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Thread: Legacy Mod Thread: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 1.1 is available 2013-07-23

  1. #61

    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 0.8 Public Beta#2 is available 2013-04-03

    Quote Originally Posted by Iutland View Post
    Thank you for the feedback Gorhaxx, appreciated

    Your Ashigaru note puzzles me, since I've only included a Short Yari Peasant and a Prof. unit as well as a Naginata Peasant and a Prof. unit.
    Just checked again and there are 5 yari units. Peasent Naganita ashigaru and Peasent Yari Ashigaru have exactly the same costs and stats. Naganita Ashigaru and Machi Yari Ashigaru have exactly the same costs and stats. Nagae Yari Ashigaru are the different from the rest. Do you have these in your game?
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  2. #62
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    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 0.8 Public Beta#2 is available 2013-04-03

    I fully support your mode as its unique and hope to gun realisms

    i just login this terrible forum to show you my support

    i can help with research and ideas like i happened to read recently the abyssinian british campaing of 1866(meaning swords vs snider rifles and endfields)

  3. #63

    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 0.8 Public Beta#2 is available 2013-04-03

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorhaax View Post
    Just checked again and there are 5 yari units. Peasent Naganita ashigaru and Peasent Yari Ashigaru have exactly the same costs and stats. Naganita Ashigaru and Machi Yari Ashigaru have exactly the same costs and stats. Nagae Yari Ashigaru are the different from the rest. Do you have these in your game?
    All five are included. The difference is weapon: Naginata, Short Yari, Long Yari. Peasant Ashigaru has of course different stats compared to normal Ashigaru.

    Quote Originally Posted by jo the greek View Post
    I fully support your mode as its unique and hope to gun realisms

    i just login this terrible forum to show you my support

    i can help with research and ideas like i happened to read recently the abyssinian british campaing of 1866(meaning swords vs snider rifles and endfields)
    Thank you Jo, I appreciate your support

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 0.8 Public Beta#2 is available 2013-04-03

    its a very interesting era for me the problem in the game is how to represent the various rifles used and the way of firing of that time. For example beyond distance 400 meters it would be difficult to target something for an inexsperienced but that mass formations made targeting easier . British Manuals suggested to use beaten zone tactics simila to artillery.
    and similar details like Some rifles didnt used the same types of ammo some would leave you alive and able to fight others if wound you werent in no position to fight.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 0.8 Public Beta#2 is available 2013-04-03

    Quote Originally Posted by jo the greek View Post
    its a very interesting era for me the problem in the game is how to represent the various rifles used and the way of firing of that time. For example beyond distance 400 meters it would be difficult to target something for an inexsperienced but that mass formations made targeting easier . British Manuals suggested to use beaten zone tactics simila to artillery.
    and similar details like Some rifles didnt used the same types of ammo some would leave you alive and able to fight others if wound you werent in no position to fight.
    It is correct that it is difficult to represent the different small arms correctly without destroying gameplay ;-)
    I was a professional NCO in the army many years ago and I can tell you that it is very difficult to hit a single man-size target beoynd 200-250 meters with a modern rifle. I think it would be even more impossible in the mid 19th century with the cartridges used?
    A hit in the torso region would make you unable to continue fighting, and any other hits, with the large caliber rifles used during that period, would also do considerable damage to the body.

    The way I have implemented small arms combat in RSM is how I perceive it based on experience and research, and at the same time not trying to degrade gameplay ;-)


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  6. #66
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    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 0.8 Public Beta#2 is available 2013-04-03

    i see well i percieve i think gunpowder era exp doesnt work so much in favor or reload rates or accurancy but more in Favor of Morale . like in Last samurai first battle/.

    Ιf you like i can post some info like training manuals or records from colonial battles. just to help i think you should know already british battles i dont think has much info on it

    and i forgot
    The rifle used by prussians in Francoprussian war for example was pretty harmless had short range quick rate of fire high rate to brake and its bullets werent so lethal vs human targets plus i have read an event that France cuirassiers shot from distance were able to get on foot alive after been hit from it . Thats an example how difficult to represent a realistic mode but also this thing can make the game really interesting the rifle name was called dreyse rifle
    Last edited by jo the greek; April 30, 2013 at 04:18 PM.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 0.8 Public Beta#2 is available 2013-04-03

    Quote Originally Posted by jo the greek View Post
    i see well i percieve i think gunpowder era exp doesnt work so much in favor or reload rates or accurancy but more in Favor of Morale . like in Last samurai first battle/.

    Ιf you like i can post some info like training manuals or records from colonial battles. just to help i think you should know already british battles i dont think has much info on it

    and i forgot
    The rifle used by prussians in Francoprussian war for example was pretty harmless had short range quick rate of fire high rate to brake and its bullets werent so lethal vs human targets plus i have read an event that France cuirassiers shot from distance were able to get on foot alive after been hit from it . Thats an example how difficult to represent a realistic mode but also this thing can make the game really interesting the rifle name was called dreyse rifle
    Yes, please post the relevant information you have :-)

    I know the Dreyse needle gun and wiki state it has an effective range of 600 meters. Effective range doesn't mean you are able to hit anything at that range ;-)

    Regarding the Cuirassiers, I imagine that they were hit in their Cuirass meaning that the Dreyse wasn't armour piercing at greater ranges.

    I think I will have to do a general update of the Boshin BAI settings.


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  8. #68
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    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 0.8 Public Beta#2 is available 2013-04-03

    Info i will add from time time
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD0JQnokwu0
    Some relative info can be found on this book
    http://books.google.gr/books?id=HvE_...%20war&f=false
    also refers to the snider rifle that i will try to post about Snider was shipped in large quantinties and was an evolution of Civil war rifles types and from what i read had similar ballistics.

    A british battle fough with Civil war rifles and maybe muskets(as arms for the british indian units) A medieval chinese army vs a modern one (the mongol cavalry was considered elite for chinese stantars) i havent fight an accurate description yet
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Palikao
    The first use of Snider rifle in major battle a tottaly different army than above consisting from Spear and shield infantry army as you can see the results were devastating
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Magdala
    Last edited by jo the greek; May 03, 2013 at 07:11 AM.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 0.8 Public Beta#2 is available 2013-04-03

    Quote Originally Posted by jo the greek View Post
    Info i will add from time time
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD0JQnokwu0
    Some relative info can be found on this book
    http://books.google.gr/books?id=HvE_...%20war&f=false
    also refers to the snider rifle that i will try to post about Snider was shipped in large quantinties and was an evolution of Civil war rifles types and from what i read had similar ballistics.

    A british battle fough with Civil war rifles and maybe muskets(as arms for the british indian units) A medieval chinese army vs a modern one (the mongol cavalry was considered elite for chinese stantars) i havent fight an accurate description yet
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Palikao
    The first use of Snider rifle in major battle a tottaly different army than above consisting from Spear and shield infantry army as you can see the results were devastating
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Magdala
    Thank you very much Jo it is very helpful. I had to reevaluate and implement the Boshin projectiles and weapons vs allegiance again, and I think it works better now :-)


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  10. #70
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    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 0.8 Public Beta#2 is available 2013-04-03

    Iutland, since you added some Smoothbore Bronze Artillery, You maybe interested in adding Mortars and Howitzers...their high trajectory will be useful.

    Well, in short...do you Interested in some concepts just like in my own Mod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-v-3-12-1-2013 (Artillery)
    and http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Uniform-Tweaks ?(Except the Rapid Advance part, its ridiculously too fast)

    I say Sharpshooter's Range should be Increased, but with very low reload rates.

    I also notice you haven't included Bayonets...It's a must for 19th century Mods...

    Both jo and I agree that lowering max_elevation of naval bombardment projectile will make the game more realistic...make it 30-25 so the shells would fall in a realistic angle, not falling from space.

    Ah...Our buddy jo the Greek here also have some things in his mind...
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...7#post12836417
    So then, Rather than making a new "Shotgun Cavalry" with all of the lines and rows after rows of db tables, why not simply renaming "Revolver Cavalry" at the .loc tables? The unit itself shall have incredibly short-ranged (less than 25m-ish) 9-pellet projectile with spread of 1, low damage(0.6-0.4) per shot. Animation and Equipment change. Easier than making an entirely new unit. Something like the unit that trades charge bonus with "ranged charge"

    And Also on the Ironclads: The possibility of Western Powers selling their top Ironclads aside(Except for all of those Experimental US Ironclads hulked after the Civil War...)
    Now, I'm thinking of maybe Raising the Cap of Warrior Class to 2, but nerfing its hull strength (The bow and stern were historically unarmored); and in another hand strengthening The L'Ocean Class hull (its an more advanced Ironclad compared to the Warrior).

    ...And if you like it, upgunning the Armored Kanko Maru into breechloader_cannon_large (its a stable paddlewheeler larger than Kanrin Maru, but only carries 6 guns...)
    also changing the Gatling Gun on Kotetsu's Casemate (not the ones on the deck) into Cannons.
    Last edited by weirdoascensor; May 17, 2013 at 12:10 PM.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 0.8 Public Beta#2 is available 2013-04-03

    I have some other stuff and i will post later but here are some pics




    AS you can see above Red Bear infantry uses swords which generally i have some thoughts during that era .

    Armored units should be more tough to kill as with Minie balls were very very lethal and armor would made the wound worse.


    I believe that samurai related units or infantry should have high melee either gunpowder or not . But Units that are just rough recruits or not samurai related should lack high melee and high moral

    like in the movie of last samurai. It is logic i think.

    I was reading some CIvil war books and the usual range that used to shoot was about 300 yards and the ballistics of Minie ball is kinda weird. I am not quite sure but bullets at 300 yards should fell either short or further than the enemy line that has to do with bad accurancy cause of distance Offcourse Sharpshooters should shoot furhter and with high accurancy as exp infantry.

    On cavalry i think Armored samurai should tired easily but should be one of the best cavalries in the game plus Units as revolver cavalry shoould either removed or weakened with a smalled distance but gaining a more good melee and should shoot only the first in line horsemen. Revolver was used individually not to shoot mass volleys and while was lethal shooting from horse was difficult and risky. (plus revolvers was a rare thing even in USA back then).

  12. #72

    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 0.8 Public Beta#2 is available 2013-04-03

    Quote Originally Posted by weirdoascensor View Post
    Iutland, since you added some Smoothbore Bronze Artillery, You maybe interested in adding Mortars and Howitzers...their high trajectory will be useful.

    Well, in short...do you Interested in some concepts just like in my own Mod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-v-3-12-1-2013 (Artillery)
    and http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Uniform-Tweaks ?(Except the Rapid Advance part, its ridiculously too fast)

    I say Sharpshooter's Range should be Increased, but with very low reload rates.

    I also notice you haven't included Bayonets...It's a must for 19th century Mods...

    Both jo and I agree that lowering max_elevation of naval bombardment projectile will make the game more realistic...make it 30-25 so the shells would fall in a realistic angle, not falling from space.

    Ah...Our buddy jo the Greek here also have some things in his mind...
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...7#post12836417
    So then, Rather than making a new "Shotgun Cavalry" with all of the lines and rows after rows of db tables, why not simply renaming "Revolver Cavalry" at the .loc tables? The unit itself shall have incredibly short-ranged (less than 25m-ish) 9-pellet projectile with spread of 1, low damage(0.6-0.4) per shot. Animation and Equipment change. Easier than making an entirely new unit. Something like the unit that trades charge bonus with "ranged charge"

    And Also on the Ironclads: The possibility of Western Powers selling their top Ironclads aside(Except for all of those Experimental US Ironclads hulked after the Civil War...)
    Now, I'm thinking of maybe Raising the Cap of Warrior Class to 2, but nerfing its hull strength (The bow and stern were historically unarmored); and in another hand strengthening The L'Ocean Class hull (its an more advanced Ironclad compared to the Warrior).

    ...And if you like it, upgunning the Armored Kanko Maru into breechloader_cannon_large (its a stable paddlewheeler larger than Kanrin Maru, but only carries 6 guns...)
    also changing the Gatling Gun on Kotetsu's Casemate (not the ones on the deck) into Cannons.
    What a mouthful of ideas and suggestions ;-) I will try to address some of them:

    Bayonets are already included in 0.8 as well as some of the other ideas from your fine mods.

    I have reworked the FOTS rifle stats for upcoming 1.0 and also increased the range of sharpshooters to 320 meters, of course with less accuracy at extreme range.

    I have lowered the trajectory of naval artillery support as suggested.

    L'Ocean already has higher hull strength than Warrior class ;-) and I agree that limits could be raised.

    I will think about the other suggestions.

    Thanks :-)
    Iutland




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  13. #73

    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 0.8 Public Beta#2 is available 2013-04-03

    Quote Originally Posted by jo the greek View Post
    I have some other stuff and i will post later but here are some pics




    AS you can see above Red Bear infantry uses swords which generally i have some thoughts during that era .

    Armored units should be more tough to kill as with Minie balls were very very lethal and armor would made the wound worse.


    I believe that samurai related units or infantry should have high melee either gunpowder or not . But Units that are just rough recruits or not samurai related should lack high melee and high moral

    like in the movie of last samurai. It is logic i think.

    I was reading some CIvil war books and the usual range that used to shoot was about 300 yards and the ballistics of Minie ball is kinda weird. I am not quite sure but bullets at 300 yards should fell either short or further than the enemy line that has to do with bad accurancy cause of distance Offcourse Sharpshooters should shoot furhter and with high accurancy as exp infantry.

    On cavalry i think Armored samurai should tired easily but should be one of the best cavalries in the game plus Units as revolver cavalry shoould either removed or weakened with a smalled distance but gaining a more good melee and should shoot only the first in line horsemen. Revolver was used individually not to shoot mass volleys and while was lethal shooting from horse was difficult and risky. (plus revolvers was a rare thing even in USA back then).
    Hey Jo

    Thank you for posting your suggestions and feedback

    I have been busy updating the mod towards 1.0 release planned for late May/early June. One of the updates include a rework of the of the unit armour/melee/defence/morale stats of all units and one of the issues with vanilla that has always annoyed me. Armoured units now have higher armour stats of course and are much harder to kill unless hit by an armour piercing projectile (bullet). It also means that it will take 3 or more Ashigaru units to kill a Samurai unit and a Samurai archer unit will not be defeated by an Ashigary unit. Hero units are now true elite units and Monks are no longer Supermen, just skilled fanatics

    The same goes for FOTS and ROTS of course.

    I have updated the FOTS projectile stats as you asked me to, thanks which means that Rifle ranges vary between 150 meters to 320 meters with best stats to Sharpshooters. I agree with the point about Revolver cavalry but haven't decided how to edit them yet.

    All:

    The 1.0 update includes lot of other interesting stuff as well including reworked CAI and BAI as indicated above. More to follow!

  14. #74

    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 1.0 is available 2013-05-27

    RSM version 1.0 is now available It includes the following changes:

    Campaign play:
    All three campaigns extensively modified at various levels, which should result in a different gameplay compared to vanilla S2TW.

    Shogun2 campaign modified in terms of:

    • Campaign end dates extended
    • More major factions than before
    • Start economy
    • Faction Leaders traits and abilities
    • Generals’ traits and abilities
    • Technology research priorities
    • Oda and Tokugawa are at peace from the outset



    RotS campaign extensively modified in terms of:

    • Campaign end dates extended
    • Expanded and altered victory conditions
    • Playable factions cannot change allegiance
    • Allegiance for non-playable factions modified meaning that Taira is supported by appr. 55%, Minamoto by appr. 30% and Fujiwara by appr. 15%
    • Campaign map colours edited: Red variants denotes Taira allegiance from campaign outset. Blue variants denotes Minamoto allegiance from campaign outset. Green variants denotes Fujiwara allegiance from campaign outset.
    • Diplomacy matches new allegiances
    • Start economy
    • Faction Leaders traits and abilities
    • Generals’ traits and abilities
    • Some technologies already researched at campaign outset
    • Technology research priorities



    FotS campaign extensively modified in terms of:

    • Campaign end dates extended
    • More major factions than before
    • Expanded and altered victory conditions
    • Playable factions cannot change allegiance
    • A few non-playable factions changed allegiance
    • Campaign map colours edited: Red variants denotes Imperial allegiance from campaign outset. Blue variants denotes Shogunate allegiance from campaign outset.
    • Diplomacy matches new allegiances
    • Start economy
    • Start building levels modified in certain regions
    • Faction Leaders traits and abilities
    • Generals’ traits and abilities
    • Some technologies already researched at campaign outset
    • Technology research priorities
    • French equipment (except lower tier cannons) is only available to Shogunate allegiance factions.
    • British equipment (except lower tier cannons) is only available to Imperial allegiance factions.
    • U.S. equipment (except lower tier cannons) is available to every faction.
    • Naval gunfire support modified and expect lower trajectories during battle



    Other campaign changes:

    • Campaign map and battle banners and mons (a number of new mons added) modified for Shogun2 and FotS. Together with ACC (included) this should increase the overall immersion while playing the game
    • Faction leader models (uniforms etc.) are modified. This also applies for the faction selection screen and battles during campaign play and tries to resemble historical resources etc.
    • General models (uniforms etc.) are modified and more diverse (interesting IMO) than before. This also applies for battles during campaign play
    • Campaign map zoom limits increased (activated using ESC key during campaign intro)
    • Campaign map shroud removed turn#1 only (activated using ESC key during campaign intro)
    • Some Shogun2 Faction Leaders have special Hatamoto variants
    • General skill trees slightly modified



    Battle play:

    • Most unit “uniform” variants are updated since RSM 0.8
    • Samurai units are now the elite on the battlefield with increased armour and stats. It will require 3 or more Ashigaru units to defeat a Samurai unit. To compensate Ashigaru recruitment cost and upkeep is lowered a bit
    • Hero units and Hatamotos now has truly Hero stats meaning that they are much harder to kill
    • Monks are no longer Supermen. Instead they are skilled fanatics. Recruitment cost and upkeep is lowered accordingly
    • Samurai, Hero and Monk “uniform” variants updated to match the actual armour level/stat
    • Arrow damage, reload time, accuracy and ranges changed since RSM 0.8 and should be more historically correct. Samurai Bow units scores more hits and penetrate more armour than Ashigaru Bow units. Higher Draw-weight means higher arrow velocity, longer range and penetration force
    • Musket/Rifle/Revolver projectiles damage, reload time, accuracy and ranges changed since RSM 0.8 and are based on historical resources and modified for gameplay purposes
    • In FotS rifle ranges varies from 140 meters (militia) to 320 meters (sharpshooters) and units are equipped with French/British/U.S. rifles based on starting allegiance.
    • Bow units have all rank fire ability whereas cavalry firearm units can only from first rank
    • FotS Kanko Maru Corvette has increased armament whereas Kanrin maru has decreased armament compared to RSM 0.8
    • FotS Kotetsu Ironclad has an increased number of cannons and less gatling guns
    • FotS iron-plated ships have increased armament compared to their wood or copper plated variants
    • Toyotomi Hideyoshi added to custom battle play


    • General command rating modified for custom battle play

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 1.0 is available 2013-05-27

    Iutland, your new generals are really good-looking (and historical too!) but Imo you should implement this http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Otomo-Sorin%29 (bulldog gave the permission for use his mod to everyone, so he will give it to you too for sure!)

    Good work again! +rep
    Last edited by VENNONETES; May 29, 2013 at 10:27 AM.


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  16. #76
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    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 1.0 is available 2013-05-27

    Great work! A couple of points:
    1. I still think that you should change the look of the shogun guard.
    2. I am not sure about allowing only the first row to fire for the cavalry units. They are meant to be used as mobile infantry so could you perhaps give them kneel fire or something?
    3. The bear units should use swords. Unless I am mistaken they were not particularly well-trained in melee combat(nowhere near shogitai level) so melee stats slightly better than imperial infantry should be enough.
    ''Πας μη Έλλην, βάρβαρος.''

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 1.0 is available 2013-05-27



    Won the POTW Gold medal at 15 years, 7 months, and 198 days on 25/12/2013 ^_^

    Proudly one of the 5 who won the POTW silver medal! (won it at 14 years, 10 months and 24 days on 31/03/2013 at 03.03 PM GMT +1)


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  18. #78
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    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 1.0 is available 2013-05-27

    cool lol sad thing i have to start new campaing to test falll of samurai

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 1.0 is available 2013-05-27

    Hey can I ask a Small favor, Can you make a pak. file of just the unit and unit changes and all that, I have downloaded and used your mod and I loved it, and I loved what you did with units themsleves, just a small request, thanks.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Land of the Rising Sun Mod Version 1.0 is available 2013-05-27

    Quote Originally Posted by Elianus View Post
    Great work! A couple of points:
    1. I still think that you should change the look of the shogun guard.
    2. I am not sure about allowing only the first row to fire for the cavalry units. They are meant to be used as mobile infantry so could you perhaps give them kneel fire or something?
    3. The bear units should use swords. Unless I am mistaken they were not particularly well-trained in melee combat(nowhere near shogitai level) so melee stats slightly better than imperial infantry should be enough.
    Thanks Elianus

    I did change the Shogun Guard during the last update although I kept a dark blue colour. Perhaps it should be more blackish as shown in this clip:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnmawhCDmv0

    I have noted your other feedback comments for future updates, thanks+Rep

    Quote Originally Posted by VENNONETES View Post
    Thank you as always+Rep

    Quote Originally Posted by jo the greek View Post
    cool lol sad thing i have to start new campaing to test falll of samurai
    You could continue your current campaign, only the new start conditions in the campaign file are not activated

    Quote Originally Posted by Sengoku Sushi View Post
    Hey can I ask a Small favor, Can you make a pak. file of just the unit and unit changes and all that, I have downloaded and used your mod and I loved it, and I loved what you did with units themsleves, just a small request, thanks.
    I don't know when I am able to spare/allocate 4-5 hours of my time doing that?? You could learn how to use Pack File manager yourself, it is quite easy to use

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