Make Tomb Kings Unroutable

[King of the Ring]

aha i see

make the tomb kings un-routable, it's unrealistic to see skeletons running away from a small elvish force

[TWmadman]

having an army which is unroutable is bad for gameplay. btw your skeleton basic soldiers has higher morale than dwarven warriors. since medieval II engine is not perfect, it is not possible to make something like : you are unroutable UNTIL we kill your general (lich).

so no, no lock_morale army in our mod, play CoW if you want unroutable undead army

[Bela]

But there are possibilities for sub-mods after the release

[Ethien]

Yup, I know I'll personally make the Tomb Kings unroutable and just nerf down their stock troops if it's to powerful.

[Sanguinius]

Yup, I know I'll personally make the Tomb Kings unroutable and just nerf down their stock troops if it's to powerful.

I think just about everyone will be doing that, after all, what's the point of playing this mod if it doesn't recreate the Warhammer world? and mindless Undead minions don't have morale in Warhammer.

[irneh]

Yup, I know I'll personally make the Tomb Kings unroutable and just nerf down their stock troops if it's to powerful.

how can you do that ? can you explain to us ?

[Sephiroth91]

how can you do that ? can you explain to us ?

Just edit the export_descr_unit, it's quite easy; add the magic red words and it's done. I wouldn't know however if it's the right thing to do: I concur it's weird to see skeletons fleeing, but it would probably be the smartest thing for balance.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type tomb kings warriors
dictionary tomb_kings_warriors
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Heavy
banner faction main_infantry
banner holy crusade
soldier tomb_kings_warriors, 72, 0, 1
attributes sea_faring, can_withdraw, frighten_foot, frighten_mounted
formation 1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 4, square, shield_wall
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 5, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, blunt, mace, 25, 1
stat_pri_attr ap
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 0, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 4, 2, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 6
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 15, disciplined, highly_trained, lock_morale
stat_charge_dist 15
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 2, 500, 100, 100, 100, 400, 6, 80 ;13$
armour_ug_levels 0, 1
armour_ug_models tomb_kings_warriors, tomb_kings_warriors_ug1
ownership turks
era 0 turks
era 1 turks
era 2 turks
recruit_priority_offset 100

[Arandir Tur-Anion de Bodemloze]

Move it as it could be an important suggestion, and it will be easier for other people who wants to see it to found it now

[Bela]

I think just about everyone will be doing that, after all, what's the point of playing this mod if it doesn't recreate the Warhammer world? and mindless Undead minions don't have morale in Warhammer.

Sure, but how do you represent their "death" if the necromancer is killed in battle?

[TWmadman]

I think just about everyone will be doing that, after all, what's the point of playing this mod if it doesn't recreate the Warhammer world? and mindless Undead minions don't have morale in Warhammer.

Yeah you are right, why are we even working on all of this since it is pointless. Let's just let the mod dead.

Seriously, when people aren't satisfied, they do submod. Become a coder and see a new world arising!

[King of the Ring]

i don't understand the point of routing undead? it's unreal this never happended in any game or movie before

nerf the stats and make them unroutable

its funny to see the bone giants running away like scared children

[Sephiroth91]

its funny to see the bone giants running away like scared children

With 30 morale I wonder what you have to do to see them running....

[Sanguinius]

Sure, but how do you represent their "death" if the necromancer is killed in battle?

For the Tomb Kings? The necromancer who raised them died thousands of years ago in the Warhammer world, just after he raised them from the dead in fact. Even after Nagash's rebirth he could not control them again. The power he unleashed in his great summoning was so great that the undead in the Land of the dead survived even after Nagash died. This "necromancer problem" is not a problem, for it is not a consideration for the Tomb Kings forces.

[TWmadman]

This is a consideration of gameplay. When you mod an engine like M2TW you are surrounded by engine limitations. You cannot do all you want. The problem with unroutable armies is gameplay mechanics. It becomes stats VS stats and there is no more strategy to flank/back charge enemy etc...

Every unit in tomb kings army has fear effect btw

[irneh]

Just edit the export_descr_unit, it's quite easy; add the magic red words and it's done. I wouldn't know however if it's the right thing to do: I concur it's weird to see skeletons fleeing, but it would probably be the smartest thing for balance.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type tomb kings warriors
dictionary tomb_kings_warriors
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Heavy
banner faction main_infantry
banner holy crusade
soldier tomb_kings_warriors, 72, 0, 1
attributes sea_faring, can_withdraw, frighten_foot, frighten_mounted
formation 1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 4, square, shield_wall
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 5, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, blunt, mace, 25, 1
stat_pri_attr ap
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 0, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 4, 2, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 6
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 15, disciplined, highly_trained, lock_morale
stat_charge_dist 15
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 2, 500, 100, 100, 100, 400, 6, 80 ;13$
armour_ug_levels 0, 1
armour_ug_models tomb_kings_warriors, tomb_kings_warriors_ug1
ownership turks
era 0 turks
era 1 turks
era 2 turks
recruit_priority_offset 100

THANKS

[rummtata]

Fleeing undead are a strange sight, I admit. But if every unit in the tombkings army always fought to the last "man", it would mean heavy losses for the enemy force in every battle, even if it were ten times as large. While that might be considered 'realistic' in WHF terms, it's certainly not balanced. So I'd say: Go with playability first, look for alternatives later.

Also, it's not like it's impossible to roleplay. If the battle goes badly, the tombking could have flashbacks of defeats during his lifetime and lose his nerve. A skeleton might be mindless, the general can't be, whether he is a necromancer or undead himself. Therefore, he must be susceptible to psychology at least insofar that he is afraid of permanent death or maybe the desecration of his sanctuary. He must have some motive for being in the field with his army, right? ;-)

[Sephiroth91]

THANKS

You're welcome, just basic modding, nothing fancy .....

For the Tomb Kings? The necromancer who raised them died thousands of years ago in the Warhammer world, just after he raised them from the dead in fact. Even after Nagash's rebirth he could not control them again. The power he unleashed in his great summoning was so great that the undead in the Land of the dead survived even after Nagash died. This "necromancer problem" is not a problem, for it is not a consideration for the Tomb Kings forces.

There is something called "Hierophant", you know.



About this issue, yes, I'd rather too having unroutable tomb kings, probably I'll mod that too. However game balance is more important than our preferences, and it should have and has priority: if routable tomb kings are better than unbalanced tomb kings, so be it.


P.S. oh, and please, let's not compare tomb kings to CoW Vampire Counts: they have a completely different gameplay and an extremely hard, not to say impossible to overtake without cheating, beginning. And when to have to cheat to get through something imho there's something very, very wrong.

[King of the Ring]

if i remember correctly in warhammer liches can raise dead, also the dead kings can raise dead

i'd like to see the general raising the crumbled skeletons from a unit,it would be interesting if not impossibly limited by the game engine

maybe someday , someone would peek at the game code and remove those limitations

[Kolwen]

maybe someday , someone would peek at the game code and remove those limitations

That would be illegal

[King of the Ring]

illegal if you take money for it and not crediting the original creators