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Thread: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

  1. #561
    sephodwyrm's Avatar Sohei
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    China did not lay any serious claim on them until the nationalist era. This isn't the first time China has pulled anything stupid about it either, considering they killed 70 Vietnamese troops in '74. They then killed 60 Vietnamise seamen in the 80s as well.
    China did not lay any serious claim on these areas because of this Chinese concept:
    All your bases are belong to us. You pay tribute. We give gifts.

    And then Western powers arrived to introduce modern concepts of sovereignty and jurisdiction.

    About ethnic makeup of Taiwanese people, 98% are Han Chinese.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
    Han, again, is a super-ethnic group.
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  2. #562
    athanaric's Avatar Equites Alares
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Chukada1 View Post
    The only yellow people can be found in Springfield, USA and areas with outbreaks of jaundice.
    It's more practical to call people by their skin colour, whether exaggerated or not, than making up retarded terms.


    Sure, under your terminology.
    Also called "English".


    Just accept that different countries use the same words differently, and concede that your post really had no relevance, as you are picking apart a non-existent mistake.
    I'm picking apart that you're apparently seeing the world through a Chinese imperialist lens.

  3. #563
    Chukada1's Avatar Sagittarius
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    It's more practical to call people by their skin colour, whether exaggerated or not, than making up retarded terms.


    Also called "English".


    I'm picking apart that you're apparently seeing the world through a Chinese imperialist lens.
    I live in Canada, where real English is spoken.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
    Probably due to the fact that compared to the stench that is China's human rights record, Britain, including it's Empire, look positively decent.

  4. #564
    MariusHealth's Avatar Signifer
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Soooooooooo to clear out some misconceptions... there are two Chinas claiming to be THE China. We often equate Chinese with being a PRC citizen. Because we forget or ignore the ROC. Because the ROC only rules Taiwan while China rules most of the rests of their claims. Like Tibet which the West again doesn't see as Chinese... The Chinese speak Chinese. I mean Mandarin, which is a language. Or maybe a group of languages. And there are other Chinese langu... I mean dialects. Yes, because calling them part of the same language implies that they're all part of the same nation. All under heaven. Imagine Germany using such retorics haha! Also when talking about reunification we mean what -the PRC annexing the ROC? How about the opposite? Not gonna happen I know, but still.

    Regarding the Caucasian/yellow questions. If we are not to refer to them as mongoloid, yellow or whatever then what do we say? I'm easily mislead by the term Asian.

    Caucasian as well - I would naturally envision a Georgian or the like while to an American it means white? Are Arabs Caucasian? I wouldn't usually call an Arab white.

  5. #565
    Condottiere 40K's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Arabs are Semitic. Mostly.

    Colloguially, Caucasian implies a Western/Northern European origin.

  6. #566
    PikeStance's Avatar Imperial Splendour- PM
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    Arabs are Semitic. Mostly.

    Colloquially, Caucasian implies a Western/Northern European origin.
    Colloquially to where?
    This is the problem with "race." It is subjective.
    Semitic is not a racial designation, it is a language group.

    It is probably better to divide groups based on the haplogroups than subjectively on race.
    At least is more objective. Another form is too examine language families distribution, but this too is subjective. If you use in conjunction with genetic research it is less so.

    If you check out the Haplogroups you will quickly discovered just how diverse the distribution really is. Even China, who on first inspection appear similar, are a very diverse genetic pool. I have to say, i am starting to pick out significant differences that I didn't see before.

    What is really interesting is that there are greater differences between early homo sapiens and modern homo sapiens than there are among the different groups inhabiting the planet today.

  7. #567
    Slaytaninc's Avatar Pili Posterior
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    This whole thread jumped on the crazy train pages ago.

    EDIT: It just amuses me that the same people continue to address the same things ad infinitum.
    Last edited by Slaytaninc; February 25, 2013 at 09:24 AM.
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  8. #568
    Exarch's Avatar Praefectus Castrorum
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    You may be better suited to speak about Taiwan but your knowledge about British colonization seems to be rather limited. The British government was generally not keen on killing or slaughering the local population. This could at times bring them into conflict with the colonists (like for example the British government preferring to keep colonials to the east of the Appalachians and trade with the Indians) but genocide was not the preferred British method for conquest.
    with respect, Adar, my knowledge of British colonisation is not that limited. British colonial conduct towards say the native Australian aboriginals can't be defined as anything other than extermination and cultural genocide.

    btw i hope people here realise that thinking you can only be a han in order to be Chinese is the same way as believing you can only be WASP (white anglo saxon protestant) to be a true american. Utter ridiculousness.
    Last edited by Exarch; March 14, 2013 at 12:34 AM.

  9. #569
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    If Qing China sets a historical precedence, then the line would be in the Gulf of Tonkin as of the peace made with France in 1887.

    If they settled for the Paracel island, then they would be playing in the same league as everyone else in the area but the 9 dash line is just stupid.
    The line is in/right through the Gulf of Tonkin and if they claim the Spratelys are Chinese the red line makes kind of sense even if it is not very diplomatic? That Taiwan settles for the Paracels as the southernmost part of Taiwan is no concern of Communist China which sees itself as successor of the Chinese Qing Empire.
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
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  10. #570
    JasonDomination's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    This would be fantastic for a total war game. Total War: Politics. You could pick whichever side of an argument and battle it out over the interwebs. The game would never end, either.

  11. #571
    Condottiere 40K's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    DLC: Sock Puppets - five euros.

  12. #572
    PikeStance's Avatar Imperial Splendour- PM
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonDomination View Post
    This would be fantastic for a total war game. Total War: Politics. You could pick whichever side of an argument and battle it out over the interwebs. The game would never end, either.
    You might want to check out the gaming forums on TWC. I am sure there is a game with a geopolitical angle.
    If you like this sort of thing, you could play the game Diplomacy on line. Exercise caution when choosing to join a game- they do have cheaters (metagamers)- they do their best to catch them, but they don't always do. It is best to go in the forum and join games that way.

  13. #573
    Erwin Rommel's Avatar EYE-PATCH FETISH
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America


    (Its clickable by the way....An S2 overhaul mod.)

    Seriously. Click it. Its the only overhaul mod that's overhauling enough to bring out NEW clans
    Masaie. Retainer of Akaie|AntonIII






  14. #574
    Condottiere 40K's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    I think that Abraham emigrated from Hunan to the Levant.

  15. #575
    sleepyx732's Avatar Hastatus
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    "Let me be clear, no one wants another cold war. With US leading an anti China coalition forcing every nation to take sides. But they definitely want us there, supporting them to defend their rights. We now have more places for ships than we have ships to send."

    Yes.. we are very anti china.

    We're only their biggest trading partner and coincidentally most jobs lost get shipped over there. Dare I neglect to mention all that big bad debt we owe them. Those ships.. in the Asia Pacific.. exactly what do people think they are there for?

    China.. you rebel
    Let 'Em Have it & Take it Away

  16. #576
    Discens
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Interesting panel, the harder China pushes, the more countries move into America's camp. This could actually end up helping us more than it hurts us.

  17. #577
    Palmetto's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Daishi View Post
    Interesting panel, the harder China pushes, the more countries move into America's camp. This could actually end up helping us more than it hurts us.
    Yeah, but it could end up increasing spending to protect them. I'm all for a large military to protect American interests, but we don't need to protect a bunch of little countries cowering under us.
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  18. #578
    Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by Palmetto View Post
    Yeah, but it could end up increasing spending to protect them. I'm all for a large military to protect American interests, but we don't need to protect a bunch of little countries cowering under us.
    Remember, USA also have their selfish reason to help the bunch of little countries. Without USA military alliance, most of the country there will try to get nuke to defend themselves. Something that i doubt that USA want to happen. Japan and Korea already have the ability. if Pakistan, North Korea and India can do it, it's easy for the rest of Asean country to make their own nuke if they really have to.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes...weapon_program
    While there are currently no known plans in Japan to produce nuclear weapons, it has been argued Japan has the technology, raw materials, and the capital to produce nuclear weapons within one year if necessary, and some analysts consider it a de facto nuclear state for this reason.[28] For this reason Japan is often said to be a "screwdriver's turn"[29][30] away from possessing nuclear weapons.
    Significant amounts of reactor-grade plutonium are created as a by-product of the nuclear energy industry, and Japan was reported in December 1995 to have 4.7 tons of plutonium, enough for around 700 nuclear warheads. Japan also possesses an indigenous uranium enrichment plant[31] which could hypothetically be used to make highly enriched uranium suitable for weapon use. Japan has also developed the M-V three-stage solid fuel rocket, similar in design to the U.S. LGM-118A Peacekeeper ICBM, which could serve as a delivery vehicle, and has experience in re-entry vehicle technology (OREX, HOPE-X). Toshiyuki Shikata, a government adviser and former lieutenant general, indicated that part of the rationale for the fifth M-V Hayabusa mission, from 2003 to 2010, was that the reentry and landing of its return capsule demonstrated "that Japan's ballistic missile capability is credible."[32]

    It has been pointed out that as long as Japan enjoys the benefits of a "nuclear-ready" status held through surrounding countries, it will see no reason to actually produce nuclear arms, since by remaining below the threshold, albeit with the capability to cross it at short notice, Japan can expect the support of the US while posing as an equal to China and Russia.[33]


  19. #579
    PikeStance's Avatar Imperial Splendour- PM
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Why I would agree the US and all countries act out of self- interest, I wouldn't say it has much to do with the proliferation of nuclear weapons per se. It is more to do with ensuring the free flow of goods and services. Obviously, the more countries that have nuclear threat then the greater the risk of someone actually using it (though I doubt any nation would actually use it as a means).

    The United States is #1 by rank in imports and #3 by Exports; moreover the US Dollar is base currency for international trade, especially oil. It is very easy to villain-ize the United States. Furthermore, China is 2 in imports and #1 in exports. It is not surprising that both the US and China are "flexing their muscles." They have the most to lose and the most to gain. Enjoy the geopolitical chess match gentlemen!

  20. #580
    Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: Chinese maritime aggression. Other East Asian nations now remember why they like America

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Why I would agree the US and all countries act out of self- interest, I wouldn't say it has much to do with the proliferation of nuclear weapons per se. It is more to do with ensuring the free flow of goods and services. Obviously, the more countries that have nuclear threat then the greater the risk of someone actually using it (though I doubt any nation would actually use it as a means).

    The United States is #1 by rank in imports and #3 by Exports; moreover the US Dollar is base currency for international trade, especially oil. It is very easy to villain-ize the United States. Furthermore, China is 2 in imports and #1 in exports. It is not surprising that both the US and China are "flexing their muscles." They have the most to lose and the most to gain. Enjoy the geopolitical chess match gentlemen!
    While free flow of good of service have it effect, i doubt it's the main draw of the dispute for both side. It would be tantamount to suicide for China if they want to stop the free flow, they rise is more dependent to manufacturing (import resource, export manufactured good) than US. Beside most of the dispute is not about sea passage, AFAIK anyone free to sail in the the 200 miles Exclusive economic zone anyway, for China it's more about the resource.

    For US there's myriad of reason, free flow is one of the reason but i doubt it's much more important than any other reason. After all if China somehow want to suicide by stopping all trade, US (with some difficulty) can easily change manufactured good supplier.

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