The pope is resigning

[Påsan]

So apparently god was among those Christians that does not approve of the abdication and subsequently sent some lighting to St. Peters Basilica a few hours after the decision was made.

[Gaidin]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-8492047.html

That is you arguing with a an authority on Papal Affairs dude, maybe you should go lightly on Wikipedia.

All canon law says is that he can resign and they can't do to stop him. Once the 28th comes and goes and if he doesn't stop himself, he has to do what they say, and as of now, the protocol for dealing with it has him living in seclusion. Get the hell over it.

[Menelik_I]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-8492047.html

All canon law says is that he can resign and they can't do to stop him. Once the 28th comes and goes and if he doesn't stop himself, he has to do what they say, and as of now, the protocol for dealing with it has him living in seclusion. Get the hell over it.

So I linked an article of a senhor Catholic Cardinal explaining the situation, and you link some dope making jokes about cats ?

He might leave in a Monastery for the rest of his days, but news flash Catholic Monks are living in monasteries for a long time now so I don't get your tone about him being locked away. He has a right to abdicate if He feels that He is physically unable to carry his Ministry and there is nothing tabu about, but doesn't means that He will lose his dignity as Apostolic Pontifice.

[Gaidin]

So I linked an article of a senhor Catholic Cardinal explaining the situation, and you link some dope making jokes about cats ?

He might leave in a Monastery for the rest of his days, but news flash Catholic Monks are living in monasteries for a long time now so I don't get your tone about him being locked away. He has a right to abdicate if He feels that He is physically unable to carry his Ministry and there is nothing tabu about, but doesn't means that He will lose his dignity as Apostolic Pontifice.

I'm mostly caring about the quotes from Father Lombardi but if you can't parse a story from the title I couldn't give a damn less what you have to say.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Why should we care if a man too old to continue office resigns? Will the world end from this blasphemy?

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Can.....can he do that?

[Timoleon of Korinthos]

When you say all rules, do you mean all rules. Like stoning gays to death and allowing slavery?

Does the Pope go around advocating that gays should be stoned and slavery should be legalised? I think not. But assuming he did, even though this would make a great argument for not becoming a Catholic, you would be expected to do precisely that if it was the position of the church and you were a Catholic. You can have a rationalised verse of Catholicism lite, of course, as most people who identify as Catholics do, I imagine, but that would be your formulation of a set of beliefs, not the church's.

So the people who want to be influenced by him, and in Africa due to low education levels convincing people of this isn't that big a sell then he is an authority and in that regard and evil lie selling propaganda toting son of a ?

But what ToK ignores is anyone who can shout a message loud enough can muddy the waters whether they are a massive influence or not. What absolutely isn't needed is someone claiming they don't work because it puts doubt in peoples minds when others are trying to sell them on the idea of using them all the time. He ignores this because like others in the thread he is trying desperately to hide the fact that the Pope and the institution of catholicism has been spreading lies and propaganda in Africa and they are dangerous and immoral lies.

If the Pope is putting doubts' in people's minds about the efficacy of condoms, why is he not putting doubts in their minds about polygamy and sex outside marriage (or the fact that raping virgins does not cure you of HIV), against which he also shouts loud enough and these being messages that he delivers with the very same authority and prestige he denounces the use of condoms?

Nice collection of ad hominems but I am no Catholic, not even a Christian, so I don't feel the 'desperate' need to defend any institution and office. But people doing whatever they want to do and then blaiming it on religious indoctrination, or even more ridiculously others blaming it on their behalf, is pathetic behaviour that I find annoying.

[Menelik_I]

So the people who want to be influenced by him, and in Africa due to low education levels convincing people of this isn't that big a sell then he is an authority and in that regard and evil lie selling propaganda toting son of a ?

But what ToK ignores is anyone who can shout a message loud enough can muddy the waters whether they are a massive influence or not. What absolutely isn't needed is someone claiming they don't work because it puts doubt in peoples minds when others are trying to sell them on the idea of using them all the time. He ignores this because like others in the thread he is trying desperately to hide the fact that the Pope and the institution of catholicism has been spreading lies and propaganda in Africa and they are dangerous and immoral lies.

The funny thing that people forget is that the same Catholic church that campaign against Condoms also campaign for abstinence and marital sex, both things that if done put oneself safe from most STDs.

If someone is so Catholic that He wouldn't use a condom, then He is also Catholic enough to not have sex before the marriage. So you can't blame the Church for the spread of AIDS, unless you want to admit that people are not following the Catholic teachings but then you say that these people are drones following the church.

See where it doesn't make sense ?

[Admiral Piett]

Most good Catholics have never had pre-marital sex. Ever. Even the partner, which is obviously a good Catholic as well. Therefore the church is not promoting the spread of STDs by preaching against every accepted form of protections. Seems legit.

[Denny Crane!]

Does the Pope go around advocating that gays should be stoned and slavery should be legalised? I think not. But assuming he did, even though this would make a great argument for not becoming a Catholic, you would be expected to do precisely that if it was the position of the church and you were a Catholic. You can have a rationalised verse of Catholicism lite, of course, as most people who identify as Catholics do, I imagine, but that would be your formulation of a set of beliefs, not the church's.





If the Pope is putting doubts' in people's minds about the efficacy of condoms, why is he not putting doubts in their minds about polygamy and sex outside marriage (or the fact that raping virgins does not cure you of HIV), against which he also shouts loud enough and these being messages that he delivers with the very same authority and prestige he denounces the use of condoms?

Nice collection of ad hominems but I am no Catholic, not even a Christian, so I don't feel the 'desperate' need to defend any institution and office. But people doing whatever they want to do and then blaiming it on religious indoctrination, or even more ridiculously others blaming it on their behalf, is pathetic behaviour that I find annoying.

Not ignoring human nature means that catholics will inevitably have more than one sexual partner meaning regardless his message spreads aids, and if they aren't catholic then they are only hearing the part about condoms not working because it is human nature to want to have sex but there is much more of a chance thanks to the pope that it is without condoms.

The funny thing that people forget is that the same Catholic church that campaign against Condoms also campaign for abstinence and marital sex, both things that if done put oneself safe from most STDs.

If someone is so Catholic that He wouldn't use a condom, then He is also Catholic enough to not have sex before the marriage. So you can't blame the Church for the spread of AIDS, unless you want to admit that people are not following the Catholic teachings but then you say that these people are drones following the church.

See where it doesn't make sense ?

I see how you ignored the basic message of my post there.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Does the Pope go around advocating that gays should be stoned and slavery should be legalised? I think not.

Love how you don't understand you're proving my point.

[Menelik_I]

I see how you ignored the basic message of my post there.

That people in Africa have low education levels and therefore can be influenced by anybody shouting out-loud ?

As for non catholic being influenced I really doubt it.

Most good Catholics have never had pre-marital sex. Ever. Even the partner, which is obviously a good Catholic as well. Therefore the church is not promoting the spread of STDs by preaching against every accepted form of protections. Seems legit.

If you are such a good catholic that you follow the whole teachings of the Church in matter of sex regarding condoms and abstinence then you are pretty much squared away. Considering the high risk of pregnancy, which in some country such as mine leads to compulsory Marriage and a lot of headache, you would think that someone has already disregarded the Pope message on Abstinence would also disregard it in relation to condoms. Either these people are too dumb to not question the Pope message or they are smart enough to apply it selectively at which case they might as well use a condom.

Are you telling me that Condoms never break ? That people never mishandle their condoms ? That people never take risks they wouldn’t normally because of condoms ?

Now campaigns that focus exclusively on condoms usage have the problem of increasing the number of sexual encounters which increases the risk of AIDS, because Condoms do break rather easily. So actually I could argue that widespread distribution of condoms is the cause in the rise of AIDS.

User-Related Condom Failures

12. Aside from the above considerations on the physical integrity of the condom, one must also remember that condoms are often used improperly. For instance, one might flip the condom over after starting to apply it on the wrong side, allowing sperm, if already present, to be introduced directly into the vagina. Starting intercourse without a condom or taking it off during intercourse, not holding on to the condom during withdrawal, not withdrawing while the penis is erect, reuse of condom, etc., are some other examples of incorrect condom use, which could easily take place. One study shows that in vivo, slipping and rupture of the condom account for 0.1-16.6% and 0.5-6.7% of condom failure, respectively.[53]
The typical, real-life use of condoms is far from perfect; it is rather frequently used inconsistently and incorrectly. This is not difficult to understand, given that consistent use requires an enormous amount of self-discipline (and memory), and correct use requires a relatively meticulous 7-step process, if one follows the guidelines laid down by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.[54] In one of their brochures, the Medical Institute (Texas) says, “When given a basic list of procedures for correct condom use, less than half of sexually active adolescents report they use condoms correctly”.[55] Without going into detail, suffice it to say that the sexual act, because of its instinctive and passionate aspects, and at times the absence of a minimum of self-control, brings along with it the above-mentioned risks before, during and after the use of the condom.
The Medical Institute (Texas) explains the results of inconsistent condom use in the most simple terms: “What if I use them most of the time? You’re at risk. In fact, the CDC says, ‘Used inconsistently (less than 100 percent of the time), condoms offer little more protection than when they are not used at all.’”[56]

Idem

Since we are discussing the Catholic Church why not cite a Cardinal ?

FAMILY VALUES VERSUS SAFE SEX

A Reflection by His Eminence,

ALFONSO CARDINAL LÓPEZ TRUJILLO
President, Pontifical Council for the Family
December 1, 2003

.....

I thought that the Church’s position and the reasons behind it were already well-known. I am quite concerned because people, especially the young, are misled when total protection is seemingly offered to them, while in fact there is no such total protection. Aware of the immensity of the pandemic, while at the same time maintaining the different but complimentary levels of what is moral and what is merely hygienic, I wanted to speak out regarding the need not only to contain the continuous expansion of this pandemic, but also the need to prevent condom users from getting an infection that they previously thought was impossible to get, and which until now has had lethal consequences.

There are persons at risk of being contaminated, even though they think that their sexual relations, from the hygienic point of view, are totally safe. How many fall victim to this error? They would have taken a different attitude, at least to a certain extent, had they been given more valid and objective information. Indeed, a great number of sources giving the correct information on condom ineffectiveness are public, but, apparently many are not well publicized. The mere fact that this discussion has led persons to doubt to a certain extent the effectiveness of condoms in preventing infection is already, I think, a timely service. The reader is invited above all to reflect why, despite the invitation to promiscuity made by the “safe sex” campaign and the distribution of an enormous quantity of prophylactics where the pandemic is more widespread, the problem of infection has become even greater.[10]

....

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/po...hurchCriticism

Who wants some AYDS ?

[The Despondent Mind]

I don't get it , what's up with all the fuss .
Somebody resigned their position because he cannot continue the work for various reasons .

End of story .

[Admiral Piett]

If you are such a good catholic that you follow the whole teachings of the Church in matter of sex regarding condoms and abstinence then you are pretty much squared away. Considering the high risk of pregnancy, which in some country such as mine leads to compulsory Marriage and a lot of headache, you would think that someone has already disregarded the Pope message on Abstinence would also disregard it in relation to condoms. Either these people are too dumb to not question the Pope message or they are smart enough to apply it selectively at which case they might as well use a condom.

Are you telling me that Condoms never break ? That people never mishandle their condoms ? That people never take risks they wouldn’t normally because of condoms ?

You can get STDs even if you refrain from intercourse. The vast majority of people, even if they haven't had intercourse, have at least done 2nd or 3rd base. Very, very few people ever abstain completely from all form of sex before marriage. Besides, many people that do that eventually figure out that they are sexually incompatible but then they are screwed because now they are married and stuck for life according to their religion.

I don't understand the condom comments though. Just because I can still get sick even after I wash and sanitize my hands doesn't mean I'm just going to eat right after I wipe my ass. Pregnancy with condom use is only 10 - 18% depending on user error or slippage. Only 2 - 3% of condoms break and most of them due because people aren't educated in how to use them. Condoms also reduce the chance of contracting HIV by an average of 78%. By blocking access and ridiculing their congregations from education and usage of safe sex, the church is in the way of the best preventions we currently have. If Catholics are so bent out of shape over abortions, then maybe they should stop whining about contraception so that they don't need an abortion in the first place? They should know that people are 'sinful' and they aren't going to be able to resist the temptation to copulate.

[Menelik_I]

You can get STDs even if you refrain from intercourse.

Yes, but the risk is lower than the rist of condom failure as part promiscuous sexual life. Anything is possible, what matters is comparing the risk.

[Denny Crane!]

That people in Africa have low education levels and therefore can be influenced by anybody shouting out-loud ?

As for non catholic being influenced I really doubt it.

No one is that good a catholic, not even the priests. Therefore the Pope is killing Catholics by denying the reality of human nature in favour of puritanical ideologically naive and foolish doctrine instead of teaching abstinence, monogamy AND condoms.

But yeah education is a big issue in Africa and I don't need to tell you that so not sure why you are bringing it up, and yes having a voice of dissent in the promotion of condoms is a big problem.

[Dr Zoidberg]

And here I was thinking the Pope was all about carrying things to their full term...

[s.rwitt]

Oh, you...

[Dr Zoidberg]

Stop flirting with me rwitt...

[mongrel]