TRUE SAMURAI final

[[G-Shock]]

Why autodisbandig ? that will transform Shogun 2 in a RTS ...you will stop caring your units and will give the idea that Samurai are just fast trained soldiers .

It's the opposite actually.
Training shock troops would take 3 months (it's recruiting not training) and that's a long period for just 20/30 men. If you consider the slow replenish rates, they would still be the most cared for units on the battlefield and the player would keep them very safe in castles to replenish when close to 50% losses. Besides, when a unit reaches 50% it is not combat effective any more. We have to take replenishments from somewhere and the autodisbanded units are a good "excusation".
The final idea pushing me to the autodisband is the fact that the shock troops are killers. Faster to move, higher morale, much higher combat statistics and a few special powers. Without a "brake" they will become super units with experience, hence the autodisband PREVENTS this from happening.

[Fra70]

We are not talking about average men who get trained ...we are talking about men of a determinate caste who passed all the life to train THEMSELVES to war . So they werent "trained" but "organized" at best .
So the disband option would have sense only if the disbanded people would have joined another unit ( something that dont happen automatically in TW ) . The most realistic option is the player that merge units after a battle BUT this is not also very historical since a Samurai would have continued to fight for his lord ( that is not always the Daimyo ) even in 3 .... and those 3 samurai that survived a battle would never "disband" their way of life . SO it will be very realistic to have on the battlefield very depleted units .

( That is my opinion and everyone is legit to have another one ...but since is my mod i try to put inside my historical view of that age , anyway i always welcome your opinions )

[VENNONETES]

Just an info, the new ACC 59h is really near to the release! Maybe it's already released ^^


PS scusa ma devi perdonare il mio ingleseda 14enne :\

[Fra70]

YEs i will wait to check it !!

btw im slowed down a bit by the very boring TXT files and looking for a way to change Siege's starvation turns .... all the rest is done ( i hope no one will want the encyclopedia files !! )

[Erwin Rommel]

( what if every Daimyo had his own Li Naomasa

Its Ii Naomasa.

Well we sort of have that in Seki, like Sanada Masayuki, the daimyo, has Sanada Yukimura as a cavalry officer of an elite cavalry in the Shinano Sanada campaign.

[Fra70]

yes a very excellent mod Erwin , i know it very well

Meanwhile ...
Ive started playtesting single battles and right now im very happy with the results . finally keeping units in reserve mean something in a TW battle !!!
Ive lowered the fatigue of running ( to not penalize manouvering , but speed of units is reduced ) and ive raised alot the fatigue of fighting ( as it should be ) ...so now is essential to rotate units or keeping some in reserve .
Everything else work fine and everything seems very realistic ...a very tactical battle .
Maybe i feel the units a bit on the tiny side ...i will do other experiments and see if its the case to add some men to each ( however now your have to stretch units alot and that is very realistic )

[Fra70]

I will wait another day to find a solution about changing the siege starving turns ...if i dont find i will release the mod anyway for playtesting ( everything is working fine and is totally debugged ....i hope so )

Ive inserted the last version of ACC too !

[PumkinKing]

Your mod sounds really interesting. I hate how in later vanilla game every army has hundrets of samurai, thats like in middle age where everywere are knights. Every army looks like : "knight, knight, knight, guy with the banner, kinght, knight....", same in shogun 2. I mean this were elite troops, wich have many expirience in battle.

Second think are the arrows/ bows. There are 150 people shooting at an unit of samurai and only two getting down... that makes the bow units unnecessary, especially the ashigaru bow units.

there are a few things I would like to talk about:

1. Do you changed something in economy? (markets etc.?)

2. You said you will use "VASTATOR UNIT STYLE", the mod looks clearly good, but were there really samurai which were masked completely without helmet???

3. You said you dont want this masses againgst masses fights, that sounds really good. I self played always on medium unitsize so it dosent looks too big. But how can i imagine? will the enemy split his troops on the battlefield?

4. What are your future plans for the mod? (tech tree changes, more units,....)

5. i you should more advertise your mod, so more people will stay in the thread. Maybe some screens and a Features in the start thread etc.

just some thinks that are getting trough my mind while i was follow your mod.

sorry for my english it is not my native language and i was not in mood to look for correctness

best wishes

[=Vastator=]

2. You said you will use "VASTATOR UNIT STYLE", the mod looks clearly good, but were there really samurai which were masked completely without helmet???

Common... it's only some men of a unit (one of the semi-fantasy saint of DLC), which i already fixed for the next version

[Fra70]

1. Do you changed something in economy? (markets etc.?)

My goal was to make the economy less dependant from trade , also now navies ( ships are already capped too ) can block a much less percentage of trading . Now difficulty levels touch less the money income ( ive helped the AI in other more realistical ways ) . Plus now every Military building cost something ( not much ) to be mantained , so now you must have your training hubs and you cant produce always close to the frontlines ( its something i did miss from others TWs )

2. You said you will use "VASTATOR UNIT STYLE", the mod looks clearly good, but were there really samurai which were masked completely without helmet???

I think in medieval Japan everything could happen regarding armors ..like the one of Takeda Shingen . Vastator mod is so precious .

3. You said you dont want this masses againgst masses fights, that sounds really good. I self played always on medium unitsize so it dosent looks too big. But how can i imagine? will the enemy split his troops on the battlefield?

Ive done everything i could about the AI ( and very little can be done ) , but the main goal is to not force you into mass fighting just because the AI do . Units are slower , units are thinner , combat fatigue is crucial , melee defences are improved ...so there is much more time to impose a tactical battle . Anyway Sengoku jidai battles werent a triumph of creativity once started ....

4. What are your future plans for the mod? (tech tree changes, more units,....)

i dont want to make version 1 ...1.01 ...1.01b ...etc ... must be almost perfect from the beginning .
things i would like to add later ( but i dont know if i will ) .
1) a total retexturing of units (3 colors are really too few )
2) provincial exclusive units and adding more units
3) making the same to the Genpei dlc ( expecially retexturing the units )

5. i you should more advertise your mod, so more people will stay in the thread. Maybe some screens and a Features in the start thread etc.

i will organize better the starting post , you are right ... but first the meat and then the smoke .

Thank you

[Fra70]

Ive started testing the campaign , with the Date at Hard ...everything very fine until now , i want to see what happen in the rest of japan while i carve a strong clan in the north .
If everything is fine tomorrow i will release the beta for everyone to test it .

[VENNONETES]

Good news!

[[G-Shock]]

Hard to keep track but doing the possible to follow the discussion and updates.

1) I didn't say Shock unit was trained, I said it was recruited.

This why 3 months recruiting time would do, slow replenishment rates, high autodisband rate (unit size is too small to keep it operational when losses reach 50%. Non Combat effective this unit would be deployed in place of a combat-effective unit, so it's better to disband it). The units we fictionally disband come back as replenishments. I mean the disbanded units justify the replenishments to the active units.

2) About unit size and recruitment
The best thing you can do is decide what units are bulk and give them the 100 man size. Work your way DOWN in unit size as you progress UP in unit quality on a 5/1 ratio. I am personally against any kind of differentiation between units of the same block. Naturally there should be differences between spear and other weapons because of its "vs cavalry bonus" but the rest is not about the weapon but about the troop quality. What I am saying is that a no dachi unit (Shock) should fight exactly as a Naginata unit (Shock) whereas a Naginata unit (Bulk) should fight exactly as a Sword unit (Bulk). Again, the difference goes in the spear units. These should have a higher charge value, a bonus vs cav but be inferior in melee and defense (clumsy weapons). Mind a battlefield is not a 1vs1 challenge. There's spacing, chaos, corpses on the field, formation and many other factors involved.

Same unit size and same unit stats for the 2 blocks of units would help testing a lot. You want a colorful and mixed army type? Work on different dojos so that some provinces can only build 1 type of military dojo and in this dojo only 1 type of bulk and only 1 type of shock unit. Player and AI will recruit both and they have very different recruiting times.
With appropriate map moving speeds, all provinces will send troops to the armies so that reinforcing is fast and armies are balanced but recruitment is slow (hence if you lose the army it's game over).

3) I expect the increased movement speed to allow safe retreats to address the MAIN problem of CA's ridiculous AI.

What we have now: AI attacks and is defeated, gets kicked back a few cm on the map, next turn it's destroyed.
What you should try to reach: AI attacks and is defeated, gets kicked back to its own castle, next turn if you want to destroy that army you must lay siege and risk losing yours.

It's about MP.

[Fra70]

The mod is finished , unfortunately my dear G-Shock we have some different views about what is a "realistic" simulation of Sengoku Jidai warfare is and so i can only encourage you to make your own mod ( thats why i wanted to make my own ..because my view wasnt reflected by any of the mods around )

what you call Shock and Bulk is the difference between Samurai and Ashigaru but is more than a mere difference between shock and bulk , is a difference of social caste/mentality too and ive tried to implement it.
Regarding weapons i dont agree ..if you give me a sword or a spear i will fight in two totally different ways .
But again no one of us was there to see how a samurai battle was ( and even Turnbull have very confused ideas )

[PumkinKing]

nice to hear. will test it when the download is ready.

I will write my opinion after some testing then.

[PumkinKing]

Common... it's only some men of a unit (one of the semi-fantasy saint of DLC), which i already fixed for the next version

i dont want that it sounds like an attack against you and your mod, it looks pretty good and i think its a good choice to use the models in this mod .


There is a question i have, i read alot abaout japan. but i never readed something about siege fights. did they really climb up the walls in every fight ^^? you can put your bow units at such a gate, but the enemy only climbs up the walls the whole time. ( okay next time i will write in an better english ^^)

I think your way of work sounds good, instead of giving little pieces from time to time you give the whole think in one. maybe you could bring out the patches in form of "addons/ extension packs".

[VENNONETES]

I had a great battle, on hard, the IA used his army very well!
The balance beetween cav-meele-ranged is very well made and the stats, imo, are good!
I really like how armour now is important and makes the difference!

I just edited 2 screens for now (they're fast editing)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Fra70]

good good !! dont waste time !! return to test !! test test test !!!

( eccellenti screens come al solito !! poi mi dici come fai )

[Surveyor K]

Waiting for this mod eagerly. There sure is a need for this kind of a mod.

[PumkinKing]

cant wait for testing, hope you will give us the download-link soon.