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Thread: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

  1. #401

    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikitn View Post
    Actually, it's the US which is using gunboat-diplomacy: China just has a few disagreements with its neighbours over borders and the US is using this to muscle its way in and indirectly fight China (just like UK during the 19th century). I'm fairly sure that without US influence, Vietnam and South Korea would surrender the useless plots of disputed area to China (like Russia did) and we wouldn't be talking about this.
    What an insane post. Yes, I'm sure Vietnam and Korea would happily cede the lion's share of their maritime territories to China. Also, this isn't about "useless plots of disputed area". This is about fishing grounds, oil, gas, and direct access to the open ocean.

  2. #402
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    This is about fishing grounds, oil, gas, and direct access to the open ocean.
    That belongs to us (Taiwan), dammit.

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  3. #403

    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  4. #404
    Jom's Avatar A Place of Greater Safety
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikitn View Post
    Actually, it's the US which is using gunboat-diplomacy: China just has a few disagreements with its neighbours over borders and the US is using this to muscle its way in and indirectly fight China (just like UK during the 19th century). I'm fairly sure that without US influence, Vietnam and South Korea would surrender the useless plots of disputed area to China (like Russia did) and we wouldn't be talking about this.

    Indeed, the US has no business even being in that area.
    Your bias shines through here: the USA shouldn't interfere with other country's territory; it should just let China interfere with other country's territory instead because China happens to not be the USA. It's also funny that you describe the area as "useless" and imply that that's a good reason not to hold onto it and just pass it over to China. Why should China get "useless" land? What good reason do you have for this argument except your anti-US bias?
    Last edited by Darth Red; February 20, 2013 at 10:22 AM. Reason: continuity

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  5. #405

    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Because the Chinese were controlling those areas before the European colonial powers & Japan came?

    What an insane post. Yes, I'm sure Vietnam and Korea would happily cede the lion's share of their maritime territories to China. Also, this isn't about "useless plots of disputed area". This is about fishing grounds, oil, gas, and direct access to the open ocean.
    Unless you are referring to the islands in the South China sea (which nobody controls and thus isn't relevant to this discussion), your reply is senseless. The area which S. Korea has controls and should be given up is a worthless rock - giving it over to China would only improve relations with China, and piss off some S. Korean nationalists. Probably the same with Vietnam and Japan.

  6. #406
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikitn View Post
    Actually, it's the US which is using gunboat-diplomacy: China just has a few disagreements with its neighbours over borders and the US is using this to muscle its way in and indirectly fight China (just like UK during the 19th century). I'm fairly sure that without US influence, Vietnam and South Korea would surrender the useless plots of disputed area to China (like Russia did) and we wouldn't be talking about this.

    Indeed, the US has no business even being in that area.
    You simply have no knowledge or clouded by propaganda so much

    I have little idea about Korea (don't know much about their history) yet Vietnam need no "US influence" to back her about disputation. Vietnamese have no fear of China, they stand alone again the big bullier for thousand years, witness countless invasion from China and still stand.

    If the big bullier named China can take those seas then sooner or later it will lay claim another things like: "According to history, the Great Han policies and the old map of Tang Dynasty whole of Vietnam, Korea, Mongol, Siberia, bla...bla...bla...bla and America (Chinese claim they discovered America first) belong to China!"

    And what's "useless plots" you say!? South China Sea/Vietnam's East Sea/West Philippines sea contented so much interest
    Last edited by Darth Red; February 20, 2013 at 10:22 AM. Reason: continuity

  7. #407

    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    So China is allowed to meddle in the regions politics based off of centuries old claims on areas they actually haven't had control over for centuries but the US isn't allowed to back up it's allies in the region who would more than likely stand up to chinese on their own and bring a greater level of instability to the region? What the ?

  8. #408

    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Maybe a land war will get the Chinese nothing, but war at sea requires actual warships and weapon systems, something that SEA countries lack in large enough numbers to protect their claimed maritime territories.
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  9. #409
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikitn View Post
    Actually, it's the US which is using gunboat-diplomacy: China just has a few disagreements with its neighbours over borders and the US is using this to muscle its way in and indirectly fight China (just like UK during the 19th century). I'm fairly sure that without US influence, Vietnam and South Korea would surrender the useless plots of disputed area to China (like Russia did) and we wouldn't be talking about this.

    Indeed, the US has no business even being in that area.
    Source that the US is trying to fight China? And a source that the US is threatening small Southeast Asian counties? North Korea doesn't count because it is an irrational state.
    Last edited by Darth Red; February 20, 2013 at 10:23 AM. Reason: continuity



  10. #410
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikitn View Post
    Actually, it's the US which is using gunboat-diplomacy: China just has a few disagreements with its neighbours over borders and the US is using this to muscle its way in and indirectly fight China (just like UK during the 19th century). I'm fairly sure that without US influence, Vietnam and South Korea would surrender the useless plots of disputed area to China (like Russia did) and we wouldn't be talking about this.

    Indeed, the US has no business even being in that area.
    Hmm, you don't know what "gun boat diplomacy" is either. Well, add it to the list.

  11. #411

    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthShizNit View Post
    So China is allowed to meddle in the regions politics based off of centuries old claims on areas they actually haven't had control over for centuries but the US isn't allowed to back up it's allies in the region who would more than likely stand up to chinese on their own and bring a greater level of instability to the region? What the ?
    Meddle? China has been disputing that korean rock for ages. The chinese claim doesnt come from nowhere.

    And who here is seriously suggesting China is "stealing" the south china sea? That area has never been under anyones control ever. All the SE asian states are bickering over it now due to the oil there, with US joining the fray with its "allies" and its gunboat diplomacy.

  12. #412
    HissingNewt's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Notice that this article doesn't include enforcing international law or protecting allies:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunboat_diplomacy
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  13. #413
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikitn View Post
    Meddle? China has been disputing that korean rock for ages. The chinese claim doesnt come from nowhere.

    And who here is seriously suggesting China is "stealing" the south china sea? That area has never been under anyones control ever. All the SE asian states are bickering over it now due to the oil there, with US joining the fray with its "allies" and its gunboat diplomacy.
    Source for this gunboat diplomacy?



  14. #414
    Border Patrol's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikitn View Post
    Meddle? China has been disputing that korean rock for ages. The chinese claim doesnt come from nowhere.

    And who here is seriously suggesting China is "stealing" the south china sea? That area has never been under anyones control ever. All the SE asian states are bickering over it now due to the oil there, with US joining the fray with its "allies" and its gunboat diplomacy.
    You've seen the line, right? It would be like Britain claiming the Bay of Biscay. Their claims touch land in Indonesia and literally all of Vietnam. As in China claims the beaches of ing Vietnam. All of them. You're trying to defend this now. Reassess your bias brue.
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  15. #415

    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Obviously they do not. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Sea_claims.jpg

    Both Vietnam, China, the Philippines and others claim the islands in the area. That the Chinese claims are a bit more optimistic than the rest doesn't change the fact that nobody has ever owned these islands, and thus it is ridiculous to proclaim China is claiming others' sea-areas.

  16. #416

    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikitn View Post
    Because the Chinese were controlling those areas before the European colonial powers & Japan came?
    Right, so we Germans can claim Poland on that ground? After all, it was ours before the dirty allies came meddling. By the way, what happened to Königsberg?


    Unless you are referring to the islands in the South China sea (which nobody controls and thus isn't relevant to this discussion), your reply is senseless. The area which S. Korea has controls and should be given up is a worthless rock - giving it over to China would only improve relations with China, and piss off some S. Korean nationalists. Probably the same with Vietnam and Japan.
    There isn't such a thing as a "worthless rock" in maritime issues. Every island brings with it a region of surrounding sea and has some strategic importance of its own. Owning some "worthless rock" like Diaoyu can decide about whether China has direct access to the open sea or not.
    Also, China claiming the coastal waters of Vietnam and Malaysia is not even remotely justifiable, it's just insolent.

  17. #417
    Trey's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikitn View Post
    Obviously they do not. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Sea_claims.jpg

    Both Vietnam, China, the Philippines and others claim the islands in the area. That the Chinese claims are a bit more optimistic than the rest doesn't change the fact that nobody has ever owned these islands, and thus it is ridiculous to proclaim China is claiming others' sea-areas.
    LOL "a bit more optimistic than the rest", I'll have to use that one sometime.

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  18. #418

    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    There isn't such a thing as a "worthless rock" in maritime issues. Every island brings with it a region of surrounding sea and has some strategic importance of its own. Owning some "worthless rock" like Diaoyu can decide about whether China has direct access to the open sea or not.
    The rock is underwater, so it isn't counted as land. Also @lol@ at the rock having any sort military importance.

    Also, China claiming the coastal waters of Vietnam and Malaysia is not even remotely justifiable, it's just insolent.
    China has been claiming those islands just like Vietnam, Malaysia and the Philippines. And I wouldn't call their eagerness "insolence" - more an attempt at strengthening their bargaining position. Regardless, my point was that all sides in the area have insane claims, not just China. As written on wikipedia, this is a border dispute among many nations, not China bullying everybody and stealing their oceans like the ridiculous OP-video portrays it.

    Last edited by Nikitn; February 20, 2013 at 03:11 PM.

  19. #419
    Derpy Hooves's Avatar Bombs for Muffins
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikitn View Post
    Obviously they do not. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Sea_claims.jpg

    Both Vietnam, China, the Philippines and others claim the islands in the area. That the Chinese claims are a bit more optimistic than the rest doesn't change the fact that nobody has ever owned these islands, and thus it is ridiculous to proclaim China is claiming others' sea-areas.
    Ever heard of this thing called the Exclusive Economic Zone? It's this little thing that says that a country's maritime border extends 200 miles off their coast. China is claiming more than that 200 coastal miles.



  20. #420
    Jom's Avatar A Place of Greater Safety
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    So you don't think that China's claim cutting a broad swathe through every other country's normal territorial claim is unreasonable at all?

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