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Thread: New recruit reporting for duty

  1. #1

    Default New recruit reporting for duty

    Hi guys, thinking of starting up a broken crescent campaign. Now ive only ever played stainless steel and im wondering what are the main difference besides the campaign map? Or game mechanics?

    Even just a few usefull tips for a brand new player? Looking forward to starting up.

    Blackfyre

  2. #2
    Mamertine's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: New recruit reporting for duty

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Blackfyre View Post
    Hi guys, thinking of starting up a broken crescent campaign. Now ive only ever played stainless steel and im wondering what are the main difference besides the campaign map? Or game mechanics?

    Even just a few usefull tips for a brand new player? Looking forward to starting up.

    Blackfyre
    Welcome! The main difference is SS is Vanilla to the Max and BC is something entirely different. No Pope, no Europe (mainly), archers cannot take on whole armies or kill a bunch of armored units and kill half before they approach you. The game is REALLY balanced, foot archers have very few arrows and most edit that. Use archers for harassment, kiting, and wall defense, not as the mainstay of your army. The game is harder from an economic standpoint (buildings more expensive, it takes longer to make a stable economy) and therefore less forgiving (build roads last).

    I personally add arrows to all foot archers and money to certain factions like Rome (they start out with -50,000 iirc).

    Cavalry is a more important role, and there are different kinds with different specialties. Start off as the Crusaders or Ayyubids (Egypt) for a steady transition, even if it's just for a few turns. Do not start off as a horse archer heavy faction like the Seljuks.

    Diplomacy is different, not everyone will want to be your ally. Sacking enemy cities makes other factions dislike you, and exterminating them makes everyone hate you.

    Also there are no gunpowder units.

    It feels really different from vanilla and SS at first, but once you are used to it you'll never be able to go back.

    Have fun! If you have any more questions, just ask. I'll answer what I can.

  3. #3

    Default Re: New recruit reporting for duty

    Hi mamertine, great name btw, love that you hang around forums when you arent starting off punic wars!
    The economy and the massive nerf of archers are the biggest things iv noticed. Is that historical about the archers? Considering the bow was the mainstay of any eastern army i thought it would have been more powerful? That and the general heavy armor rating of many of the units?

    Also ive found it strange that i find it hard to even get trade rights? Playing a roman campaign, was really tough at first but starting to gain a strong foothold in anatolia after a few significant defeats

  4. #4

    Default Re: New recruit reporting for duty

    You probably have difficulty getting trade rights because your a Christian nation (ERE) and your neighbours are Muslims.
    There is automatic bias in the game for e.g it's almost impossible for a Muslin nation to ally a Christian one until later in the game when you have a ton of leverage over them or have made a big effort of being friendly like attacking their enemies and gifts to make your relations very good to perfect..

  5. #5
    Mamertine's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: New recruit reporting for duty

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Blackfyre View Post
    Hi mamertine, great name btw, love that you hang around forums when you arent starting off punic wars!
    The economy and the massive nerf of archers are the biggest things iv noticed. Is that historical about the archers? Considering the bow was the mainstay of any eastern army i thought it would have been more powerful? That and the general heavy armor rating of many of the units?

    Also ive found it strange that i find it hard to even get trade rights? Playing a roman campaign, was really tough at first but starting to gain a strong foothold in anatolia after a few significant defeats

    You know me, I just can't stand it when Rome and Carthage aren't fighting. It's all Syracuse's fault, btw.

    The economy and archers take some time to get used to, the former more than the latter. It is historical with the archers (not too sure about the economy.) Archers were used for defense against HAs and against sieges. HAs were used to harass, demoralize, and break the enemies lines. HA armies can take out other full armies but you have to fire off all your arrows, retreat from the battlefield, then repeat in another battle (your W/L column will look horrible but so what). They are best used against lightly armored enemies. There were armor piercing HAs with heavy bows and arrows, they are represented in both Seljuk factions as CB (close bow), as opposed to RB (regular bow).

    Using feign tactics and have another HA unit ride behind an enemy unit and shooting them in the back is very powerful, but showing enemies with arrows that have armor is close to useless (again, pretty accurate). It takes a lot of micromanagement, but it is worth it and very cheap.

    More info here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=581122

    After economy, diplomacy in general is different. Factions that were historic enemies will not give you trade rights, nor will your enemies allies most of the time. Assassins and spies are even more useless than in vanilla and I never use. Allies can be important, but unlike vanilla, do go around the map trying to collect trade rights from everyone and make 5 alliances. First, that won't happen. And two, doing that will make the alliance(s) you do need strained. I personally almost never get allies in any mod or vanilla, too much of a headache and the AI backstabs you whenever it wants anyways.

  6. #6

    Default Re: New recruit reporting for duty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamertine View Post
    After economy, diplomacy in general is different. Factions that were historic enemies will not give you trade rights, nor will your enemies allies most of the time. Assassins and spies are even more useless than in vanilla and I never use. Allies can be important, but unlike vanilla, do go around the map trying to collect trade rights from everyone and make 5 alliances. First, that won't happen. And two, doing that will make the alliance(s) you do need strained. I personally almost never get allies in any mod or vanilla, too much of a headache and the AI backstabs you whenever it wants anyways.

    Good points and I agree. Actually in all of BC settings the only part I dislike is the diplomacy. The reality is actually quite different than most conceptions as most rulers were very pragmatic with making peace or even alliances with former enemies. I don't mind so much as it is basically historical 'guidance' in a less intrusive way than scripting by BC team but occasionally it seems to make the AI really do 'poor' moves even more than normal.

  7. #7

    Default Re: New recruit reporting for duty

    I agree, unless you are at war with a faction then why on earth would they not want to trade? its mutually beneficial with zero negatives to either party.

    I think alliances are great if you keep it down to one or two, for example in my roman campaign i allied the kypchaks and the have been loyal for the entire game so far (70 plus turns!!), they even swept down the Caucasus in a joint invasion of georgia and are now battling away with the seljuks of iraq as i fight the ayyubids (sp?)

    I think the main problem with horse archers is that their true strength lay in their logistical ability to strike quickly and unexpectedly, they could travel very light (with the mongols and turks anyway) , it is difficult to reflect this in a game where the campaign map and battle map are completely separate entities. The easiest way to compensate for this is to give HA more arrows so you wont need to lose a battle that you have lost no men in, but then you are looking at much longer battles so why not just make them more powerful, but much weaker in close combat so if you do manage to get hold of them then they are dead meat, pretty much like real life. I think the representation of HA in SS is pretty similar to that idea.

    just my two cents

  8. #8

    Default Re: New recruit reporting for duty

    HA cultures should have generals traits giving some more +movement (still suck when they are in the steppes but better than most when in more urbanized regions) and most of their units should have fewer numbers but not all suck. This way it makes sustaining an invasion difficult as army takes losses that are difficult to replace out of AOR and with smaller unit sizes makes even losing 10 men per battle an issue. So if unit normally has 80 men on huge, HA should be 60 or so, which I think makes 30 vs 45 at large size etc.

    Then if their infantry are also smaller... I think it shows that HA armies by and large had less population but with quite movements and most units being both archer and melee capable (though not as good at melee except elites) it would be interesting style of play. Really it might need even more extremely lower unit size as most capable players can do battles with HA losing 20% when using 400 vs 1500 enemy army. What if it becomes 300 vs 1500? That makes the army losing 25% now 225 which compared to 320 as current makes a 2nd battle questionable.
    Last edited by Ichon; January 13, 2013 at 07:05 PM.

  9. #9
    Judeman266's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: New recruit reporting for duty

    There is a submod that uses RR/RC to change the stats and recruitment system. If you don't like the stats in vanilla BC, you might like it better.


  10. #10

    Default Re: New recruit reporting for duty

    a stack of light HA can destroy most enemy forces, the only problem arises when the enemy fields alot of cavalry... which is quite rare. ERE is a good beginner faction despite the annoying debt, they can spam HA too. Diplomacy is strange in BC, most neutral factions will give you trade rights as long as you don't declare war/sack/etc but there are also factions that are programmed to dislike you from the get go... aka the rum seljuks if you play ERE. Alliances are nigh on unbreakable if you can obtain one, some factions give these willingly e.g. the kypchaks and ERE whilst others require bribing. Trading a region is usually effective, one that borders a potential enemy you do not wish to fight is a sound tactic. Many factions need to blitz at the start, conquering many rebel regions to bolster the economy. Using cavalry centric forces to make the enemy sally is the most efficient means of grabbing up settlements. Do not build anything till you have a strong economy, sacking is tempting to grab a cash boost but makes others dislike you. This does not matter if your faction is isolated, on the other hand it can be dangerous if you are surrounded by potential enemies


  11. #11

    Default Re: New recruit reporting for duty

    I took the debt away from ere, as i found it quite ahistorical as the empire was in a very good place under manuel

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