The most conflictful place on Earth

[Petrucci]

Where is the most conflictful place on Earth located?
We are talking about the locality that spend the longest time spent in conflicts.
Here are the rules:
1. Territory where conflicts happened should be around 0,5 -1M km²except in special circumstances.
2.We will count conflictness(dunno if this is right word, indicate me if I'm wrong) by years of peace and years of war,Its desirable to state them in post(not year by year but e.g. but by eras e. g. Great War 1914-1918 etc), but I'll understand if you don't have enough time or desire to do so.
Territory with the highest percent of war years wins
3. If we look Apennine peninsula, and e.g. Kingdom of Two Sicilies is fighting Moors, and all other Italian states are in peace, we will count as war year for whole Apennine peninsula. Also if Ottoman Empire is fighting Hungary, we will count war years for Asia Minor.
Islands should be look on as natural extension of continental area, in geographical, historical, economical and cultural context,if there aren't special circumstances . So we can add Iceland to Scandinavia, Sicily to Italy, but Britannia with Ireland is separate from Western Europe.
4. As conflict we will count: civil wars, uprisings, inter-state wars, invasions, wars between alliances and world wars.Im not sure if we should count border clashes, so that decision is left upon you. Anyway some conditions must be fulfilled in order to name them conflict such as: number of conflicting solders participating in clash ,frequency of clashes , and their impact on relation between conflicting countries. Borders conflicts must be relevant for certain era, so 200 soldiers are enough in Old age clash, but not in Russo-Chinese conflict.
Once again ,pls suggest and elaborate if you think some other types of conflict should be mentioned.
5. If war happened in January and lasted till February we will still count year as war year.
6.Here's a tricky condition, from when should we start? If we go too much in the past, there's a chance to favorite certain parts of Earth we have more information about , and to speculate about others. So I think we should round off and start at 1000 BC. I know some Egyptologists might call this unfair, but I'm sure tribes in Iberia fight maybe even more often then Egypt does ,but unfortunately we don't have clear evidence.
7. We can't take whole Middle East for conflict place,but we can divide it on few smaller parts ,taking care of cultural, geographical, economical, political etc context. So instead of Middle East we have Asia Minor, Levant, Mesopotamia, Egypt etc
8. Bordering regions will be the cause of main problems ,some of the region are easy to mark, some are not, but I think we can surpass it.


Feel free to ask for clarifications.

So , here are mine suggestions for the most conflictful place on Earth:
1.Balkan
2.Levant
3.Egypt
4. Apennine peninsula
5. Iberian peninsula
6. Central Europe
7. Indochina
Note: This is not ranking,but suggestions for analyzing.


The goal is to find that place by comparing different areas of the world. And we will do it by calculating years people in that areas spend in war ,and years they spend in peace, area with the highest percent of war years is winner. e. g. 2636 (years of war) out of 3013(total years, 1000 bc till now) so its 87,9% war years percentage for Levant , 2109/3013 , Britannia 70% wy etc

So my fellow historians, its time to show us what are you made of

[Poach]

Constantinople: the city has been besieged something like 15-18 times in total.

Megiddo as well has seen a large number of battles over the years.

The general area comprising modern-day Israel and Palestine have seen countless wars and battles, so too has Mesopotamia.

The area comprising Belgium has long been a strategic piece of ground, fought over a lot. Alsace-Lorraine and its immediate area have also been a frontier province between various great states and empires for centuries.

[DarthShizNit]

Adrianople.

[Wulfburk]

I'd bet its Central Europe.

[I WUB PUGS]

The Khyber Pass has seen several dozen invasions move through it...........does that mean anything?

[Petrucci]

Duuno if you understand me well, but we are talking about areas in geographical term, so when you say Constantinople or Adrianople you think about Balkan, right?

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

China, the Hellespont area, Mesopotamia, Palestine and Syria, Central and Eastern Europe, Iberian peninsula, Indochina, India, Iran (but only really from about 800 bc)

[diegis]

South eastern Europe i think is first on the list, unfortunately. Then Indochina i think, maybe not same frequency but if you look at the amount of losses during some conflicts, those are not equalled anywhere in the world. Then maybe Levant area (from Syria to Egypt)

[Thorn777]

More than central Europe? I mean the WW's, napoleonic, 30 year, or Caesars genocidal campaign in Gaul. Etc etc.

[Manco]

Many areas all over the world knew near constant conflict until the Modern Age, so deciding which one had most will probably be mostly nationalist dickwaving.

[diegis]

More than central Europe? I mean the WW's, napoleonic, 30 year, or Caesars genocidal campaign in Gaul. Etc etc.

Well, WW covered more then central Europe, and Gaul is in west of Europe

However, here is some list (not sure how realistic, but still gives some idea)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_death_toll

Look at first positions and see who take the large part of death toll, you will see China all over there.

About southeastern Europe, well, it was in almost continous fights since the prehistory i can say, up to few years ago. See Cyprus invasion from Turkey (1974), Revolution in Romania (1989), war of Transdnistria between Moldova and Russia (1992) and of course wars of Yugoslavia (various periods between 1991-1999).
Not big wars (except partially in former Yugoslavia) but still.

However i agree that Europe as an all, as continent, was the most shredded by conflicts all over the history, from single battles to raids and skirmishers up to prolonged and huge conflicts. Only area not as affected as the rest is the northern Europe, even if they had too their periods.

The huge and over distructive WW 2 (just 3 decades after WW 1, another huge one) seems to put an end however to most of warlike attitudes in Europe, hopefully a good thing (or not, if exaggerated, dont know)

Many areas all over the world knew near constant conflict until the Modern Age, so deciding which one had most will probably be mostly nationalist dickwaving.

I kinda agree with this too

[Petrucci]

Many areas all over the world knew near constant conflict until the Modern Age, so deciding which one had most will probably be mostly nationalist dickwaving.

This is true ,but idea is to find which one knows it the most. And I didn't ask nationalists but historians to discus this topic, still ,no one replied in manner I expected.

[Sar1n]

Longest conflict time? I'd wager on central Africa. Some tribal conflicts originated probably well before some small tribes started to settle on that strange place that will one day be called Europe.

Most deaths? Well, then there's France.

[white-wolf]

Europe.


/end thread

[Petrucci]

Europe.


/end thread

Cool, what part of Europe,why that part, how high is that part war years percentage ,why some other isn't the most conflctful, comparations, justifications ,proofs, evidences ... Thread closed

[Savoyard]

A pub.

[Garbarsardar]

The task is simply impossible, since it involves, ill-defined, arbitrary or simply bizarre parameters.

1. Territory where conflicts happened should be around 0,5 -1M km²except in special circumstances.

I guess you mean "at least 0,5 -1M km²". But why? What makes the specific area suitable? And what is a "special circumstance"?

2.We will count conflictness(dunno if this is right word, indicate me if I'm wrong) by years of peace and years of war,Its desirable to state them in post(not year by year but e.g. but by eras e. g. Great War 1914-1918 etc), but I'll understand if you don't have enough time or desire to do so.
Territory with the highest percent of war years wins

The 1914 war was preceded by possibly related conflicts (Balkan wars). Are such conflicts to be included separately and why?

3. If we look Apennine peninsula, and e.g. Kingdom of Two Sicilies is fighting Moors, and all other Italian states are in peace, we will count as war year for whole Apennine peninsula. Also if Ottoman Empire is fighting Hungary, we will count war years for Asia Minor.
Islands should be look on as natural extension of continental area, in geographical, historical, economical and cultural context,if there aren't special circumstances . So we can add Iceland to Scandinavia, Sicily to Italy, but Britannia with Ireland is separate from Western Europe.

What is a special circumstance? Why a European war (in Hungary) is counted for Asia Minor? Because the seat of Ottoman Empire was in Asia Minor? Then all Roman wars are Italian wars, and no USA war is an American war.

4. As conflict we will count: civil wars, uprisings, inter-state wars, invasions, wars between alliances and world wars.Im not sure if we should count border clashes, so that decision is left upon you. Anyway some conditions must be fulfilled in order to name them conflict such as: number of conflicting solders participating in clash ,frequency of clashes , and their impact on relation between conflicting countries. Borders conflicts must be relevant for certain era, so 200 soldiers are enough in Old age clash, but not in Russo-Chinese conflict.

What is "Old Age"? In rule 6., you specify that we need to start from year 1000. How many battles of 200 soldiers do you know of so we can exclude them?

6.Here's a tricky condition, from when should we start? If we go too much in the past, there's a chance to favorite certain parts of Earth we have more information about , and to speculate about others. So I think we should round off and start at 1000 BC. I know some Egyptologists might call this unfair, but I'm sure tribes in Iberia fight maybe even more often then Egypt does ,but unfortunately we don't have clear evidence.

That is blatantly false. While we have more evidence about the Italian Peninsula in AD 300 than Oceania at AD 1000, there is not a specific "equalizer of information" that defines the years after 1000. So why this arbitrary point? How much do we know about Oceania in AD 1100?

7. We can't take whole Middle East for conflict place,but we can divide it on few smaller parts ,taking care of cultural, geographical, economical, political etc context. So instead of Middle East we have Asia Minor, Levant, Mesopotamia, Egypt etc

Cultural, economic and political entities change and they do not always respect a specific geography. The Mediterranean can be one entity in AD 50 and multiple entities in AD 600

8. Bordering regions will be the cause of main problems ,some of the region are easy to mark, some are not, but I think we can surpass it.

No, we cannot. See above.

So , here are mine suggestions for the most conflictful place on Earth:
1.Balkan
2.Levant
3.Egypt
4. Apennine peninsula
5. Iberian peninsula
6. Central Europe
7. Indochina

If you indeed took the time to made calculations on the above areas based on the rules you are proposing, then, I'm sorry but these calculations are meaningless, as probably this whole thread.

[Hakomar]

Despite the poorly defined parameters, I would estimate Flanders. The problem is do you mean the number of wars, number of battles, number of nations involved, number of casualties, number of involved peoples, etc.?
One other thing; is conflictful a word? I would imagine conflictual is the word you are looking for.

[Petrucci]

The task is simply impossible, since it involves, ill-defined, arbitrary or simply bizarre parameters.



I guess you mean "at least 0,5 -1M km²". But why? What makes the specific area suitable? And what is a "special circumstance"?



The 1914 war was preceded by possibly related conflicts (Balkan wars). Are such conflicts to be included separately and why?



What is a special circumstance? Why a European war (in Hungary) is counted for Asia Minor? Because the seat of Ottoman Empire was in Asia Minor? Then all Roman wars are Italian wars, and no USA war is an American war.



What is "Old Age"? In rule 6., you specify that we need to start from year 1000. How many battles of 200 soldiers do you know of so we can exclude them?



That is blatantly false. While we have more evidence about the Italian Peninsula in AD 300 than Oceania at AD 1000, there is not a specific "equalizer of information" that defines the years after 1000. So why this arbitrary point? How much do we know about Oceania in AD 1100?



Cultural, economic and political entities change and they do not always respect a specific geography. The Mediterranean can be one entity in AD 50 and multiple entities in AD 600



No, we cannot. See above.




If you indeed took the time to made calculations on the above areas based on the rules you are proposing, then, I'm sorry but these calculations are meaningless, as probably this whole thread.

First I'm glad somebody actually read this post. And I would like to answer your questions.
1. Size. 0,5-1M km² . Size of the Balkan is about 0,5M km², size of the Asia Minor 0,75M size of the Egypt 1M ,Iberia 0,58M , Apennine peninsula with Sicily and Sardinia about 0,3M so, its a bit smaller ,but through history this area is strong connected with political, economical, military, cultural connections , so special circumstances are fulfilled and we can put Apennine peninsula in same group like territories I mentioned. Same goes to Britannia and Ireland. Also if we look Scandinavia (not Scandinavian peninsula, difference is we add Finland ,Denmark without Greenland and Iceland) it's size iz about 1,3 M km²,so it's bigger then area I took as standard, but through history ,that territory was specifically connected in many areas and formed one unique region of the world ,so special circumstances are fulfilled despite its bigger then standard.
2. I might not expressed well, when I say era I mean period while war lasted. So you don’t have to say 1914, 1915, 1916,1917 and 1918 WWI , but 1914-1918. Also this very important thing, it’s enough to state one conflict per year.
3. Special circumstances depended on each case . It’s counted if considerable amount of solders from that region is fighting in other region, thus they participate in conflict. Considerable amount is tricky part, but I left you to decide when the number is high enough taking care of century we are talking.
4. Old Age would be(in my case) period between 1000 and 476. Honestly I don’t know many but I suppose some people might know them ,and If they take this thread serious, they might be asking themselves should they count border clashes as conflicts, so I’m here to make them easier.
6. I said its tricky ,and if I increase equality in one area, I will lose it in other. So there is no way to be objective, that’s why I decided to go with 1000 BC ,and unintentionally favored “civilized” nations. Another parameter could be to start when the whole world was discovered. But then, I would blame myself for being Eurocentric (like everything started with Europeans) and miss too much of history. The 1000 BC have one symbolical meaning too, Iron Age started at 1200 ,but it become spread about 1000,and number is round so it’s easy to calculate with it.
7. This is very true. But my question is about place, locality not entities.
8. About bordering ; I agree its freaking hard, but I believe if we are interested and have good will we can do wonders.

Despite the poorly defined parameters, I would estimate Flanders. The problem is do you mean the number of wars, number of battles, number of nations involved, number of casualties, number of involved peoples, etc.?
One other thing; is conflictful a word? I would imagine conflictual is the word you are looking for.

The most important factor is time. So wars are important, on the other hand, casualties and number of battles are not relevant. Number of nations involved is relevant as long as one of the nations comes from specific territory. Number of people involved(depending on era we are analyzing) must be noticeable enough to make conflict important for at least one participating community in specific area. To make it clearer I'm searching for the place that with the longest non-continuous time spent in conflict.
I think I choose right word, although I doubt between warful and conflictful. Here's a link that help me bring decision.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/conflictful

[Azog 150]

Are we talking about sheer number of conflicts? Or size of conflicts? Or the death tolls of conflicts? i think all would probably bring fairly different answers. Furthermore I think Europe seems the easiest answer because its wars are the most well documented.