View Poll Results: Wich faction should take the Hattori's place ?

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  • IGA SOKOKU IKKI ( peasants , few armors , hit and run tactics )

    2 9.09%
  • ASAKURA ( proud clan , few but deadly )

    9 40.91%
  • HOSOKAWA ( Nobles and rich, chinese influence , not so skilled )

    5 22.73%
  • TOYOTOMI ( will rappresent a generic little clan that rise to power )

    4 18.18%
  • NANBAN FACTION ( a bit less historical ..but interesting )

    2 9.09%
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Thread: TRUE SAMURAI final

  1. #361
    MagicCuboid's Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    Quote Originally Posted by Fra70 View Post
    Someone who play my mod even disband his ashigaru troops when in peace ( due to the slow pace of my mod and reliable alliances ) .
    Yup! As a general rule of thumb, I absolutely disband levy ashigaru if I don't need them within 3 turns. Regular ashigaru are more useful to retain if they have several experience chevrons, but if they're "fresh" I tend to disband them as well. I like your recruiting system because it forces me to think about six months to a year in advance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fra70 View Post
    Im having some problems switching Sakai to playable ( to change them into the Asakura ) and make the Hattori unplayable ...i fear that this problem can be because the hattori are basically a DLC clan . I hope to find a solution in the next days ...if not i will have to go with plan B ( making the Asakura in the game but as a minor and changing the whole Hattori faction into a more realistic Iga Ikki ) ...lets see .
    You might want to ask Akaie from the Sekigahara mod how he did it, or examine their faction packs. They have several examples of individual "bonus faction" packs which replace the Hattori and Ikko-Ikki with another clan.

    My (uneducated) guess is that you may have to effectively "reposition" the Hattori to Sakai lands, and then "reposition" the Sakai into Hattori lands.
    "I've snapped and plotted all my life. There's no other way to be alive, king, and fifty all at once." - Henry II, The Lion in Winter

  2. #362
    Fra70's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicCuboid View Post
    Yup! As a general rule of thumb, I absolutely disband levy ashigaru if I don't need them within 3 turns. Regular ashigaru are more useful to retain if they have several experience chevrons, but if they're "fresh" I tend to disband them as well. I like your recruiting system because it forces me to think about six months to a year in advance.



    You might want to ask Akaie from the Sekigahara mod how he did it, or examine their faction packs. They have several examples of individual "bonus faction" packs which replace the Hattori and Ikko-Ikki with another clan.

    My (uneducated) guess is that you may have to effectively "reposition" the Hattori to Sakai lands, and then "reposition" the Sakai into Hattori lands.
    Mmm no akai never touched the hattori from what i see , in his packs are always 7-9 factions and never 10...and relocating armies and characters seems to be a pain in the "somewhere" ...wanted to do the "clean" way ..however i can do that as a last resort ...right now im lurking into the sekigahara mod to understand something
    Last edited by Fra70; February 28, 2013 at 02:13 PM.

  3. #363
    Plan C's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    Quote Originally Posted by Fra70 View Post
    ive found a good tactical balance at that level ... paints show that units were on few ranks and on a wide front ...if i give you a 200 men unit you can be deep and wide and that ( due to map sizes ) will destroy the tactical part . also with a 8 units reinforcements range battles expecially late in the game tend to be with alot of units and with many factions...of corse is my ideaof samurai battles
    OK, no probs. I'll keep on playing with current unit sizes and see what happens later. I've only really fought a siege battle so far so I haven't seen the open-field formations yet

    no problems
    Cheers!

    Its true and would be even more historical , of course is not easy to be implemented , hazbones is trying something like that in his mod ( and hes the first trying something like that ) . In my mid ashigaru tend to have an higher upkeep ( confronted to their recruitment cost and their efficacity) but they are faster to recruit and they are not capped , also in my mod ashigaru are tied to farmland . Someone who play my mod even disband his ashigaru troops when in peace ( due to the slow pace of my mod and reliable alliances ) . Of course when you are alone modding you cant go deep in every direction ( the advantage is that you can go ahead with a coherent work ) .

    I hope you will even like more version 3 ( last one ) actually under work
    Yeah, this makes sense. I had an inkling that this would be very difficult to implement but if you're ever twiddling your thumbs, bored, and wanting to do some more modding on S2TW then drop me a line and I will put this concept into a more "implementable" format (with ideas on triggers, thresholds, unit choices for levy, upkeep amounts, test plan etc.).

    Thanks again for the mod mate.
    “If you think technology can solve your security problems, then you don't understand the problems and you don't understand the technology.”

    "It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state"

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  4. #364
    Fra70's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    when the mod is all done at version 3 ..and is polished , totally bug free and perfect i can relaxed work on something special like your idea ( or maybe we can implement hazbones work in some ways ) or making toyotomi and ukita totally emergent factions

  5. #365
    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    Quote Originally Posted by gamesguy View Post
    Hmm, I tried that defensive zerg tactic you described but what do I do if the AI brings archers? Bow samurai in particular just tears me to pieces and ikko ikki archers with their reduced stats are too poor to win a ranged duel...

    There are three options to counter this that I use the most.


    1) Units die sadly and with the ikko-ikki's reduced troop tree, you need to bait the enemy with sacrificial units. run around with one unit ahead of your formation to bait archers back and fourth. They especially like to fire a generals, having two generals in a battle is very helpful (keep him close as reinforcement, that way he also gains experience)


    2) Try to engange in a skirmish while you ignore enemy archers and only go for their ashigaru units, they will keep skirmish going, then move your army up in formation passing your own archers and engaging the enemy. That way your archers take the biggest hit while sparing infantry. Also helps as they get to fire less volleys on your troops alone.


    3) Last and most obvious, get light cavalry fast as , they are not expensive and quite effective in pairs, lure them around after the enemy engages. Do make a point of charging into their rear, is TS, front charges are not as effective as vanilla. (Be aware of armies with many generals as they will crush them if dragged into cavalry melee.


    Hope this helps!

    Regards, ZilverZamp.

  6. #366
    Fra70's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    Ok ive decided to proceed with the IGA SOKOKU IKKI faction ...that will remove alotttt of problems ..i will implement the Asakura as a minor faction substituting the Sakai ..i will try to make the new IGA SOKOKU IKKI faction very tasty

    IGA SOKOKU IKKI OOB

    they will have no samurai , not on foot and neither on cavalry except hatamoto units and the new "ninja" units

    There will be 3 hatamoto units
    - Hattori retainers
    -Momochi retainers
    -Fujibayashi retainers
    they will be still specialized ( bow , spear and sword ) but totally different from other hatamoto units , they will be also a bit bigger than standard hatamoto units and a bit weaker - historically those were little clans , so few samurai but still enough to have fairly large retainers numbers .

    the only mounted units will be a generic IGA cavalry ( a light cavalry ) -historically too many mountains are not good friends for developing cavalry and pasture horses

    the foot troops will rappresent an evolution of the Iga ikki republican levy ... we will start with FARMERS LEVY ( substituting standard ashigarus )
    then we will have an ORGANIZED LEVY ( substituting yari spears )
    then we will have the TODAI-JI LEVY ( substituting naginata samurai ) - historically the temples of IGA were very strong and rich and thus capable to mantain and train fairly trained and armed troops
    and then we will have a LATE REPUBLICAN LEVY - historically a big and developed
    IGA SOKOKU IKKI would have trained and mantained a good ashigaru unit

    To not leave the sword branch empty they will be able to equip a little amout of sword ashigaru units ( different from the ones we know ) and the final step of tree sword tree will be required to develop high tier units

    the ninja units will be divided in 3 different levels
    -Genin ninjas - historically are escaped low levels Samurai enlished into the
    IGA SOKOKU IKKI army ...they will look like more disbanded ronins using soft guerrilla techniques
    -Chunin ninjas - is the classic historical ninja ..a light warrior well trained in guerrilla warfare poor armoured but quite skilled with missile weapons ( bow )
    -Jonin ninjas - is the elite of Samurai/ninjas units ...well armoured and armed with muskets they also excell in melee fighting ..they can also hide quite well

    Archers will be divided in
    Farmers archers and Hunters skirmishes - historically very plausible due the characteristic of the iga region

    Musketeers will be divided in
    Untrained teppo levy
    Trained Iga teppo levy

    they will not have access to my custom units ( shock troops , nanban etc ... ) but they will be able to employ vassal troops

    I think that all that will make of this a very interesting faction , with a fair number of new textures and new colours .


  7. #367
    Ygge's Avatar Signifer
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    Great! Good luck!

  8. #368
    Cellfish's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    AWESUM SOUNDS SO MUCH BETTER... GREAT!

  9. #369
    Fra70's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    Deeply working on the new Iga units ..ive already done 4 ( the 4 levy ashigaru units ) ..soon i will post the pictures ..
    i think that in 3 days all units should be made and after i will work on mons and buttons ...

  10. #370
    GERMANICUS's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    Your dedication and relentless sffort to finish your mod is very appreciated! I look for the screenshots of the Iga units with great excitement.
    I must confess I have held back from playing V2 as I was more interesting with the features of the full build of V3. Thanks again for bringing new life to Shogun2.

    Vive Fra70!
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  11. #371
    GERMANICUS's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    WTF Double post again!
    Last edited by GERMANICUS; March 01, 2013 at 11:15 AM.
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  12. #372
    GERMANICUS's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    Triple post.
    Last edited by GERMANICUS; March 01, 2013 at 11:16 AM.
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  13. #373
    Fra70's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    of the 4 steps ( even if are not exactly progressive ..the follow often different tech and building trees ) of Ashigaru melee infantry the Farmers Levy are of corse the weaker . They are tied to the agricolture buildings and they are capped ( cos you cant get too many farmers away ) ... they are very weak but they have some bonuses : 1) they are immune to attrition ( attrition is their everyday life ! ) 2) the can skirmish ( run baby run ) 3) they are resistent to fatigue ( they wear so little armor ... )


  14. #374
    Fra70's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    The Citizens Levy are ashigaru troops got not only by the farmers class but also from poor Artisans and Merchants ...they benefit better armor and equipment and are roghly comparable to middle normal ashigarus ...however they take 3 turns to be completed and they have worse armors ...still they have some bonuses like a better morale and they can build bamboo walls for defence against cavalry ( when defending of course )


  15. #375
    Ygge's Avatar Signifer
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    They should surely suffer from attrition during winter going dressed like that.(the farmers)

  16. #376
    Fra70's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    Iga had very big temples ( Todai-Ji was one ) and while they dont produce standard monks they train and equip a good levy ... they take 3 turns to be completed but are a reliable and well armored troop of naginata ashigaru


  17. #377
    Fra70's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    If one is lucky to reach epic Architecture the iga "republic" can produce the Iga Republican Levy ...a very late and efficient Ashigaru spear unit ...not capped


  18. #378
    PumkinKing's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    Just wow, you work gets better and better each day you work on it ^^. I really looking foward to version 3 and the work after the mod is finished.

    Some note, i started a campaign with date (hard) and iam at war with kono and Hatakeyama. I was able to win some battles and was shure to conquer them booth. But now they have 2 armys full of samurai! ( and that with only 1 province left and in early campaign stage!). I found that pretty suspicious. ^^

    here one example pic(kono has such kind of army too):

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  19. #379
    Fra70's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    they must have had the time and money to build that kind of armies ..at hard its not that the AI get all that help . Thats why you have always to search for a decisive battle and/or lure the enemy to attack you in a ( well defended ) castle :p

  20. #380
    MagicCuboid's Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: TRUE SAMURAI v2

    I love the Iga previews, you've totally endeared me to them as a faction! I love the multiple tiers of ashigaru; it totally gives them a unique, almost early Roman feel. I was going to give Tokugawa another go with the bugfix, but I will put them on hold to try to form my own Republic!
    "I've snapped and plotted all my life. There's no other way to be alive, king, and fifty all at once." - Henry II, The Lion in Winter

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