Falklands War of Words - The Empire Strikes Back

[AUSSIE11]

Only if west is anything west of the Atlantic.



Especially with the ships the British sent, it's a wonder that there weren't any more losses.

It's all about Skill mate

On efficacy the RN is probably the 2nd or 3rd most powerful in the world any way so not much to be ashamed of... If only they'd got 12 45's like originally intended...

[Stavroforos]

It's all about Skill mate

On efficacy the RN is probably the 2nd or 3rd most powerful in the world any way so not much to be ashamed of... If only they'd got 12 45's like originally intended...

I don't really think it can be argued that the various second-rate navies are better or worse than each other by any meaningful margin, because second place is so far behind first place and is shared with so many others.

[AUSSIE11]

I don't really think it can be argued that the various second-rate navies are better or worse than each other by any meaningful margin, because second place is so far behind first place and is shared with so many others.

Largely it's irrelevant cause the only Navies the RN is going to be fighting against alone are 3rd, 4th or 5th rate if not unclassified. Afainst any significant opponent the RN will always be with the USN and its only Junk Navies like the Argentines they'll be fighting... The QE's will move England Firmly into 2nd though... as long as they've got ewnough 45's and 23's to protect them...

[Stavroforos]

Largely it's irrelevant cause the only Navies the RN is going to be fighting against alone are 3rd, 4th or 5th rate if not unclassified. Afainst any significant opponent the RN will always be with the USN and its only Junk Navies like the Argentines they'll be fighting... The QE's will move England Firmly into 2nd though... as long as they've got ewnough 45's and 23's to protect them...

Isn't France also getting them? In any case, it may be second, but it will still be well within the realm of second-rate navies.

Of course I don't doubt that the only time Europeans actually use their militaries they use them against nations which basically have none.

[Condottiere 40K]

Could have been worse, if Maggie hadn't read Mitterrand the Riot Act. As for the state of the RN, that was a legacy of previous and prevailing ministerial mismanagement, that forced them to give up their fixed wing carrier(s) and tried penny pinching.

[AUSSIE11]

Of course I don't doubt that the only time Europeans actually use their militaries they use them against nations which basically have none.

First rule of success mate, never kick something that can kick back, it's only logic... Plus when you boil it down the only thre navies outside the EU and NATO that could really compete are Japan, China and the USS-Sorry i mean Russia. Japans Defences are currently restricted to only acting in a defensive manner by their constitution so it's unlikely they'll engage them and agains the Bear or the Dragon the USA, NATO and EU will probably all be on the Same side. War in that case is so unlikely it really should be listed as an impossibility...

[Stavroforos]

Could have been worse, if Maggie hadn't read Mitterrand the Riot Act. As for the state of the RN, that was a legacy of previous and prevailing ministerial mismanagement, that forced them to give up their fixed wing carrier(s) and tried penny pinching.

Or maybe waking up to the fact that Britain doesn't need as strong a military anymore.

First rule of success mate, never kick something that can kick back, it's only logic... Plus when you boil it down the only thre navies outside the EU and NATO that could really compete are Japan, China and the USS-Sorry i mean Russia. Japans Defences are currently restricted to only acting in a defensive manner by their constitution so it's unlikely they'll engage them and agains the Bear or the Dragon the USA, NATO and EU will probably all be on the Same side. War in that case is so unlikely it really should be listed as an impossibility...

Then why caring about where exactly Britain's navy ranks?

[Pielstick]

The QE's will move England Firmly into 2nd though... as long as they've got ewnough 45's and 23's to protect them...

Au contraire. They will be two very expensive white elephants that will be awesome testimony to the vanity of the "Senior Service" and utterly counter productive inter-service rivalry.

[AUSSIE11]

Could have been worse, if Maggie hadn't read Mitterrand the Riot Act. As for the state of the RN, that was a legacy of previous and prevailing ministerial mismanagement, that forced them to give up their fixed wing carrier(s) and tried penny pinching.

Which sadly from the RN's perspective they've returned to...

[Pielstick]

Considering the RN pays £46 for a chrome effect plastic soap dish I think penny pinching politicians are not the problem

[AUSSIE11]

Considering the RN pays £46 for a chrome effect plastic soap dish I think penny pinching politicians are not the problem

Welcome to the world of acquisitions... My plain blue biros cost $2.30 ach according to an intraoffice memo about why we shouldn't steal stationary...

[Condottiere 40K]

False economies might be more accurate.

[tarvu]

Well if your argument is that the British are bad because they settled on an island that Spain said was theirs despite not being there, then surely that makes the Spanish just as bad for claiming the island after the British first abandoned it? The British had placed a plaque saying it was British and the Spanish simply placed one saying it was Spanish a few years later.
You're saying the British are wrong for doing what the Spanish did. Make your mind up.




But not everybody here is British so why is it the British you're targeting? There has been Americans arguing and I'm Irish (so I'm the last person to defend British imperialism WHEN it's wrong). Is it some pent up anger because you secretly wish you were British?


I think we're done here

How can you argue both that possession and occupation is the basis of a claim, and that "Spanish just as bad for claiming the island after the British first abandoned it"?

Unoccupied land is not necessarily up for grabs for whoever places a plaque on it. There are vast swaths of unoccupied lands in many nations across the world, should the British begin sending expeditions to claim these again?

The French had the first colony on the Falklands THEY SOLD IT TO SPAIN.

Not because Spain wanted to settle them, but because they objected to having a French base off of the coast of their land. The French were reasonable and sold it to them. It belonged to Spain at that point, how do you argue against that?

they just showed up on land someone else had bought and said it was theirs. How do you defend that?

There was an international crisis at the time over this and Spain never gave them to you. I guess your claim is that they won the islands in a war which never happened or in layman's terms "they punked them from that ass Spain".

[ivan_the_terrible]

How about a compromise, where the Falkland islands themselves remain part of the UK while Argentina gets to exploit resources in the nearby waters alongside the UK?

This ways everyone gets what they want: Argentina gets the resources, and the UK gets to uphold the self-determination of the islanders (this is the main argument for the islands remaining part of the UK, no?).

[Comrade_Rory]

How can you argue both that possession and occupation is the basis of a claim, and that "Spanish just as bad for claiming the island after the British first abandoned it"?

Unoccupied land is not necessarily up for grabs for whoever places a plaque on it. There are vast swaths of unoccupied lands in many nations across the world, should the British begin sending expeditions to claim these again?

The French had the first colony on the Falklands THEY SOLD IT TO SPAIN.

Not because Spain wanted to settle them, but because they objected to having a French base off of the coast of their land. The French were reasonable and sold it to them. It belonged to Spain at that point, how do you argue against that?

they just showed up on land someone else had bought and said it was theirs. How do you defend that?

There was an international crisis at the time over this and Spain never gave them to you. I guess your claim is that they won the islands in a war which never happened or in layman's terms "they punked them from that ass Spain".

I think you're missing the fact here. I'll just put it plain and simple for you because you seem to be able to get your mind around it.
I'll use the US as an example here because you seem to be unable to understand anything else... actually you haven't even got a clue about your own country but it's probably my best shot of getting through to you.

-Britain gives the Falklands to Argentina because they weren't the first to claim the land = the US gives HUGE amounts of land back to Britain and Spain.
-Britain gives the Falklands to Argentina because it's apparently wrong to settle on empty land = the US give up claims over however many Pacific islands they own.
-Britain gives the Falklands to Argentina because it's apparently stolen = the US gives back land to Native Americans.
-Britain gives the Falklands to Argentina because they're apparently bribing the Falkland islanders = the US give Alaska back to the Russians or Canada.
-Britain gives the Falklands to Argentina because they're closer = the US gives Alaska to Canada.

Do these sound good to you? Because I'm pretty sure all of these have been used as counter-arguments throughout the thread and you've not acknowledged how ridiculous they sound.
You just accuse Britain of imperialism a little more. You DO realise people think you're ridiculous? You're on your own in a thread arguing a point that you can't back up so you throw around some insults and accuse Britain of silly things. This is like deja vu...

There was an international crisis at the time over this and Spain never gave them to you.

I'm sorry but I have to point this out because it annoys me and is proof of your inability to read posts properly. I'll just quote myself.

But not everybody here is British so why is it the British you're targeting? There has been Americans arguing and I'm Irish (so I'm the last person to defend British imperialism WHEN it's wrong).

[I WUB PUGS]

tarvu man, ing tarvu. Just give up Rory, its just going to go around and around. Epic trolling.

[AUSSIE11]

tarvu man, ing tarvu. Just give up Rory, its just going to go around and around. Epic trolling.

Yep... every thread i can remember on the falklands and he's there...

[Admiral Piett]

Wait wait wait.

So the British is considered West, while Argentina isn't?

*looks at map*

[AqD]

How about a compromise, where the Falkland islands themselves remain part of the UK while Argentina gets to exploit resources in the nearby waters alongside the UK?

This ways everyone gets what they want: Argentina gets the resources, and the UK gets to uphold the self-determination of the islanders (this is the main argument for the islands remaining part of the UK, no?).

No of course not. The resource belongs to islanders.

[AUSSIE11]

How about a compromise, where the Falkland islands themselves remain part of the UK while Argentina gets to exploit resources in the nearby waters alongside the UK?

This ways everyone gets what they want: Argentina gets the resources, and the UK gets to uphold the self-determination of the islanders (this is the main argument for the islands remaining part of the UK, no?).

If i remember the Brits offered to split the resources 50/50 with the Argentines. They were refused none too politely...