionaries disappeared ... could have been just coincidence though

  6. #6
    Bela's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    Yep, if you destroy a faction, their agents will die as well. Cultist missionaries are the cultist priest agents. If you capture all their settlements, they will die as well. They should live further only if they were the heretics of the rebel factions, but they are not.
    Although, adding heretics and decrease cultist priest recruit pool should be fun... heretics may act like chaos priests, spreading chaos all around Ulthuan -and are destroyable by priests. Sounds fun, although I debt it fits the lore...
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  7. #7
    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    That's not quite what I meant. I didn't destroy the cultist faction, I just conquered all cultist cities in my vicinity. The missionaries then almost immediately moved to different provinces and left me alone.

    Is it possible that they have limited freedom of movement, so they can't move too far away from the next cultist city?

  8. #8
    Bela's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelthahir View Post
    That's not quite what I meant. I didn't destroy the cultist faction, I just conquered all cultist cities in my vicinity. The missionaries then almost immediately moved to different provinces and left me alone.
    Ah, I see sorry mate, misunderstood you!
    This is the AI routine then. The AI removes its priests to regions neighboring its own settlements (and with low % of their own religion). Primary target is always neighboring regions both for military and religious conversion actions. This is logical, they work with much higher efficiency there, and can cause more trouble with religious unrest (rebelling towns usually damage unit training buildings and temples, so you can not train units for some turns, or worse, your town may go rebel. Or you will be excommunicated in Sundering due to the high percentage of Cultist worshippers)

    Is it possible that they have limited freedom of movement, so they can't move too far away from the next cultist city?
    Nope, they have the same movement possibilities as other priests have. It is just the AI that changes its "plans" and immediately retreats its agents to their highest target area.
    So, if you have one or more cultist priests in your territory, you will surely have to face an invading army soon (if there is a neighboring cultist town).
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  9. #9
    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    I see, no restricted movement. The end result is the same though, gameplay-wise
    So all you have to do is conquer the cultist cities next to your provinces to make the missionaries retreat.

    I just don't like using assassins when playing with any faction other than Nagarythe ... it just doesn't feel right

  10. #10
    Bela's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    Yeah, I know. But they are a big help in your campaign, if you can live with the high dread of your faction leader Personally I use a lot of them. Killing enemy merchants and priests, getting rid of demon armies is much quicker if using them. And sometimes it's also useful to remove some of my enemies generals
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  11. #11
    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    But how do you improve your assassins? All the non-Nagarythe assassins seem to suck really hard (the Nagarythe assassins are outright vicious though )

  12. #12
    Bela's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    Yeah, it's quite hard to improve them, but as there is usually around 30% success rate, use them. And as they mostly have only three or four start, it's not a big problem if you lose any.
    Also, if you use them, your faction leader will quickly get the malicious leader (or something similar) trait, so you can train assassins cheaper
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  13. #13
    TWmadman's Avatar Princeps Posterior
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    assassins were meant to be only nagarythe so i made ancillaries especially for them.

    Kolwen changed that at last minute and gave assassins to everyone but they don't have any ancillaries...

    "With Hate, all things are possible." Malus Darkblade

  14. #14
    Bela's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    Yep, only receiving vanilla traits
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  15. #15
    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    Well, it makes sense that only Nagarythe would use assassins. Some other way to deal with the missionaries would be great though. Some kingdoms (Caledor for example) are all about chivalry and martial prowess and would never stoop so low as to use assassins.

    But as Bela said, to implement something like "Inquisitors" seems to be quite difficult (not to mention that it needs to fit the background).

  16. #16
    TWmadman's Avatar Princeps Posterior
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelthahir View Post
    Well, it makes sense that only Nagarythe would use assassins. Some other way to deal with the missionaries would be great though. Some kingdoms (Caledor for example) are all about chivalry and martial prowess and would never stoop so low as to use assassins.

    But as Bela said, to implement something like "Inquisitors" seems to be quite difficult (not to mention that it needs to fit the background).
    Yeah believe me i tried to implement inquisitor system but it was not doable and it would have screw many things in the campaign. And concerning assassins, yeah my first idea was to give only Nagarythe assassins.

    "With Hate, all things are possible." Malus Darkblade

  17. #17
    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    Quote Originally Posted by TWmadman View Post
    Yeah believe me i tried to implement inquisitor system but it was not doable and it would have screw many things in the campaign. And concerning assassins, yeah my first idea was to give only Nagarythe assassins.
    Hmm, another possibilty would be "Shadow Warrior" assassins, that can only be recruited once you have built a "Shadow Warrior hideout". These Shadow Warriors would essentially be assassins, but with a different name and different ancillaries and traits.

    This would make the assassins a bit more lorefriendly for the other kingdoms (still not 100% lorefriendly, since Shadow Warriors operated mainly in Nagarythe, but better than using a "chosen-of-Khaine-assassin" with Eataine, for example).

  18. #18
    knight of meh's Avatar roghnaithe sciathán bán
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    would like to start by saying i do not under stand the game engine n the slightest...

    ok on to my question , i understand that inquisitors are a bust but i seem to remember my priests/bishops/cardinals etc being able to do something to heretics that would get rid of them i think this was only because heretics were a rebel faction but considering they were a faction is it not possible to role this out to the followers of asuryan?

    anyway thanks in advance if you pay attention to what probably is a stupid question
    Last edited by knight of meh; February 25, 2013 at 06:21 AM.

  19. #19
    Bela's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    Yep, heretics are similar to witches. Priests can "attack" them, it's an agent action on them. So can imams "attack" heretics and witches as well. But those belong to the other or heretic religion. In this mod, the followers of Asuryan are the catholic priests and the cultist priests are the imams of the muslim religion. I don't know if it can be done for these two religions to be able to "deal" with the others. Although it should be fun. Agent wars
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  20. #20
    Vexillifer
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    Default Re: Gates of Ulthuan

    You could just remove all cultist priests in the game, and give the rebel factions on periodic events more Heretics with 1 unit stack, so if the stack is killed bye-bye priests as well as you get down the spawn routine.

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