95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

[sumskilz]

Also, I would ask everyone stop using words like "attack" and "target" in this thread. It's absurd. We're not launching drone strikes on cathedrals. We're just pointing out flaws in certain claims (or learning things that invalidate those claims).

Maybe they could just change up the metaphor.

If you rape Islam in the same aggressive fashion you violate Christianism…

[fkizz]

The terms "attack the point" or "defend this idea" are often used when talking about debate strategy. It is not a derrogatory misleading term like Lazarus implies, it's a normal one.

That said, it is true Christianity is the easier one to criticize. Afterall, if you were against Islam all the time who knows what radical muslims would do to you, and if you made similiar critics to Judaism to the ones I hear here to Christiniaty you would risk being shunned as an anti-semite.

Regardless I've heard many critics to the Old Testament and Old Testament has much in cmmon with the Torah, but people always prefer to avoid pointing out the Torah instead, after all who wants to be called an anti-semite.

So, go after the ones who turn the other cheek where you have bigger chances of not being harmed. Which is kinda ironic. They critize the most kind-hearted and moderate/secular religious groups, and leave the groups who have potential defences against criticism alone. (said defenses label of anti-semite, or usual Islam comunity response to critics.)

[Kissaki]

The terms "attack the point" or "defend this idea" are often used when talking about debate strategy. It is not a derrogatory misleading term like Lazarus implies, it's a normal one.

That said, it is true Christianity is the easier one to criticize. Afterall, if you were against Islam all the time who knows what radical muslims would do to you, and if you made similiar critics to Judaism to the ones I hear here to Christiniaty you would risk being shunned as an anti-semite.

Regardless I've heard many critics to the Old Testament and Old Testament has much in cmmon with the Torah, but people always prefer to avoid pointing out the Torah instead, after all who wants to be called an anti-semite.

So, go after the ones who turn the other cheek where you have bigger chances of not being harmed. Which is kinda ironic. They critize the most kind-hearted and moderate/secular religious groups, and leave the groups who have potential defences against criticism alone. (said defenses label of anti-semite, or usual Islam comunity response to critics.)

Oh, for crying out loud. No Westerner has ever piped down out of fear of Islam. Pat Condell doesn't seem very scared. Nor does Bill O'Reilly, Terry Jones, or any of the better or lesser known critics whose voices are heard all over the West. Where do we get the notion that people are afraid to criticize Islam? From the Islam critics. That's a bit of a paradox.

[fkizz]

Oh, for crying out loud. No Westerner has ever piped down out of fear of Islam. Pat Condell doesn't seem very scared. Nor does Bill O'Reilly, Terry Jones, or any of the better or lesser known critics whose voices are heard all over the West. Where do we get the notion that people are afraid to criticize Islam? From the Islam critics. That's a bit of a paradox.

Muslim protest:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jylland...ns_controversy

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/02/wo...mark.html?_r=0

Attempt to kill Danish Cartoonist Fails
COPENHAGEN (AP) — The police foiled an attempt to kill an artist who drew a cartoon depicting the Prophet Muhammad that sparked outrage in the Muslim world, the head of Denmark’s intelligence service said Saturday.

But maybe it's a bit different in Europe and USA.

[Kissaki]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jylland...ns_controversy

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/02/wo...mark.html?_r=0

Ah, Photoshop. That's some invention, huh? And who has been silenced?

[fkizz]

Ah, Photoshop. That's some invention, huh?

Those pictures are real, such protest happened. You didn't know of it? Although there might be a minor shoop I didn't find, but this protest got notorious in europe.

Plus the USA ambassador in Lybia who got killed over the rage of the video "Innocence of Muslims".

[sumskilz]

if you made similiar critics to Judaism to the ones I hear here to Christiniaty you would risk being shunned as an anti-semite.

I don’t think outspoken atheists shy away from criticizing any sort supernatural claims made by anyone, but there are a few factors that make Judaism less likely to be discussed - Jewish fundamentalism isn't politically relevant outside of Israel, Jews in other countries as religious minorities are strongly supportive of secularism, they don't proselytize, and those who do make supernatural truth claims are still pro-science.

[Kissaki]

Those pictures are real, such protest happened. You didn't know of it? Although there might be a minor shoop I didn't find, but this protest got notorious in europe.

Plus the USA ambassador in Lybia who got killed over the rage of the video "Innocence of Muslims".

Strangely the same font on all the signs, and I have seen at least two different slogans on the sign of one of those guys, from the same protest. And even if we are to take these slogans at face value, where are these massacres of people who insult Islam? Also, the ambassador in Libya was NOT killed because of the video "Innocence of Muslims". The terrorists deliberately used that video (apparently chosen from Youtube at random) to get a protest going, and they attacked the embassy in cover of the protest. None of the protesters were actually involved.

[fkizz]

Strangely the same font on all the signs, and I have seen at least two different slogans on the sign of one of those guys, from the same protest. Also, the ambassador in Libya was NOT killed because of the video "Innocence of Muslims". The terrorists deliberately used that video (apparently chosen from Youtube at random) to get a protest going, and they attacked the embassy in cover of the protest. None of the protesters were actually involved.

The protest was real nonetheless, and such shocking messages were carried in their signs. It's part of internet that viral images get one or two shoops after a while, doesn't mean the original picture/event never happened.

So you're not going to adress the danish who drew the "offensive" muhamed cartoon and got a murder attempt?

[Kissaki]

The protest was real nonetheless, and such shocking messages were carried in their signs. It's part of internet that viral images get one or two shoops after a while, doesn't mean the original picture/event never happened.

So you're not going to adress the danish who drew the "offensive" muhamed cartoon and got a murder attempt?

Sure, I can address that. That's one guy. And then there was the guy who got killed in the Netherlands. So that's two guys. Considering that there are over 200 000 Muslims in Denmark and over 900 000 in the Netherlands, those are hardly alarming statistics. The UK has nearly 3 million and Germany 4 million. How many crimes by Muslims motivated by faith? I come from Norway, and I can list more crimes against Muslims than by Muslims.

And if the reason people criticize Islam less than Christianity (in your estimation, anyway) is that they are frightened to do so, then the Jews must be the scariest people on earth, since Judaism as a religion is criticized far, far less than both Christianity and Islam. Also, if you feel the weight of fear upon you when it comes to criticizing Islam, what are you doing criticizing Islam? Aren't you afraid you are going to get brutally murdered? I put it to you that you do not fear Islamic reprisals in the slightest, because on the internet you enjoy anonymity. The same anonymity is also enjoyed by most others on the internet, so fear of reprisals can hardly be the issue.

[fkizz]

Sure, I can address that. That's one guy. And then there was the guy who got killed in the Netherlands. So that's two guys. Considering that there are over 200 000 Muslims in Denmark and over 900 000 in the Netherlands, those are hardly alarming statistics.

Not just one or two guys, those are 2 mediatic and famous anti-islam personell, so Muslims put them both in danger (I assume you're mentiong Wildeers aswell)

Not to mention the violent reactions to the movie "inocence of muslims"

So you see the assassination attempt of a person as a mere statistic rather than a tragedy? How condemnable.

Not to mention those 2 examples are examplary cases to what danger will fall into the next person who dares to be famously anti-muslim.

If christians reacted like muslims, dawkins would have had already one murder attempt. That's the point you're avoiding by playing with numbers.

The UK has nearly 3 million and Germany 4 million. How many crimes by Muslims motivated by faith?

9/11 was motived by faith aswell. 9/11 doesn't count all of a sudden? Or too little people died to be statistically relevant?

Not to mention the terrorist strikes in London subway and Madrid subway, both by radical muslims.

I come from Norway, and I can list more crimes against Muslims than by Muslims.

From your speech, I assume you're part of the multiculti doctrine who is extremely protective of minorities?

And if the reason people criticize Islam less than Christianity (in your estimation, anyway) is that they are frightened to do so, then the Jews must be the scariest people on earth, since Judaism as a religion is criticized far, far less than both Christianity and Islam.

Tinfoil hat, or you just didn't read.. I clearly mentioned more than 2 times criticizing Judaism comes from fear of being labelled as an anti-semite rather than fear of safety.

Also, if you feel the weight of fear upon you when it comes to criticizing Islam, what are you doing criticizing Islam? Aren't you afraid you are going to get brutally murdered? I put it to you that you do not fear Islamic reprisals in the slightest, because on the internet you enjoy anonymity. The same anonymity is also enjoyed by most others on the internet, so fear of reprisals can hardly be the issue.

I barely criticized Islam. I posted pictures of protesters who wanted to be seen, so I'm doing a favour to the protesters. Asides from mentioning intimidation, which they do and have done in a way as to be noticed aswell, I didn't criticize Islam the religion.

[Knight of Heaven]

Sure, I can address that. That's one guy. And then there was the guy who got killed in the Netherlands. So that's two guys. Considering that there are over 200 000 Muslims in Denmark and over 900 000 in the Netherlands, those are hardly alarming statistics. The UK has nearly 3 million and Germany 4 million. How many crimes by Muslims motivated by faith? I come from Norway, and I can list more crimes against Muslims than by Muslims.

And if the reason people criticize Islam less than Christianity (in your estimation, anyway) is that they are frightened to do so, then the Jews must be the scariest people on earth, since Judaism as a religion is criticized far, far less than both Christianity and Islam. Also, if you feel the weight of fear upon you when it comes to criticizing Islam, what are you doing criticizing Islam? Aren't you afraid you are going to get brutally murdered? I put it to you that you do not fear Islamic reprisals in the slightest, because on the internet you enjoy anonymity. The same anonymity is also enjoyed by most others on the internet, so fear of reprisals can hardly be the issue.

Kissaki please...

[Lazarus]

The protest was real nonetheless, and such shocking messages were carried in their signs. It's part of internet that viral images get one or two shoops after a while, doesn't mean the original picture/event never happened.

So you're not going to adress the danish who drew the "offensive" muhamed cartoon and got a murder attempt?

Nobody said Islam didn't throw crazy protests. We said it didn't shut us up. So far you've just provided us with protests - not people who have backed away from Islam because of the protests.

[fkizz]

Nobody said Islam didn't throw crazy protests. We said it didn't shut us up. So far you've just provided us with protests - not people who have backed away from Islam because of the protests.

Kissaki even implied the proof-picture of the protest was a photoshoop..

Some people backed away yes. While there's no way of determining it, the fact that the Danish author got a murder attempt and Wildeers needs personal security 24/7 makes anybody careful/afraid of speaking against Islam in a mediatic way. This is self evident.

[Lazarus]

Some people backed away yes.

Who?

While there's no way of determining it, the fact that the Danish author got a murder attempt and Wildeers needs personal security 24/7 makes anybody careful/afraid of speaking against Islam in a mediatic way. This is self evident.

None of this says that people backed away from criticizing Islam, which is what you criticized us for.

[fkizz]

None of this says that people backed away from criticizing Islam, which is what you criticized us for.

Obviously it did. A guy who mediatically criticized Islam got a murder attempt, the other has bodyguards 24/7, more than enough to supress/disencourage similiar cases. It's called repression.

[Dr Zoidberg]

"mediatically"?

[fkizz]

"mediatically"?

Was born out of Luso-English. Replace "mediatically" it with "using the mass media". We have that word in Portuguese so I Anglofied it by instinct. Happens ocasionally.

[Lazarus]

A guy who mediatically criticized Islam got a murder attempt,

But did he shut up?

the other has bodyguards 24/7

But did he shut up?

more than enough to supress/disencourage similiar cases. It's called repression.

No. The absolute most that this kind of behavior does is make us criticize our antagonists anonymously - and with the internet, that doesn't slow us down at all. I'm sorry, but the Christian victim complex just doesn't play out.

[sumskilz]

Okay, just started watching this, but the first ten minutes so far consists of atheist criticism of Islam:



They discuss the very topic of this thread.