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Thread: Best use of 2-Handers?

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    Coldfire88's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Best use of 2-Handers?

    Almost all human factions have 2 hand swordmen: battle ready dunedain, dale swordsmen, dismounted arnor knights etc, but whats the best use for them on the battlefield? whenever I have them I always hesitate and keep them out of battle especially since are usually expensive.

    I think they are also more vulnerable to archers than same class troops with shields and generally die faster, are they any good?

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    Shashu
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    I use them against the cheapest troops my opponents field. They usually rip right through them while simultaneously preserving their numbers. Only in the bleakest situation will I send them against the enemy's best units as the AI will usually out produce me, and there tends to be better ways to deal with them than sacrificing the aces in the deck.

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    Bowmaster's Avatar Ishiyumi no shashu
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    I do not see what is the special effect of 2-handed weapons: their attack animation time is slow, and they can't defend themselves well. Of course, if we'd be talking about axemen, then I'd say that it's good to send them against trolls.

    Btw, Dismounted Dúnedain Knights, as you probably meant, does not use two-handed weapon. Also when you say Dale Swordsmen, do you mean Dale Swordmasters?
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    Princeps
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    They work quite well as a "cavalry style" unit.

    If you send them around the enemy army when you're engaged and charge the enemy rear - particularly if you're fighting orcs, or any unit without much defence - you'll decimate their numbers and reduce their morale.

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    Coldfire88's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bowmaster View Post
    I do not see what is the special effect of 2-handed weapons: their attack animation time is slow, and they can't defend themselves well. Of course, if we'd be talking about axemen, then I'd say that it's good to send them against trolls.

    Btw, Dismounted Dúnedain Knights, as you probably meant, does not use two-handed weapon. Also when you say Dale Swordsmen, do you mean Dale Swordmasters?
    I dont know if its different in MOS but theres also dismounted Arnor knights with great swords, and yes swordmasters. theres also Winged swordsmen of Gondor.

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    mondpeiler's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    In a historical context, those swords where often used against pike-formations (spear, halberd), sometimes against cavalry.
    In germany they are often refered to as "Gassenhauer" in english (literally) "alleyway-beater".
    So you can run in, crack up the pike-formation and form an alley/gap for your followers to jump in.
    It combines the advantage of (rather) long range - against long pikes - with the advantage of shorter range - for close-combat.

    BUT:
    I'm not sure if this is depictet in the game-mechanics!
    I never read sth like "good against pikes" or can't remember it at the moment.
    Maybe try out in a custom fight, how they perform against different pike-units ingame...

    nonetheless they are fierce fighters and do much damage against all infantry.
    except - you're right - archers.

    EDIT:
    and they are heavy weapons, so, also a reaction to the developement of plate-armour...
    (I don't know if they have "armour-piercing"effect ingame)
    Last edited by mondpeiler; January 31, 2013 at 05:51 AM.

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    Coldfire88's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    I was bored so I tested:

    2 handers have advantage against cavalry but average on everything else including pikemen.

    heavy 2 hander against light, medium pike = 2 hander wins
    light 2 hander against heavy pike = pike wins

    Against horses they are great as long as the cavalry didnt charge them, so another unit must take the charge and these guys flank.

    But spears and pikes can take a head on charge and arent as vulnerable to archers due to shields and large numbers, so 2 handers are too much trouble for that role, plus cavalry wont wait around to be flanked and killed, they will move back and charge again and long swordsmen will be the ones flanked.

    That leaves them to flanking weaker units who cant fight back or chasing away archers, both of which can be done by any other unit, or sacrifice them in an emergency as a heavy unit but then you will lose them.

    That is my verdict.
    Last edited by Coldfire88; January 31, 2013 at 06:57 AM.

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    Macilrille's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    I find that the Dismounted Knights of Annúminas in MOS' version of Arnor (if indeed I remember the Arnorian 2-handers' name correctly), are very effective as a flanking and shock unit. Including for killing Trolls.

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    DrDragun's Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    I put them on the sides of my infantry formation, then after the lines clash I run the 2-handers around the flank. They must kill fast because they gain veteran marks very quickly despite their slow swing speed. I think there is some hidden lethality stat outside of attack/defense which determines kill chance. But the problem is that they also die fast, so don't use them in the main contact line if you can avoid it.
    Last edited by DrDragun; January 31, 2013 at 07:57 AM.

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    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    They usually rip right through them while simultaneously preserving their numbers.

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    Macilrille's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    Yeps, reserve shock troops. BAM!

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    mondpeiler's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    I think in general you could say, that tactically all units, that have no shield to protect them from projectiles, belong to the second row (if possible).
    only exception: skirmish-troops.

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    Teutonic Warlord's Avatar Shisai
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    As has already been said by others, 2-handers are good for attacking the flanks. You need to have them avoid archer fire and cavalry charges because they will be decimated.

    To properly use 2-handers, they (usually) need to be used in reserve and not in the front line. You can use them to flank after the lines make contact, but cavalry can fill this role just as well and usually better. If you are playing the dwarves, though, you will just have to make do with 2-handers. Another important role is to use 2-handers as elites killers. If you can have a shield unit make contact with an elite enemy unit (trolls, mumakil, nazgul, etc), you can send in the 2hers to perform heavy damage to that unit while minimizing casualties.

    However, the best use of 2hers I have found is to use them to defend chokepoints, like settlement gates and bridges. Enemy archer fire will be ineffective, and the enemy can't use charges with cavalry or infantry. And, as has been said by someone else, 2hers will destroy cavalry in melee. In vanillla M2TW, I used 20 units of Zweihander to defend Antioch against 8 full Mongol armies. I ended up with only one full unit at the end, but all the Mongols were defeated.

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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teutonic Warlord View Post
    In vanillla M2TW, I used 20 units of Zweihander to defend Antioch against 8 full Mongol armies. I ended up with only one full unit at the end, but all the Mongols were defeated.
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    Master Shu Win's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    Battle ready dunedain do a great job of supporting and protecting Arnor pike formations. This combo works very well against harad. Tried this same tactic as Dale with Barding Hird and Dale Swordmasters trolls, orcs, and uruks all fell with disgusting losses and this tactic is easier when playing against mordor because they rarely produce archer units.

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    Teutonic Warlord's Avatar Shisai
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
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    Thanks! I shouldn't have won, though. The stupid AI sent all their armies through the first opened gate, where all 20 of my units were waiting. The zweihanders also succeeded in decimating the Mongol cavalry and killed the generals, so the enemy routed before they could have won. My utmost respect for zweihanders, and 2-handers in general, is due to that battle.

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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    I usually use my Isengard Berserkers as a line breaker in sieges at the main gate followed by some Uruk Reavers.

    Great way to clear out a held gate, especially when you tire the defenders out with lower quality orcs...

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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    To echo what many have said. I always reserve the 2-handed units to the 2nd row. Whilst they are average at best on the front line and pitiful at receiving charges from any enemy unit, they are normally deadly when brought in from the 2nd line and even better for flanking unsuspecting enemies.

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    k/t's Avatar Auxiliarius
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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    "especially when you tire the defenders out with lower quality orcs..."

    Such callous disregard for hu... orc life! How can you be so cold-hearted? They're pe... orcs too!

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    Default Re: Best use of 2-Handers?

    How do I use Two Handers?

    Only in seiges, they're my wall shock unit. I give the unit a ladder, send them to an unmanned spot on the enemy wall, organize them up, and smash into their units on the wall Maybe its just luck, but I find two handers clear walls very well when they're assembled at least.

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