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Thread: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

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    PandaChef's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    Hey, I am going to start a new campaign as Otomo. I am wondering whether to play vanilla or use mods like DarthMod or Radious Mod. I played DarthMod in my last campaign while it was good in some aspects it was annoying in others, my cav couldnt get out of the gates in sieges, the battles lasted too long meaning the campaign as a whole was very long, the AI still seemed to make alot of mistakes, the large unit sizes made it feel like moving units around was harder and i am still undecided on the garrisons as it is so easy to protect from AI naval landings because you already have a big garrison but it is realistic i guess but feels a bit like cheating and it means i never do attacking sieges, i starve them out. Or i could use Radious mod but i have never tried it out before, so i dont know about it.

    Any help would be appreciated.

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    john duca's Avatar Hastatus
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    vanilla or tenka fubu.

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    Altimis's Avatar Princeps Prior
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    If you like DM mod, so play DM mod. No need to start vanilla campaign as long as DM mod support Otomo, else, just back to Vanilla.
    Its easy to make war with others, its never been easy when we need a peace.



    My holy damn simple tactic; Strike First, Strike HARD and SHOW NO MERCY.

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    Aquilifer
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    Vanilla, from my experience, is the hardest version. Mods offer more variety. Many of the things mod makers like to change are things that might be somewhat annoying but which the AI benefits from far more than the player side (RD, diplomacy reliability, income and upkeep, tech rate, garrisons).

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    DeliCiousTZM's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    People started modding the game before they even understood it. So for a good player, a lot of these changes are misinformed because many of these things were overcome by practice and familiarity with the game.

    Radius lower upkeep from 70-80 to 22.
    Darth mod brings down the speed of the game. Which i consider one of the fine qualities especially for H2H to a grinding halt, while "nerfing" the AI and removes trails which i love.

    With that said they get some things right. Like increasing the skill points for the generals and make it look generally better.But if you want a well balanced game and a solid understanding of the mechanics of this Total war stick with Vanilla. And i'm a big mod guy, i have played mods to the total war series since Rome I

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    nuclearaddict's Avatar Vexillifer
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    Vanilla is indeed the hardest of them all. I play Radious FoTS campaign when I want continuous epic battles. Low upkeep means that you can wield a full stack army within a handful of turns after you start your campaign. Problem is, the AI will constantly build full stacks to battle your full stacks since unit upkeep is so cheap. It becomes redundant after a while for my tastes, but if you just keep throwing full stacks at them they will eventually fall.

    So it really depends on your tastes. That's just my experience with Radious. I really enjoy playing Radious campaigns, because it's more pick up and play when I don't have a whole lot of time, but expect a lot of large battles. Also, the added units are nice and a lot of the changes he makes are a lot of fun.

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    Gnufan's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    DM is good for long and cinematic battles and Radious mods offer good variety but I personally think the game is at its best unmodded (with the exception of graphic mods).

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    MJWilliams's Avatar Kirā
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    I've a healthy respect for everyone who's worked to improve this great game, but personally I only use visual mods (banners, clothing, unit variety etc). I've only used one mod consistently since release, Demokritos' ACC (which I recommend to everyone). The true challenge lies in beating the AI with all the boosts and hell of realm divide without altering them in any way.
    "My life is no longer my own, my word worthless.
    But duty goes on, while there is breath. It is all I have left."


    ~ Orlok Tsubodai Bahadur

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    Miles
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    Well if u ask me , darthmod is the best mod if u want a challange campaign (without income boost!) .
    But the question is also how u play the game .
    U like to abuse AI or u play hardcore ?
    Im hardcore player . I restart my campaign 8 times bcs i play hardcore . Now i play with Mori on hard and make small progress and i can tell u the prize for every province I conquer is lots of blood ! ! ! . i saw many videos on youtube about how ppl play legendary vanilla and they way how they play is not legendary but very cheap . They sell stuff with diplomacy to get money , conquer provinve by defeating an enemy vanilla garnison , save every "balanced" battle" and use automatch . This is not legendary mode if u ask me this is pure cheating .

    Why i prefer darthmod ?
    1.Archer got nerfed . In vanilla archers are to accurate and deadly .
    2. AI is more aggresive and unpredictable !
    3. ALso battles are lost longer . In vanilla u saw hugh army retreating . But in darthmod enemy wont retreat easy. This result that every battle is a pure bloody massacre. AND i love it !
    4. Also AI army has more variation . In vanilla u fight basicly against ashigaru armys.
    5. Also the garrison got stronger , so u need to plan careful ur assault on an enemy province . Happened to me alot of times , that i was able to crush enemys main army but didint have enough troops to defeat his garrison so i was forced to retreat and atk later .

    And rly if u play with darthmod dont Automatch . ofc when its like 10 vs 1 . Its understandable . But i made a test with Mori . I besieged enemy castle and did first automatch . Win ratio was like 70 % .
    my army consist of 1800 men vs 1000 . I did automatch and i won with 500 deaths . Now i played the battle and u wont believe me , but i was close to loose the battle . I had 9 general units and 47 bow ashigaru left . Was dam massacre

    So rly if u want a challange campaign and bloody battles go for darthmod and play fair ! dont abuse AI !

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    DeliCiousTZM's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeraphinos View Post
    Well if u ask me , darthmod is the best mod if u want a challange campaign (without income boost!) .
    But the question is also how u play the game .
    U like to abuse AI or u play hardcore ?
    Im hardcore player . I restart my campaign 8 times bcs i play hardcore . Now i play with Mori on hard and make small progress and i can tell u the prize for every province I conquer is lots of blood ! ! ! . i saw many videos on youtube about how ppl play legendary vanilla and they way how they play is not legendary but very cheap . They sell stuff with diplomacy to get money , conquer provinve by defeating an enemy vanilla garnison , save every "balanced" battle" and use automatch . This is not legendary mode if u ask me this is pure cheating .

    Why i prefer darthmod ?
    1.Archer got nerfed . In vanilla archers are to accurate and deadly .
    2. AI is more aggresive and unpredictable !
    3. ALso battles are lost longer . In vanilla u saw hugh army retreating . But in darthmod enemy wont retreat easy. This result that every battle is a pure bloody massacre. AND i love it !
    4. Also AI army has more variation . In vanilla u fight basicly against ashigaru armys.
    5. Also the garrison got stronger , so u need to plan careful ur assault on an enemy province . Happened to me alot of times , that i was able to crush enemys main army but didint have enough troops to defeat his garrison so i was forced to retreat and atk later .

    And rly if u play with darthmod dont Automatch . ofc when its like 10 vs 1 . Its understandable . But i made a test with Mori . I besieged enemy castle and did first automatch . Win ratio was like 70 % .
    my army consist of 1800 men vs 1000 . I did automatch and i won with 500 deaths . Now i played the battle and u wont believe me , but i was close to loose the battle . I had 9 general units and 47 bow ashigaru left . Was dam massacre

    So rly if u want a challange campaign and bloody battles go for darthmod and play fair ! dont abuse AI !
    But the question is also how u play the game .
    U like to abuse AI or u play hardcore ?
    Fast to give up, very hardcore
    Im hardcore player . I restart my campaign 8 times bcs i play hardcore
    Plays on hard? Very hardcore N
    ow i play with Mori on hard and make small progress
    Guy has a very deep understanding of Legendary mechanics
    save every "balanced" battle" and use automatch
    The guy is leading the pro shogun2 movement, with his epic Hard campaigning ability.
    This is not legendary mode if u ask me this is pure cheating.
    Just because you are new to Shogun2 and feel the need to grind through the battle swamp, because you havent yet mastered the game don't mean that most of us haven't. Doing stuff like selling military access to the AI or autoresolving siege battles, are practical things to do and if you wanna master! If anything you should use all the tools at your disposal. That doesn't mean that you cant win without it, i just means that you adapt the pace of the game to it. Now i know you are refering to my videos because they are the one floating around here. I didn't always sell military access, and i used to fight a lot more battles. Don't exactly know how only fighting the battles where you are favored to lose is a sign of low skill? To me a person shouldn't play a 70% favored battle, he should play a 30% chance battle. What in the world makes you think that not auto resolving "won autocalc battles" is a sign of skill?Maybe you're just jelly tho that you cant win a Legendary campaign using the tools yourself. So you sit on hard and kid yourself that your way is the pro way, like many untested total war players the ego grows.

    Killing the AI in siege battles can also be quite easy if you are slow and methodical and use a higher archer to unit ratio, to snipe down the AI units burn the gates and then walk in. But at the end of the day you are struggling on Hard while some of us play against people online.

    So rly if u want a challenge campaign? And bloody battles, go for multiplayer campaign and play fair! dont abuse the AI. Good luck buddy,
    Last edited by DeliCiousTZM; February 28, 2013 at 05:46 AM.

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    Miles
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    First off all Mr The-Monatery i didnt want to offend you or anyone else .

    the reason why i post was because i couldnt understand the point that vanilla is harder than anything else . The OP asked community what is better vanilla or mod version .

    And after my opinion , Darthmod is much harder and more realistic than vanilla version. I point some stuff out why i think that and thats all .

    And now to u Mr Monatery .

    I dont think the way i play my campaign is the "pro" way . But they way i play it is much more realistic than yours and thats all i want .
    I dont want to make cheap money by abusing diplomacy AI. Would you accept such offers ? I dont think so .
    I dont want to defeat an entire clan by killing just 1 unit garrison . This is not realistic .
    I dont want to use automatch only to get less casualties special on sieges . Not realistic special when u play with darthmod , those " win win batlles" can turn out very close to a loose .
    ALso i dont want to defeat whole armys by spamming just archers . Not realistic . The vanilla archers are way to OP .
    And burning down gates is for me also a no go . The Ai doesnt use it so i dont use it too .

    I just want to play the game in a realistic way . And there is only one mod that changes the gameplay to more a realistic way and thats Darthmod .


    And about multiplayer .

    As a realism freak like i am , im sure u can guess my opinion about total war multiplayer .

    And again im sry that u felt offened wasnt personal besides idk .

    Regards

    Zera

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    Ritterlichvon86's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeraphinos View Post
    Well if u ask me , darthmod is the best mod if u want a challange campaign (without income boost!) .
    But the question is also how u play the game .
    U like to abuse AI or u play hardcore ?
    Im hardcore player . I restart my campaign 8 times bcs i play hardcore . Now i play with Mori on hard and make small progress and i can tell u the prize for every province I conquer is lots of blood ! ! ! . i saw many videos on youtube about how ppl play legendary vanilla and they way how they play is not legendary but very cheap . They sell stuff with diplomacy to get money , conquer provinve by defeating an enemy vanilla garnison , save every "balanced" battle" and use automatch . This is not legendary mode if u ask me this is pure cheating .
    You cannot save anything in legendary. The game is 100% continuous. Talking FotS here.

    Why i prefer darthmod ?
    1.Archer got nerfed . In vanilla archers are to accurate and deadly .
    Armored Samurai take arrows quite well. Squishies, peasants, monks, and modern line infantry, are not armored, they don't like arrows. That's their counter. Darth just removed it O_o
    2. AI is more aggresive and unpredictable !
    For me, vanilla AI was better. Very aggressive. It also uses your errors against you - if you stand in front of your castle, it will walk around you, try to storm the castle quickly, so attacker and defender have suddenly switches places - just like a human would do. On the campaign map, it is most often true to its relations, but can have dedicated interests it will follow. Playing Darthmod, I encountered problems like armies standing around not moving, especially in castles. This never happened in vanilla.
    3. Also battles are lost longer . In vanilla u saw hugh army retreating . But in darthmod enemy wont retreat easy. This result that every battle is a pure bloody massacre. AND i love it !
    In vanilla you win by breaking the opponents morale most often. But not before half or two thirds of the enemy army went down. If you fight an army with many peasants (almost exclusively in the very early game), and are tactically good (successful Hammer and Anvil strikes), it may break earlier.
    4. Also AI army has more variation . In vanilla u fight basicly against ashigaru armys.
    Only in the very early game. Thus, also wrong.
    5. Also the garrison got stronger , so u need to plan careful ur assault on an enemy province . Happened to me alot of times , that i was able to crush enemys main army but didint have enough troops to defeat his garrison so i was forced to retreat and atk later .
    You talk about "cheating" AI earlier, criticizing that it got additional money (like in all previous TW games). Then you turn around and welcome the über-spawn of garrisons in DM? Without even military buildings present? If they were at least techlevel- and building-tied like the Barracks and Castles of FotS AND proper (not to much, not too few, much like reinforcements). This obvious contrast stands so hard in the light it feels like sticking bloody knives into your eyes, so go judge for yourself again.

    And rly if u play with darthmod dont Automatch . ofc when its like 10 vs 1 . Its understandable . But i made a test with Mori . I besieged enemy castle and did first automatch . Win ratio was like 70 % .
    my army consist of 1800 men vs 1000 . I did automatch and i won with 500 deaths . Now i played the battle and u wont believe me , but i was close to loose the battle . I had 9 general units and 47 bow ashigaru left . Was dam massacre
    I like vanilla, you either win or lose most often, largely depended on flanking, tactical finesse, morale breaking. In DM, it feels like 2 armies with almost infinite morale clash. You just cannot get them to rout even if you double-flank and then double-smash the units while they're under pressure from the front too. That's not TW, that's C&C.

    So rly if u want a challange campaign and bloody battles go for darthmod and play fair ! dont abuse AI !
    I don't think so. I don't like how it crashes the AI, takes scissors out of rock-paper-scissors (archers), makes rock OP (cavalry), lets AI armies stand around crawling balls in castles, and spawns defensive armies when entering siege battles.


    CA did a real good job on the AI, probably the best ever in a TW game. It is far superior to any previous game or previously modded tw title. Darth seems to have an agenda against CA.. he claims things like "now with improved, 200% more aggressive battle AI. Now you will get a challenge, finally! Fixed AI! etc." and stuff like that. Up until ETW he did really good tbh, but that was because ETW was a catastrophe upon release, bugwise, AI wise. In Nappy the mod-introduced bugs started with immobile armies, loads of bugs, additional crashes, glitches, throwing competitive balance out of the window, and so on. The games have gotten so good, that it seems he also "retired" from modding duty. He did well in the old times and can be proud of that. Nowadays however, it is not needed anymore, because except from adding some fancy few units and cool maps here and there, everything is all well and dandy. You actually give up really awesome things like Drop-In battles and multiplayer functionality when modding Shogun 2 / FotS.
    Last edited by Ritterlichvon86; February 28, 2013 at 10:17 AM.


    "Hail the German tribes, conquerors of Rome!"

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    Aquilifer
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    ...Realism? Realism would be that archers do indeed kill everything on the battlefield, most deaths during the sengoku were due to arrows after all. As for the supposed overpoweredness of archers in vanilla, god knows where that comes from. Honestly if it wasn't for the the fact that 1. autocalc likes them and 2. they're somewhat required for both defensive and offensive sieges, I'd never have a single archer unit in my army because they're not nearly as efficient as melee units. Avatar MP might differ a bit from the main game in stats, but I'd say you get a pretty good impression of how useful archers are against a non-clueless opponent there (hint: not). With their darthmod performance and the new and upped unit size, you'd have to be stupid to make a single archer unit.

    Garrison buffs go both ways. Unless you're horribly bad at this game, you can pretty much hold off 95% of the sieges the AI throws at you with a half-stack of ashigaru. So when a mod(in this case Darthmod, but others are guilty of this as well) gives you that halfstack for free in every city, the AI doesn't exactly have much of a chance of ever taking a castle from you unless it manages to gather several full stacks for an assault.

    Reducing the upkeeps of units and buffing income, like darthmod, is a huge benefit for the player. The AI is far less constrained by budgets than the player, atleast in the early and mid game.

    Increasing points per character level hugely benefits the player, because the AI does not create lots of agents nor do their generals tend to survive for long, especially against the player. Agents and generals are freaking powerful even with 2 points per level.

    Making the AI less backstabby and reducing RD again makes the game that much easier, the AI hardly has to worry about backstabbing itself and reducing RD just makes it easier to avoid getting AI attacks large enough to overcome player garrisons. Making the AI less aggressive towards the player also benefits the player a lot. No more need to worry about those ninja sea invasions by a clan on the other side of Japan when playing Darthmod.

    Increasing unit size benefits the player because the AI is bad at managing formations, larger unit sizes effectively mean larger and slower turning formations which just screws up the AI more.

    Removing "cheats" from the AI is obviously a huge decrease in AI effectiveness, but I know you can turn these back on (and I indeed did turn every cheat back on before even trying darthmod, and it was still a snorefest compared to vanilla).

    In the end the only things that you could argue Darthmod changes that actually benefit the AI is higher overall morale and better building logic. All the other changes more than balance this out in favor of the player. I'm not saying Darthmod's style of gameplay doesn't have an audience, but it certainly isn't an improvement difficulty wise.
    Last edited by Cruzz; February 28, 2013 at 10:28 AM.

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    Miles
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    Yes i find Darthmod improves alot shogun2 gameplay in a realistic way than vanilla does .


    1. Here is a video that proofs unrealistic accuracy from archers .


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxuuz92yCJ8


    U see lowest archer unit fire with accucary like modern missiles. If u think thats realistic , well than no comment .


    2. i found also another video that show u unrealistic behaviour from battle AI special moral system .


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qZdjDmkjGw (start at 1:30)


    U see basicly a fight btw 2 guys vs 155 enemys . He kills one guy and whole army route . This has not something to do with skills just poor battle ai and morale way to low, leading to fast and unrealistic battles .


    3. And again a video about garrison issue (start at 21:15)


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rDvG1uOt6s


    Here u see a player destroying a faction by killing one unit bcs ai had his main army outside . ANd why is that bcs thats how the campain AI works.


    @ Cruzz

    Why u think Darthmod changed this stuff ? Why he changed archer , garrison , battle ai and so on . For realism sake . For ppl like us who care for realistic gameplay . Ofc darthmod can be improved and im sure it will be but for me those 3 major changes are enough for me to stop play vanilla and continue with darthmod , like i did also with etw and ntw . Daarthmod is just best mod if u go for realistic challenge after my opinion .

    Now i ask u Cruzz . U see in this 3 points a problem and if yes ( i hope u do ) how would you improve it with limit modding tools , basicly changing values . Darthmod did the best based on limit modding ability to improve the gameplay . U cant force the AI to recruit garrison units like human player can do , so he increased basic garrison and unfortunately the human player benefits also from this changes , But what could he have done else ?
    Morale system , in vanilla by using like Ritterlich said "Hammer and anvil strikes" u could make route enemy army in less than 3 min doesnt matter if he enemy had still over 60 % of his troops . So darthmod lowered moral drop for every unit so battles last longer .

    And i want to do add also that i dont use increased unit size and also no income boost .

    Zera

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    Aquilifer
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeraphinos View Post
    U see lowest archer unit fire with accucary like modern missiles. If u think thats realistic , well than no comment .
    I really don't care much about how the graphics effect is, I care about how units actually perform in battle. Vanilla archers are pretty weak in open field battles even when you don't consider all the LOS issues they have been suffering from ever since that One Patch That Changed The System.

    2. i found also another video that show u unrealistic behaviour from battle AI special moral system .

    U see basicly a fight btw 2 guys vs 155 enemys . He kills one guy and whole army route . This has not something to do with skills just poor battle ai and morale way to low, leading to fast and unrealistic battles .
    Even when you up the morale the AI will still suck at sieges because it just blindly rushes forward with no consideration given to how player places units, how it could use gates, and generally poor unit composition for sieges. Meanwhile upping the morale completely kills off most attempts at strategy in open field battles, who cares about getting flanked when the morale penalty for that will never make your units break.

    Darthmod effectively removes morale from the game, atleast whenever generals are around. So how realistic is that? If you don't think those little real life ashigaru didn't run off after half of their unit was dead, you have some rather interesting views about history and human behaviour.


    Here u see a player destroying a faction by killing one unit bcs ai had his main army outside . ANd why is that bcs thats how the campain AI works.
    I do not consider this an issue. On the realism side it's reaaaaally pointless to argue about it as well, nobody sieged castles that held a full freaking army during the time period and ALWAYS attempted to siege one while the defending clan was elsewhere.

    Why u think Darthmod changed this stuff ? Why he changed archer , garrison , battle ai and so on . For realism sake . For ppl like us who care for realistic gameplay . Ofc darthmod can be improved and im sure it will be but for me those 3 major changes are enough for me to stop play vanilla and continue with darthmod , like i did also with etw and ntw . Daarthmod is just best mod if u go for realistic challenge after my opinion .
    Because he likes slow as molasses gameplay that to him looks epic? As I said he does have an audience, but you're never going to convince me that almost any of his changes would be any good.

    so he increased basic garrison and unfortunately the human player benefits also from this changes , But what could he have done else ?
    He could've left it alone.

    And i want to do add also that i dont use increased unit size and also no income boost .
    AFAIK (haven't tried darthmod in several versions), you can't disable the vastly lowered upkeeps, so you're always effectively playing with an income boost. The generally friendlier campaign AI will also lead to more money through trade and so on.
    Last edited by Cruzz; March 01, 2013 at 04:52 PM.

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    DeliCiousTZM's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    I have heard and seen plenty of people that either got frustrated with the Legendary AI bonus, Realm divide, food shortages, lack of morale and lack of income. They then proceeded to rage quit vanilla and started to mod the game. You get threads like that every day! What mod will reduce realm divide or remove it? Cheating AI advantage is too much! If you wanna claim that darthmod adds more content? there is some truth to that. If you wanna add that darthmod is more historically accurate? Maybe you're right. But don't claim that Darthmod improves upon gameplay by slowing it down or is more of a challenge. To me it looks weird when my Yari ashigaru fights until the bitter end, to add more morale to that formula is insanity.

    These are troubles i don't have. So what is really more skilled about a garrison script that works more in the players favour than the AI? Slowing down gameplay to the point where having high APM(Actions per minutes) or fast mouse speed will give you a very small advantage? Or removed AI bonuses and reduced realm divide effect, not the mention higher income and lower upkeep.

    And i have to attack you a little bit because you sit there and lecture people of how people should "really" play to make it more challenging while you sit in Darth mod on hard. Come on man!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qZdjDmkjGw (start at 1:30)
    U see basicly a fight btw 2 guys vs 155 enemys . He kills one guy and whole army route . This has not something to do with skills just poor battle ai and morale way to low, leading to fast and unrealistic battles .
    For the untrained eye this looks like 2 dudes beating 155 guys. That is not the case, this is a battle at the end where the rest of the army has routed their general is dead and the units inside the castle are morale locked. If they were outside the battle and not in combat they might have retreated by themselves. I also wanna point out that this is very REALISTIC. if the opposing force is reduced to rubble with one last unit remaining general dead and all. There is no doubt that they would rout.

    3. And again a video about garrison issue (start at 21:15)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rDvG1uOt6s
    Here u see a player destroying a faction by killing one unit bcs ai had his main army outside . ANd why is that bcs thats how the campain AI works.
    I cant explain why, i just get the feeling that this guys is awesome

    1. Here is a video that proofs unrealistic accuracy from archers .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxuuz92yCJ8
    U see lowest archer unit fire with accucary like modern missiles. If u think thats realistic , well than no comment.
    This video is great btw it illustrates one of the most obvious things lost in the noise of realism. THIS IS A COMPUTER GAME! CONTROLLING AN ARMY WITH A MOUSE IS NOT REALISTIC. So ease up, here is a story from one of my Head to Head games coming from a snake trying to force his will.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    -Realism dude: Why only 2 minute turn time? Put it on 10 mins.
    -DeliCious: That would be to slow, you should be able to play it on 2-3 minutes early on.
    -Realism dude: Well in real world 1 turn equal 3 months, So 10 minutes is very fast. You like realistic game no?
    -DeliCious: Sure, all right 10 mins.
    (I started the game and performed my turn, i then waited around 4-5 minutes for him to finish his first time. As soon as he was done i left, so he messaged me.)
    -Realism dude: Why you leave? you scared?
    -DeliCious: No,no ill see you in three months.

    Dont forget folks this is a game influenced by the Japanese wars, but it is above all a game.
    Last edited by DeliCiousTZM; March 01, 2013 at 06:49 PM.

  17. #17
    PandaChef's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    I agree with the people who say DM made alot of unnecessary additions which hindered the game and the disadvantages outweighed the advantages so i ended up playing vanilla.

    Long battles feel like a chore, the campaigns are already long enough without extra time for battles. They went on too long.

    The increased unit sizes made sieges a nightmare, it was so clustered and your units felt very hard to manuver. Also my cav couldnt get out the castle gates.

    The garrisons meant i didnt play a single siege as the attacker as there was no point. If the odds were in my favour then just autoresolve and if it was close then i would just starve them out. It also meant defending my provinces was very easy.

    There are others which i cant remember directly and some have been mentioned by others such as archers but in the end vanilla seems to be the best.

  18. #18
    Miles
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    There is no point at least from my side to continue this discussion . I said what i want to say to give OP a view of how darthmod changed the game for me and thats all . U guys disagreed and its fine i respect it bcs like The-Monatery said its just a game , so there are no false arguments , its just matter of taste . I just find it such a shame that CA never rly cared to add to their games more realistic depth. The only realism option u have is limit camera and no radar . Such a shame .

    @ PandaChef honestly man , why u play a total war game ? when u dont bother for battles ?

    I think that we all agree the formula for the sucess for any total war game is bcs of the battles and not for the campaign gameplay bcs then a paradox game would be the better game .


    Zera

  19. #19
    DeliCiousTZM's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeraphinos View Post
    There is no point at least from my side to continue this discussion . I said what i want to say to give OP a view of how darthmod changed the game for me and thats all . U guys disagreed and its fine i respect it bcs like The-Monatery said its just a game , so there are no false arguments , its just matter of taste . I just find it such a shame that CA never rly cared to add to their games more realistic depth. The only realism option u have is limit camera and no radar . Such a shame .

    @ PandaChef honestly man , why u play a total war game ? when u dont bother for battles ?

    I think that we all agree the formula for the sucess for any total war game is bcs of the battles and not for the campaign gameplay bcs then a paradox game would be the better game .


    Zera
    I think that Rome II will have have a "Line of sight" realism setting or default. I think Total war has depth(With room for improvements) it all depends on what level you play it Zera. in Head to Head games are won on the strategy map not in battles, when the battles commence one party is usually much more favored than the other party. There are exceptions of course like when me and Cruzz played(You Finnish devil!).
    For me today battles are 20-30% of the game, but it wasn't always so. the % has been on a downward slide for a long time as i get better i lose interest in playing repetitive battles and as i got better i know how to avoid fighting battles at times where i don't feel like it. When you played most campaigns online versus players you learn that fighting battles can be a potential weakness that the enemy exploits. I mean i won maybe 50% of my Head to Head games just by playing as the AI and i must have over 200 online campaigns.

    The total war games are great like that to me tho. When it comes out it is all about the battles, but as time progress it starts becoming more and more about the campaign map with the focus shifting away from battles, it starts to focus on diplomacy,agents,movement.
    I expect Rome II to be the same way.

    As you say Zera, taste is taste. If you enjoy Darthmod for any reason more than vanilla good for you. At the end of the day I know plenty people with bad taste ;P

    -DeliCious

  20. #20
    PandaChef's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: New Campaign - Vanilla or Modded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeraphinos View Post
    There is no point at least from my side to continue this discussion . I said what i want to say to give OP a view of how darthmod changed the game for me and thats all . U guys disagreed and its fine i respect it bcs like The-Monatery said its just a game , so there are no false arguments , its just matter of taste . I just find it such a shame that CA never rly cared to add to their games more realistic depth. The only realism option u have is limit camera and no radar . Such a shame .

    @ PandaChef honestly man , why u play a total war game ? when u dont bother for battles ?

    I think that we all agree the formula for the sucess for any total war game is bcs of the battles and not for the campaign gameplay bcs then a paradox game would be the better game .


    Zera
    I do bother for battles? When did i say i didnt? I just dont play all of them because it gets tedious.

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