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Thread: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

  1. #181

    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    The religion that dominates the developed world is Christianity, and the developed world is where majority of atheists are, because developed lifestyles allow much more liberal thoughts. Therefore atheists will attack and base arguments on the religions they are familiar with and their culture consists of.
    Last edited by Invictus XII; January 18, 2013 at 04:06 AM.
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  2. #182
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    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    For obvious reasons Christianity that is now accepted to be " Christian " is an easy target simply because it carries no weight from God whatsoever. It has delivered nothing but names, the very reason that so many leave to become atheist. The bulk of its ministry consists of men that do not accept the literacy of Scripture, have no indwelling whatsoever of the Holy Ghost and freely give credence to Darwin more than God.

    God's word to it is but a whimper compared to the days of the Apostles and so it has become more or less a laughing stock even within its own following. There is no great power of God, no Spiritual awakening in the corridors that its great buildings were originally built to express. Watered down preaching has replaced the fire from the bellies of them who once strutted their corridors.

    But since that was no more than the inevitable preached by the Apostles as a warning, it must also be remembered that Christianity was never ever meant to be a huge conglomerate concentrating its efforts in world domination. Leave that to the wide pathers but to the narrow pathers it is another story altogether. One that is built by God wherein entry to heaven if passed is guaranteed, but nothing to do with this world.

    It has become a religion based on things that are seen, things like statues, relics, icons, beads and many other idols that are no more than dead objects worthy of whatever the followers get from them and that being nothing except it penetrates the outer flesh and leaves the innermost bereft of God and His Spirit. That is why it is so easy a target, especially from all them that once inside it are now left to become atheist.

    So the attacks will continue and quite rightly so but don't have this allusion that it is because they are of God. He continues to build the ecclesia despite it all. His people know His voice and He theirs. It is just that the goats are in the same fold as them but in name only never knowing the power of God at all. The goats can utter the dead letter but the body know what is of God and what is not.

  3. #183

    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    Not just one or two guys, those are 2 mediatic and famous anti-islam personell, so Muslims put them both in danger (I assume you're mentiong Wildeers aswell)
    Those are still just two people.


    Not to mention the violent reactions to the movie "inocence of muslims"
    What violent reactions? There was a protest, yes, incited by the terrorists as a SMOKE SCREEN. The violence was perpetrated by the terrorists, not the protesters.


    So you see the assassination attempt of a person as a mere statistic rather than a tragedy? How condemnable.
    Huh? Word-twisting, now? How about you actually back up your claims instead?


    Not to mention those 2 examples are examplary cases to what danger will fall into the next person who dares to be famously anti-muslim.
    Still just two examples, out of the hundreds of thousands if not millions we'd see if you were actually right.


    If christians reacted like muslims, dawkins would have had already one murder attempt. That's the point you're avoiding by playing with numbers.
    Dawkins has criticized Islam far worse than Christianity. So there goes that argument.


    9/11 was motived by faith aswell. 9/11 doesn't count all of a sudden? Or too little people died to be statistically relevant?
    Those terrorists were Muslim, yes, and naturally like any religious person they drew strength from their faith, but that doesn't mean they attacked the WTC and the Pentagon because they were Muslim. They did it because the WTC was a symbol of Western capitalism, and the Pentagon a symbol of US military power. They were hardly religious targets. In WWII you had priests on both sides blessing bombs and munitions, but only an idiot would say WWII happened because of Christianity.

    Not to mention the terrorist strikes in London subway and Madrid subway, both by radical muslims.
    Am I to take it you believe 9/11 and the subway strikes were motivated by criticism or insults to Islam? If the answer is "no", then it isn't relevant.


    From your speech, I assume you're part of the multiculti doctrine who is extremely protective of minorities?
    I'm just not an aggressive, frothing-at-the-mouth anti-Islamist who claims that Muslims are a bunch of aggressive, frothing-at-the-mouth fundies.


    Tinfoil hat, or you just didn't read.. I clearly mentioned more than 2 times criticizing Judaism comes from fear of being labelled as an anti-semite rather than fear of safety.
    Or it could be that there just aren't that many Jewish influences around us.



    I barely criticized Islam. I posted pictures of protesters who wanted to be seen, so I'm doing a favour to the protesters. Asides from mentioning intimidation, which they do and have done in a way as to be noticed aswell, I didn't criticize Islam the religion.
    But you are saying they're being a certain way because they are Muslims. Because they are motivated by Islam - that is your contention. If it isn't, I have no idea what your argument is.

  4. #184

    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    The irony here is basics thinks there is only one interpretation of Matthew 13. His.
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  5. #185
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    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kissaki View Post
    How many crimes by Muslims motivated by faith? I come from Norway, and I can list more crimes against Muslims than by Muslims.
    Doubt it, but you probably know better. Of course, none of them are motivated by their faith ever because you can always find someone to say their interpretation isn't the right one. I'm more concerned with cultural attitudes to women and sex and how this affects muslims as they develop into adulthood. Additionally, in my opinion, muslims are far more surly and much less polite than immigrants from countries like India and Poland, I work in a train station so I see a great many people every day. Pakistani immigrants in the UK also have pathetic achievement levels at schools which doesn't help their social attitudes and status. When I was at uni I knew loads of Indian guys, studying all sorts of things, I hardly ever met a muslim and those that were muslim usually had one parent who was not a muslim.

    I just honestly don't think they have a very good attitude in general, something I can't really say about our other immigrant groups.
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  6. #186
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    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    When I was at uni I know loads of muslims and no Indians.

  7. #187
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    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    In making that argument you’re accepting part of a theist position, but do they really believe in the same god? Despite the common origins of the monotheistic traditions, different religions and different individuals imagine that God in drastically different ways. The actions/commandments of one monotheistic religion’s God are often unthinkable or even blasphemous to another monotheistic religion’s God. So if you don’t except that “God” exists, why would you accept that different religions believe in the same god? Just because they say so? Is Ahura Mazda the same god? I’m certain that the worldview of Osama bin Laden and many other theists differ as much as your worldview differs with Stalin.
    But that's the point really. Some people hold Stalin as an example of atheism, so just as well one can hold Osama Bin Laden as an example of theism. Just as much Osama Bin Laden and his terrorist activities don't equate to all theism, so doesn't Stalin's totalitarianism equate with atheism. The counter example is only to illustrate the invalidity of the thought process. Though it's a bad way to go about it, that's all I've had lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    You right I actually don't care what he thinks; the point was to illustrate the futility of arguing against a label. He happens to be ought, and on this point, I agree with him. It s simply self- debating to argue against a label.

    In your false dilemma, I have a problem; I don't fit in either category. how is it there is no conception in your mind that someone can come to the conclusion that there is NO way we can ever prove (by evidence or reason) that a god exist? Furthermore, if a god exist what is its nature. The issue is far more complex than your over simply dilemma.

    ....
    Of course we always run into the problem that was is God at all? But as long as you don't believe in God or what you would classify as deities, then you are without theism, and hence an atheist. If you think that you can have no knowledge of God/s in any way then you are an agnostic in addition to being an atheist.

    Why would you take the stance that we (or you) can never prove that God exists? What about Holy Texts, Miracles, Prophets, an impossible distribution of matter at the Big Bang that could be traced to a God? If we can't prove, or have evidence of his existance then why care even to the extent to have any label with regards to him? And if you don't, you're just an atheist.

  8. #188
    Hakkapeliitta's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    The irony here is basics thinks there is only one interpretation of Matthew 13. His.
    He has his own interpretation of a lot things in the Bible, so much so that he can interpret Jesus' words into saying the opposite.

  9. #189

    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakkapeliitta View Post
    But that's the point really. Some people hold Stalin as an example of atheism, so just as well one can hold Osama Bin Laden as an example of theism. Just as much Osama Bin Laden and his terrorist activities don't equate to all theism, so doesn't Stalin's totalitarianism equate with atheism. The counter example is only to illustrate the invalidity of the thought process. Though it's a bad way to go about it, that's all I've had lately.
    Ah, well-played then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  10. #190

    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
    But did he shut up?
    Yes he did, he even got fired and lost his job, asides from that. All this because of criticizing Islam. Happy now?

    Wildeers asides from Death Threats from Islamic comunity barely escaped being jailed by Dutch authorities for hate speech.

    If you really believe you can easily criticize Islam I challenge you to go a country like Pakistan/Yemen and shout on the streets that Islam is pure garbage and the Koran should be burnt and that Mohammed is a false prophet. (if you have the courage for such, that is)

    Consider yourself lucky if you're not stoned or sentenced to death.

    Do the same with Christians and they will just say "oh look another dawkins boy using atheism as an excuse to be inpolite to others and act like a teenager, leave him be."

    Disclaimer: I consider Islam as a valid legit religion, I merely disagree with fanatisms, not with Islam or Muhammed. I also own a Quran.
    Last edited by fkizz; January 19, 2013 at 06:17 PM.

  11. #191
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    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    Do the same with Christians and they will just say "oh look another dawkins boy using atheism as an excuse to be inpolite to others, leave him be."
    Not in certain parts of the world.
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  12. #192

    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    If you really believe you can easily criticize Islam I challenge you to go a country like Pakistan and shout on the streets that Islam is pure garbage and the Koran should be burnt. (if you have the courage for such, that is)
    I never said it was easy. You said we just plain didn't do it which is a blatant lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    Do the same with Christians and they will just say "oh look another dawkins boy using atheism as an excuse to be inpolite to others, leave him be."
    Unless I open up an abortion clinic right? Then I gotta keep an ear out for that ticking bomb.
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  13. #193

    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
    Unless I open up an abortion clinic right? Then I gotta keep an ear out for that ticking bomb.
    Opening up an abortion clinic is on a different level from saying "jesus is a hoax" and you know it.

    Mind you, I live in a traditionally Catholic country and Abortion is legalized. (Portugal)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
    I never said it was easy. You said we just plain didn't do it which is a blatant lie.
    It isn't a lie, and you comitted a strawman. I just said it's much easier to criticize Christianism since no harm will be on your way, they just give you the other cheek in a forgiving way, while criticizing basic tenents of Islam in mass media may get you in life or death trouble, as the murder attempt of danish cartoonist who drew mohammed as a terrorist or death threats on wildeers prove.
    Last edited by fkizz; January 19, 2013 at 06:35 PM.

  14. #194

    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    It isn't a lie, and you comitted a strawman. I just said it's much easier to criticize Christianism since no harm will be on your way, they just give you the other cheek in a forgiving way, while criticizing basic tenents of Islam in mass media may get you in life or death trouble, as the murder attempt of danish cartoonist who drew mohammed as a terrorist or death threats on wildeers prove.
    Even if I conceded this you're still wrong - it's got to do with geographic presence of atheists and the fact that Christianity is the most common religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Brian de Bois-Guilbert View Post
    the Church has only improved mankind in history

    For this there are words, but none that abide by the ToS.

  15. #195

    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
    Even if I conceded this you're still wrong - it's got to do with geographic presence of atheists and the fact that Christianity is the most common religion.
    If even if you agree with me I'm still wrong (second time you say this) what's the point of debating in the first place?

    And of course Christianism being present makes it a more logical target, but the fear related to criticizing Judaism and Islam is also a factor. I'd say a mix of both factors

  16. #196

    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    If even if you agree with me I'm still wrong (second time you say this) what's the point of debating in the first place?
    Not what that means. That means that even if I didn't argue with everything wrong with the point you're making for the sake of moving the debate forward there are more points of issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    I'd say a mix of both factors
    If you had said that to start with then I would have agreed with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Brian de Bois-Guilbert View Post
    the Church has only improved mankind in history

    For this there are words, but none that abide by the ToS.

  17. #197

    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
    If you had said that to start with then I would have agreed with you.
    Then I assume we are in agreement?

  18. #198

    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    To a degree yes. I suspect you would put more weight on the "fear of retribution" than I would, but there is common ground there somewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Brian de Bois-Guilbert View Post
    the Church has only improved mankind in history

    For this there are words, but none that abide by the ToS.

  19. #199
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    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Whut? Who on earth fears criticising judaism, I've literally never come across that ever. Not personally and I can't say academically. In fact finding someone to criticise jews, and then their religion and then the state of Israel is basically one of the easiest things in the world, a lot of it will be horsecrap but...no no buts just easy to find and horsecrap all over the place.

  20. #200

    Default Re: 95% of atheistic attacks are against christianity.Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    You realize no religion is static, most just pretend they are. There’s no need to throw out the stories or the traditions, why would you throw out the literature of a culture or anything else that’s not deemed harmful?
    This has to be one of the oddest things you wrote. There is value in anything any culture or society as written or produce. There is no exception.


    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I don’t know, maybe your point holds if you think a sizable portion of Jews are extreme among religious people in general, but then I don’t know how you quantify extreme.

    The stories are foundational, as in they were the foundational literature of the community, the living tradition has just evolved over time finding new ways to use or understand the stories. Modern Jews are just aware of this, and so don’t pretend that they aren’t doing so. It helps that everyone knows the same stories.

    Either way, for Jews who don’t believe in God as an existent being, it’s irrelevant. God is good for some Jews, because to them “he” is an ethical ideal (and, no they don’t think the God depicted in the Bible is an ethical ideal). Anyway, God as conceived of typically by Christians is not a dominant view among Jews.
    As I stated there is two ways to look at the moral teachings within the scriptures; [1] it is the inerrant word of God [2] you pick and choose; dance around the apparent incorrigible behavior of God. What i am reading from you is a very clever way of avoiding the uncomfortable behavior of God.


    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    No, you also have ritual, identity, tradition, and community cohesiveness. From an anthropological perspective, philosophies don’t function as religions do, except for some political ideologies which come very close to being religions. By your definition Buddhism would be a philosophy.
    Review Time... here's what I wrote
    If you remove the stories, the inaccurate history, the insane rules, the incessant magic and magical creatures, and the pleading of the prophets, what is there left to call yourself a Jew?

    I'll tell you; fragments of a philosophy, not a religion.


    If you all you have is "stories" and there is not even an underpinning of morality or value being taught, then what is the point of the story?
    Its odd that you responded as if the two statements are mutually exclusive. In fact, the two statements [1] a sarcastic answer to my own question and [2] "answers" the question and supposes another question. Moreover, you advanced a crazy idea that I was "defining" philosophy???


    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    No, it’s just diversity of personal and/or community opinion. Judaism has been traditionally more concerned with actions than belief. I think only the Orthodox make strong claims to that effect, but the criticism would be more about “correct” practice than “true” faith.
    Correct practices, hmm. Care to ask a Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, etc... how many sacraments they are?

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Or maybe you were talking about what I said about Christian influence. Well, I was speaking from a historical perspective. Obviously whatever any Jews believe has become a Jewish belief, but the idea about a God who is completely good came into Jewish community through Christian and maybe Muslim influence, and there is historical evidence for that. It’s not really reflected in the early Jewish literature, at least not broadly. It’s certainly not how God is depicted in most of the Hebrew Bible, which becomes clear when you compare it to non-Biblical literature of the period.
    ...and this really matter because..... To be honest you are "dancing" as much (if not more) than most Christians. Let's face it, Morality comes from society, not religion. GOD is not the basis of morality; he is not the inspiration; he is not anything to do with morality-- We are; society!


    Quote Originally Posted by Hakkapeliitta View Post
    Of course we always run into the problem that was is God at all? But as long as you don't believe in God or what you would classify as deities, then you are without theism, and hence an atheist. If you think that you can have no knowledge of God/s in any way then you are an agnostic in addition to being an atheist.

    Why would you take the stance that we (or you) can never prove that God exists? What about Holy Texts, Miracles, Prophets, an impossible distribution of matter at the Big Bang that could be traced to a God? If we can't prove, or have evidence of his existance then why care even to the extent to have any label with regards to him? And if you don't, you're just an atheist.
    How does a book written in antiquity prove anything beyond the atmosphere? What prophet? I once taught a kid who's father was a prophet. Should I have given that kid an "A?"

    Big Bang proved there is a God? Are you sure about this? Or are you just guessing there is God there somewhere? I think you are guessing. Stephen Hawkings says science shows that God was unnecessary. How can be true if the Big Bank "proves" that God exist?


    I referred to myself as an atheist, agnostic, and agnostic atheist. In the end it doesn't matter, because I often have very different views who also label themselves similarly. Personally, if you do not like labels than neither do I. Let's forget the whole deal then- let's not fret over them.

    Are a rare serious note.... I actually do not care if there is a God or not,... and there is also no way we can know.

    ---
    Last edited by PikeStance; January 23, 2013 at 09:16 AM.

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