[Preview] The Magyars

[IronCaliph]

Cant wait to play this, I was wondering when someone would make a Magyar faction. Good luck with the remaining details!

[kiskompi]

No problem I'm eager to see how the evolution of the Magyars into the Hungarians will be portrayed in the game. Didn't Stephen also introduce ten vármegyék/counties to control his kingdom? I think the counts were called ispán, but you will probably know better Will you have titles like these as traits for the Magyars? Maybe they could be unlocked during Stephen's time as well and give additional bonuses like increased law or influence.

Yes, you know it well. The vármegye was the base of the Hungarian administrative system, and the army.
I don't know many things about the Magyars' tech trees and traits yet, but I want to make them as best as I can.

[NikeBG]

Very interesting - that Stephen guy seems to have a number of similarities with our Omurtag guy. For example, Omurtag also completed his administrative reforms, turning the state from a tribal union into a centralised empire, in less than 30 years. And he also divided the country to 10 counties (komitati). Interesting - it's common knowledge that the Bulgar(ian)s and Magyars in that time were quite similar, but I didn't think they'd have *that* many similarities!

[Mausolos of Caria]

Yes, you know it well. The vármegye was the base of the Hungarian administrative system, and the army.
I don't know many things about the Magyars' tech trees and traits yet, but I want to make them as best as I can.

Well I know where to look them up in my books Yeah, good luck with that

[Kranos]

some units have an emphasis on their mongoloid features and some are pretty caucasian. I know they were intermingled but the difference is too obvious.And again those mongoloid faces are a bit too pronounced imho

[kiskompi]

Very interesting - that Stephen guy seems to have a number of similarities with our Omurtag guy. For example, Omurtag also completed his administrative reforms, turning the state from a tribal union into a centralised empire, in less than 30 years. And he also divided the country to 10 counties (komitati). Interesting - it's common knowledge that the Bulgar(ian)s and Magyars in that time were quite similar, but I didn't think they'd have *that* many similarities!

It's interesting! There is a supposition which says that Magyars have Turkic origins. If it's true, we can be relatives. Thank you for information!

Well I know where to look them up in my books Yeah, good luck with that

Thank you!

some units have an emphasis on their mongoloid features and some are pretty caucasian. I know they were intermingled but the difference is too obvious.And again those mongoloid faces are a bit too pronounced imho

The Magyars had mixed origin. It's not sure, but the main hypothesis says the had Uralic (Finno-Ugric) predeccesors, and some Turkic tribes joined them (Kabars, perhaps Szeklers). The second says they had Turkic origin, and Finno-Ugric tribes joined them. The conclusion is the same: there have to be some (more or less) Mongolic faces.

[Kranos]

ofc but why more ? lol

[kiskompi]

I think only the Kavar units have mongolic face (and maybe Lóról szállt ínek). That's not more. That's less. Kavars are Khazars, so they have to have Mongolic face. And Ínek can sympolize the Turkic part of the Magyar tribes.

[Kranos]

reffering to only those who are supposed to look mongolic...they look very, very mongolic. More mongolic than a Cantonese lol

[koultouras]

reffering to only those who are supposed to look mongolic...they look very, very mongolic. More mongolic than a Cantonese lol

Can you honestly create a 3d model which when shown to a 3d party, will definetely force them to cry out loud : "MONGOL!"
Come on mate, the diferences between a mongolic face and chinese face (although clear in real life) is a bit difficult to be portrayed on a 3d model.
Grossly i tried to avoid any reassemblance by making cheeckbones wider, which IS a mongoloeid characteristic
and their heads more flat. Furtheremore i tanned their skins

Can you please let me know what else should one do so to avoid the similarity?
Other than placing a label on them screaming out lout "MOGOLOEID IN DA HOUSE!", that is ofc.

[T&D]

Don't bother with them koulturas you are doing great workie!!!

[kostic]

Magnific work ! I wait the game...

[diamutene]

Awesome work.

[shikaka]

Congratulations for the great preview, and the brilliant work done on the magyar roster!

I really LOVE the fact that there is a big variety of horse archers, not just 1 or 2! Cool

I'm deducted It from description in preview. It's quite logical what you've written, but I'm also not sure If every nomad had such skills. For ex. (I'm sure that you know this example, compatriot ) Tatars from Orda Nogajska - according to sources in 17th century they were really poorly equipment, minority (maybe even only elite) had composite bows or sabres, most - masłaki (kind of clubs). Were they lazy?
I'm not expert and I trust you, that every non-slave Magyar could afford such bow (even simple wranglers), as kiskompi've written. Maybe hard times for nomads will come in later centuries...

What must also be taken into account is that until the stop of the raids, the magyar society was highly militant.
There was no state in the classical sense, and there was no violence monopoly either: the richer members of society didn't have means to force the poorer into paying taxes. This, and the "easy money" gained from raids had a strange result: the rich wanted to go to war to increase their wealth and conserve their status, while the poor wanted war too, so that he can sort of "catch" up, or end their poverty. Of course this meant that everyone was willing to participate in these campaigns, and since these happened frequently, everybody had the basic equipment and training.

This changed after a few defeats: suddenly it was more risky, and the wealthy dignitaries found themselves preferring to make money within the borders of the country. For this, they needed as state who has a monopoly of violence (to force poor into serfdom): and here come Géza's reforms.

[kiskompi]

Thank you for posting shikaka, it's completely true!

[AnthoniusII]

What we tried to show with Magyars and later with Turcomans was the fact that they used multi tribal armies. Later when they settled for good they chosed a more centralised administration system (Feudal for Magyars/Hungarians, Islamic for Turcomans).
But in 872AD we HAD to show atleast a number of differend tribes (not all though)that concisted the armies of that era.

[Wareg]

Shikaka, I've compared Magyars to XVII century Tatars, which also were highly militant and raids were their main source of income. However, composite bows and sabres were rare weapons amongst warriors of Nogai horde, the basic equipment were clubs. Of course It doesn't mean that composite bows weren't primary weapon of even poor Magyars.

[goldenapple]

Is this ready? If so, where can I download it?

[Tureuki]

What we tried to show with Magyars and later with Turcomans was the fact that they used multi tribal armies. Later when they settled for good they chosed a more centralised administration system (Feudal for Magyars/Hungarians, Islamic for Turcomans).
But in 872AD we HAD to show atleast a number of differend tribes (not all though)that concisted the armies of that era.

"All" steppe factions had multiple tribes that united under one name, no entity rised from a single tribe. if you're going to depict different tribes under that banner you should do it properly and depict all the sub-tribes, not come up with an weird idea like using different names for same tribal groups, which are not even tribe names but the names of numerous grouplings labelled together under those names(same ones).

[kiskompi]

I think one of the best options to represent tribes in the mod is that every general should have a tribal ancilliary or trait. The tribes didn't have so large differences that we could show in the mod, so in my opinion it's completely enough.