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Thread: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83, region changes on page 84!!

  1. #1661
    BKB's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83!!

    Big fan of your work Firefreak, alot of time and dedication has gone into your map and it is fantastic you've returned and working again on it.

    Just a quick question - is there any chance of the pathway in the Misty Mountains returning? I always loved that feature from Vannila TA. Give a nice screening to the Mountain Orc movements and I always had fantastic battles through there with the Dwarves.
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - new previews for next version on page 83!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FireFreak111 View Post

    @Araval
    I will see what I can do, but Amon Hen will likely not be, due to the campaign map modifications required to include it. It also wouldn't see much use in the new map. On a similar line of thought, its why I am removing the Argonath battle-map. It requires a land tile in the river, which prevents players from sailing all the way to Gondor. It is really rare to fight a battle there. I may change my stance on it later however.
    In lore, isn't the part of the river unsailable anyways? You could just have the land tile in there. Moreover, the battle map is simply epic.

  3. #1663
    Miles
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83!!

    Yes, Rauros is behind the Argonath:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Last edited by Drorin; November 07, 2014 at 09:08 AM.

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    Jacob251's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - new preview on page 83!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch-Balrog View Post
    FireFreak!
    Welcome back mate! Can't wait for what you have made!
    FF What do you mean that Sauron is removed? He is removed from the one ring script? or you mean a settement i dont know
    Also plz do not remove The Argonath battle map:-P Its awesomee although the battles there are not very common
    EDIT:lel wrong quote sorry I am using my mobile phone right now

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    paradamed's Avatar Equites Alares
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83!!

    Great to see you back FF! Removing Argonath makes no sense since the river was not navigatable all the way through because of the falls of Rauros, not to mention losing one of the coolest battle maps is not an improvement. A lot of players fight battles there since it is a choke point, by the way.

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    Dutch-Balrog's Avatar Princeps Posterior
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83!!

    I've had quite a few battles at the Argonath myself and i would be sad if it were to be removed.

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    FireFreak111's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83!!

    Thanks again everyone .

    Well, by the looks of it, noone wants the battle-map removed. Will definitely reconsider adding it back in before the end, it's one pixel (1 min worth of work), and by the looks of it the campaign map statues still require transforming the terrain a certain way that supports the battle-map.

    @Drorin
    I will add Himring as part of the local region, but Tol Fuin won't fit into the new map style, and sort of needs a settlement with its presence, which does hurt the AI.

    @salzella
    The Lake will be helped by the squished battle-map generation, but I will also make sure this time it generates properly. The climate is based off sources which show minor snow reaching the south during winter. I am considering lessening the snow in Gondor, pushing up the Harondor climate into more of Gondor, but there are supporting quotes and sources which show snow at least reaching Rohan every so often (varied weather is not supported on the campaign.) Also the snow breaks the monotony of winter and climate that can occur, keeping the campaign varied .

    @BKB
    Unfortunately it won't be, it would mess with the new generation for mountains, splitting them down the middle kills my ability to create realistic peaks. I am adding little pathways around certain peaks when gameplay permits. It won't be crossings, more like shortcuts, diagonally. Maybe one or two slightly complicated crossings. I will have to explore what's possible, atm my priority is getting my map into the game, having traditional Medieval II ambiguous crash issues.

    @Jacob251
    Sauron settlement DaC has no use of it.

  8. #1668
    Miles
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83!!

    It's good hear that.
    Another question, will you add the Moria's tile made by Leo?

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    Araval's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FireFreak111 View Post
    I will add Himring as part of the local region, but Tol Fuin won't fit into the new map style, and sort of needs a settlement with its presence, which does hurt the AI.
    Would it be possible to add Tol Fuin (and Himring) as part of the Forodwaith region, so they couldn't be captured because they were desolated anyways and wouldn't draw any extra attention from the AI? What do you think?
    Maybe part of Tol Fuin could even be cut off by the edge or taking into account the other deformations on this new map, it could even be made a smaller and moved closer to the main land just to have it present?

  10. #1670
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83!!

    I've compiled a list of the region changes, opinions, feedback, disagreements, etc are welcome. Want to hear as many opinions as possible before I make my final changes for regions.

    Regions to be definitively removed:

    • Sakal-an-Dalajaf (Far south Umbar)
    • Arysis (south-east Harad, bottom right corner)
    • Western isles (Tol Fuin, island top left corner)
    • Forochel (Pitkaranta, top of Angmar, on coast)

    Regions I am seriously considering removing:
    • Shire - Tookland and Buckland (little strategic value, more for lore than anything). Removing these would allow 2 more regions in higher action areas, and should reduce the amount of hobbits producible by Bree in DaC

    Regions that could possibly be removed:
    • Druadan Forest (adds little value to the Gondor fight, could be moved elsewhere in Gondor/Mordor for more strategic value)
    • One of the Fangorn regions (likely east, consolidate the two, just an option, could move into Rohan, or into the Wold)

    Regions that will gain a settlement:
    • Northern Eriador (north of Fornost, improving the Ered Luin/Angmar fight)
    • West Gondor (split up the enormity of Pinnath Gelin/Anfalas into West, East and South, rather then North and South)
    • Rhovanion (1-2, make it a worthy battleground for Dale/Rhun/Dorwinion/Dwarves/Shadow Mirkwood/Mordor)

    Regions that could gain settlements:
    • Eastern Eriador (north-east of Amon Sul, improving the Angmar/Dunedain/Imladris fight)
    • North Gondor (Anorien, add more defense and slow down Mordor's hold once Osgiliath/Cair is taken. Would very likely be what Brimlad (forest) becomes)
    • Rohan (split up the West Emnet a bit, slow down Isenguard, Fangorn settlement would be moved here)
    • Mirkwood (move down the mountain settlement, split up the gap between north and south in the middle, too large a space to cross currently for AI)
    • Eregion (west of Misty Mountains, split it up, give Elves better navigation and Orcs more to conquest.)
    • Lindon (would give Lindon/Elves more to do, however this area sees little action.)
    • Mordor (make it a more interesting conquest, more camps, split up Nurn, slow it down)



    @Drorin
    I can consider a custom_tile, but I wont add a second Moria settlement. Will depend on how I handle Moria with the new map (will be again different)

    @Araval
    Tol Fuin/Himling is back in, the region wont be, Will be apart of the nearby region and likely 100% impassable.


  11. #1671
    Miles
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83!!

    My feedback and opinion:

    - Regions to be definitively removed: any problem
    - Regions seriously considering to be removed: I don't think it necessary to add more regions to eliminate these settlements, but if you delete them permanently, I do not look bad.
    - Regions possibly be removed: Drúadan Forest I think is important if someone want to add Woses. Fangorn, any problem.

    - Regions that will gain settlement: in my opinion it would only be necessary, to add immersion and to be lorefriendly, include two settlements for Moria and tile in their midst. I think this would add a lot of substance to the campaign of Khazad-dum in DaC. Also, are 40 miles, 67 km west gate to gate east. And this would reflect the difficulty to take and defend this the dwarf kingdom. But if this is not possible, no problem.

    Good job FireFreak! And thanks for allowing feedback

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    Araval's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83!!

    @Araval
    Tol Fuin/Himling is back in, the region wont be, Will be apart of the nearby region and likely 100% impassable.
    Thanks.


    My thoughts:

    - I think you can remove Tookland but not Buckland because it was existing on its own and became a part of the Shire only just when the Reunited Kingdom was forged.
    - Druadan forest: Agree with Drorin. I even remember seeing a preview of a Wose unit by Zarathos.
    - Fangorn: I think it wouldn't be a big problem.

    - West Gondor: could you please elaborate more on this one? How it'd look like and what would be the regions, any lore back-up? Maybe it would make more sense to give some border areas to the surrounding regions? It's a sparsely populated area after all.

    - Moria: agree with Drorin.
    - Eregion and Eastern Eriador ideas sound the most interesting to me.
    - After those West Emnet and after that Anorien could get an extra settlement

  13. #1673
    FireFreak111's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83!!

    @Drorin
    Well, if I moved the forest settlement up to the river and turned it into a fortress, it would have the the territory of the forest. Could just limit the Woses unit to that.

    AI can't handle two Moria settlements very well. I've tried it before (1.*), didn't work out very well.

    @Araval
    It does have reason to be represented, but the reason I'm highly considering removing it is for gameplay reasons. It's just another village, it's not really an interesting conquest. It could easily become part of Rhovanion or some other area that could use some settlements .

    http://www.lindefirion.net/maps/. Using the online map, West Gondor would gain maybe Rendul along the river at the eastern edge of Anfalas. That, or instead I would add a settlement north of Tarnost, slowing down the speed of Mordor's conquest going West.

    Eregion would be a great settlement to add, splitting up the enormity of the region. Would allow OOtMM and Elves to fight over something .

    Rohan I'm thinking instead a castle on the north side of the river above the West Emnet, east of Fangorn.

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    Araval's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83, region changes on page 84!!

    How can it be that AI can handle Osgiliath but not Moria?

    I just think Buckland would add more to the immersion than some made-up settlement in a place that should have a low population anyways.

    I like the idea of Rendul to represent the Morthond fief more.

  15. #1675
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83, region changes on page 84!!

    I feel I should chirp in here that we don't actually use the Woses, they never made it into the game because they would never fight for anyone opting instead to die fighting for their freedom than accepting overlordship from anyone else and having them as the starting units in the 2 areas of Middle-earth where they live is a waste of a valuable EDU slot.

    Although now that the RK is looking increasingly unlikely we do actually have a lot of free space.

    Anyway, different discussion, back to the map: FF, unsure if you have seen but I gave Tarnost to Gondor. DA didn't need it as they are overwhelmingly strong and I made Methrast bigger and better and it helps Gondor an awful lot having complete connectivity.

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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83, region changes on page 84!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Arachir Galudirithon View Post
    Although now that the RK is looking increasingly unlikely we do actually have a lot of free space.

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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83, region changes on page 84!!

    I read today Lothlórien, The Mirror of Galadriel and Farewell to Lórien chapters and I think the forest of Lothlorien should be a bit bigger west. The reason is that in chapter Lothlórien when crossing the Nimrodel Company is already in the forest, although it is true that no Mallorn appears before crossing that river.
    And in chapter Farewell to Lórien, it is said that the port is on the corner of the Anduin and the Celebrant, so if possible relocation would be more accurate.

  18. #1678
    Basileus of Byzantium's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83, region changes on page 84!!

    Was just looking at this sub-mod today and I'm wondering, up to what patch of leo.civil.uef's Alternative Patch do you have integrated into this sub-mod? 4.4? 4.5? 4.7?

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