Message to all TGC/CBUR fellowship's members :
There is a problem contacting with pms here in TWC. Please log in, in TWHellas develpoment forum to continue our mod's development. Unforthunatly i have no other way to contact you.
Ας εχουν λοιπον, την πληρη και απολυτη ασφαλεια ,οσον αφορα τη ζωη τους ,τους ναους τους ,
τις πεποιθησεις τους και ολους τους προς προσκυνηση τοπους που κατεχουν τωρα εντος και εκτος της πολης.
Οι υπολοιποι χριστιανοι θα ερχονται ως απλοι προσκυνητες και θα υπαγονται στον Πατριαρχη Ιεροσολημων.
So..let them (Roman Orthodox christians) have the full and absolute safety for their lives,
their temples, their beliefs and to all worship sites currently held within and outside the city.
The rest of the Christians will come as ordinary pilgrims and subject to the Patriarch of Jerusalem.
Achtiname (decree) of Capliph Muʿāwiyah ibn ʾAbī Sufyān 658AD
"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)." Achtiname of Muhammad
I would also like to urge the ones who wanna spread their love, please dont forget the guys that helped with the preview writting down those walls of texts!
rep them wherever and whenever possible.
Thank you
Yes in the end EVERYTHING is a result of a teamwork.
Please READ the Credits list carefully. All those jentlemen deserve our thank for their work and efforts inorder to allow us enjoy this preview and later enjoy the mod itsself.
Message to all TGC/CBUR fellowship's members :
There is a problem contacting with pms here in TWC. Please log in, in TWHellas develpoment forum to continue our mod's development. Unforthunatly i have no other way to contact you.
Ας εχουν λοιπον, την πληρη και απολυτη ασφαλεια ,οσον αφορα τη ζωη τους ,τους ναους τους ,
τις πεποιθησεις τους και ολους τους προς προσκυνηση τοπους που κατεχουν τωρα εντος και εκτος της πολης.
Οι υπολοιποι χριστιανοι θα ερχονται ως απλοι προσκυνητες και θα υπαγονται στον Πατριαρχη Ιεροσολημων.
So..let them (Roman Orthodox christians) have the full and absolute safety for their lives,
their temples, their beliefs and to all worship sites currently held within and outside the city.
The rest of the Christians will come as ordinary pilgrims and subject to the Patriarch of Jerusalem.
Achtiname (decree) of Capliph Muʿāwiyah ibn ʾAbī Sufyān 658AD
"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)." Achtiname of Muhammad
Great preview, varied features and fantastic, decorative fabrik (Szeklers).
How numerous were Bők? Few hundreds, thousands or more? There is info about 108 clans, there were clan leaders but I don't think that there were only 108Bők amongst whole Magyar army...
There is info that composit bows were expensive, and those who can't afford bows used javelins. Why poor units (Csikósok or Talpasok) don't use javelins?
This statement is completely not true. The composite bow cost the nomad 0 money. Yes, 0 - as each nomad was able to make such composite bow for himself, he just needed some widely available (mostly organic) materials and time. Nothing more. So even poor nomad was equipped with a composite bow. Of course the richer nomads could have more fancy bows with some ornamentic stuff, but that's it.
Originally Posted by Treize
Really nice!
But I thought there would be a German knight unit?
The Hungarian Knights unit is in reality the German Knights unit. It will be fixed in the unit description and perhaps even within unit name in the released version of TGC.
Last edited by Silesian_Noble; January 19, 2013 at 12:24 PM.
How numerous were Bők? Few hundreds, thousands or more?
They were about the 20% of the society. The bők were the clan leaders, and their family (son, brotherm etc.).
There is info that composit bows were expensive, and those who can't afford bows used javelins. Why poor units (Csikósok or Talpasok) don't use javelins?
Yes, they were explensive. But in the Magyar society there wasn't really private ownership. The slaves, and the poorest classes couldn't get one, but they were so few, that it's unneccesary to represent them in the mod.
a)
Gisela marries Stephen I and brings a unit of german knights (a single unit that can not be recruited again).
The problem in this would be that after 1010AD Magyars will be actually Hungarians. Ofcourse "Hungarians" did NOT change in a single day.
As the Magyar TW modding team notticed there were a number of revolts to defend the Pagan customs and the old way of living.
As Hungarians though TGC Magyars will need a unit to show their transformation from tribal people to people of a feudal kingdom.
b) Gisela marries Stephen I, brings her escort (knights, priests, scholars etc).
German Knights are only part of the main event that describes all these.
Hungary uses the "teachings" of Gisela's escorts and copy the knight style of warfare.
That way after 1010AD TGC Magyars (as Hungarians) will have a unit of the new era (like the Croatian Vitez) ,expensive to maintain ,with low recruitment rate but recruitable never the less.
When the knight lance charge event will pop up in the mod some factions will recieve new units fighting the "knight" style.
This does not meen that there wont be such unit before simply because we can not do other way. But that event will triger units like:
Norman late Knights
Croatian Vitez
And Hungarian knights -with the need of the event of marriage of Gisela and Stephen.
Message to all TGC/CBUR fellowship's members :
There is a problem contacting with pms here in TWC. Please log in, in TWHellas develpoment forum to continue our mod's development. Unforthunatly i have no other way to contact you.
Ας εχουν λοιπον, την πληρη και απολυτη ασφαλεια ,οσον αφορα τη ζωη τους ,τους ναους τους ,
τις πεποιθησεις τους και ολους τους προς προσκυνηση τοπους που κατεχουν τωρα εντος και εκτος της πολης.
Οι υπολοιποι χριστιανοι θα ερχονται ως απλοι προσκυνητες και θα υπαγονται στον Πατριαρχη Ιεροσολημων.
So..let them (Roman Orthodox christians) have the full and absolute safety for their lives,
their temples, their beliefs and to all worship sites currently held within and outside the city.
The rest of the Christians will come as ordinary pilgrims and subject to the Patriarch of Jerusalem.
Achtiname (decree) of Capliph Muʿāwiyah ibn ʾAbī Sufyān 658AD
"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)." Achtiname of Muhammad
This statement is completely not true. The composite bow cost the nomad 0 money. Yes, 0 - as each nomad was able to make such composite bow for himself, he just needed some widely available (mostly organic) materials and time. Nothing more. So even poor nomad was equipped with a composite bow. Of course the richer nomads could have more fancy bows with some ornamentic stuff, but that's it.
I'm deducted It from description in preview. It's quite logical what you've written, but I'm also not sure If every nomad had such skills. For ex. (I'm sure that you know this example, compatriot ) Tatars from Orda Nogajska - according to sources in 17th century they were really poorly equipment, minority (maybe even only elite) had composite bows or sabres, most - masłaki (kind of clubs). Were they lazy?
I'm not expert and I trust you, that every non-slave Magyar could afford such bow (even simple wranglers), as kiskompi've written. Maybe hard times for nomads will come in later centuries...
They were about the 20% of the society. The bők were the clan leaders, and their family (son, brotherm etc.).
Thanks for estimation, considerable part of Magyar army was really well eqipment. Historical battle at Lechfeld will be real challenge If you play Germans...
It is very strong roster, with such horse archers, well equipment bők, some shock cavalry and one of the best infantry (even costly and not numerous) they will be hard nut to crack.
When the knight lance charge event will pop up in the mod some factions will recieve new units fighting the "knight" style.
This does not meen that there wont be such unit before simply because we can not do other way. But that event will triger units like
There is theory that couched lance style come with Avars. There is relation between presence of stirrups and spear/lances in Avar graves. They also had higher "knightly" saddles. I know that It isn't direct evidence -part of Carolingian cavalry also used stirrups but not used couched style. There is no notes from that time that prove It. However, If we take into account saddles typical for shock cavalry and fact that Byzantines copied some Avar impovements, It seems quite possible. On the other hand, why didn't Byzantine and Germans imitate this tactic earlier? What do you think?
Ah yes. So the only unrecruitable in the game will be the Immortals?
No...Magyar Viking guard will be also unique.
There are 2-3 such units in entire game.
Immortals are a very unique case...
They are cataphracts (we already have Hikkanati for that role)..
There is no need to have another cataphract lancer unit when we have already three...
Vasilikoi Anthropoi (bodyguards)
Hikkanati (Tagmatic cataphract lancers)
Aristocratae (Thematic cataphract lancers).
@wareg
Yes Magyar roster looks quite strong...
Pechenegs and Turcomans have similar rosters. In fact Pechenegs will be a bit stronger.
But...cavalry can not climb on the walls to take a city....
So Magyars will have a small weakness taking cities...
Last edited by AnthoniusII; January 19, 2013 at 07:50 PM.
Message to all TGC/CBUR fellowship's members :
There is a problem contacting with pms here in TWC. Please log in, in TWHellas develpoment forum to continue our mod's development. Unforthunatly i have no other way to contact you.
Ας εχουν λοιπον, την πληρη και απολυτη ασφαλεια ,οσον αφορα τη ζωη τους ,τους ναους τους ,
τις πεποιθησεις τους και ολους τους προς προσκυνηση τοπους που κατεχουν τωρα εντος και εκτος της πολης.
Οι υπολοιποι χριστιανοι θα ερχονται ως απλοι προσκυνητες και θα υπαγονται στον Πατριαρχη Ιεροσολημων.
So..let them (Roman Orthodox christians) have the full and absolute safety for their lives,
their temples, their beliefs and to all worship sites currently held within and outside the city.
The rest of the Christians will come as ordinary pilgrims and subject to the Patriarch of Jerusalem.
Achtiname (decree) of Capliph Muʿāwiyah ibn ʾAbī Sufyān 658AD
"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)." Achtiname of Muhammad
This mod is one of the best around, it will be an amazing experience.
I am fascinated by the synergy of historical acuracy and high quality moddels and textures.