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Thread: BC 2.3.2 my experince

  1. #21
    Qarluq o'g'lan's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    Nein,

    btw CAE - Clouds across europe mod and it had europe and parts of asia.

  2. #22
    Princeps
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    there are alot of turk horse archer mercs available in afghanistan... a max of 5 at any one time. They are also lightly armored, although if you want a horse archer unit for the sole purpose of spewing out arrows nothing beats them for the sheer amount of ammo they carry.
    Mongol armies in BC are made up of light and medium horse archers, the elite khans lancers and a mixture of light and medium foot archer hybrids. Sometimes they have siege engines too... do you have the kingdoms version of BC or the older v2.02? I have a save for 2.02 where the mongols have just turned up, there are 4-5 stacks of georgians on bridge chokepoints... and the challenge is to try and wipe the mongols out or cause as much damage as possible.
    The kypchaks can build alot of light HA and maybe some medium ones too, I forget. I would not personally recommend them to play as, I think they are quite boring.


  3. #23
    Ansar Warrior's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    Quote Originally Posted by Qarluq o'g'lan View Post
    nein,

    Thanks for explaining. I will have another try. mod seems unique. Only reason i chose Khwarezm is: i thought it will give me a lot of HA, so i could use Subutai's tactics (that he used against much bigger russian army, poles and hungarians) to use it against mongols themselves. To my surprise khwarezm had only persian archers. So i had to hire mercenary kypchak HAs. and they being week, subutais tactic didn't work. one more thing do kypchak khanate create HA or they have only mercenary HA too?

    mamertin: Fortunately this is an easy fix, and that is coming from a guy that knows nothing about modding.

    well, congrats.

    and thanks. i will try as you suggested. . but what should i do for jihad? attack muslim faction or just wait for it (and how many turns)? and in case of ayyubids, do they create HAs?

    I don't know what tactic you were trying but it sounds like using HA against the Mongols? If that's what you did that's a sure fire way to get buried.
    The Mongol armies are always huge and are the best at those HA style tactics, you'd have to use a full stack HA army just to stand a chance and even then it's precarious if they have heavy cavalry.

    Like it was in reality fighting a Mongol army on the field is almost always lose lose, best tactic is to draw them into a siege then plug the gates with anti cavalry footsoldiers like spearmen and heavy units to cut down their horses, the building also gives you some cover from their arrows as opposed to out in the open.

  4. #24
    garudamon11's Avatar Pili Posterior
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    This mod can be anything but "not challenging"
    Its excessively challenging IMO, I love this mod but its just too hard

  5. #25
    Ansar Warrior's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    It's not that hard ..... well saying that I do use the AOR Mod but that's for fun purposes.

    Admittedly I did find 2.3.2 takes a little adjusting to as the beginning is pretty tough going when trying to build money.

    I still think all the BC's are a cut above any other mod I've played or any Total War game but yes if it's too difficult it can become a chore but the flip side is without struggle (or at least some) you don't any sense of achievement for lack of a better word when you come out on top.

  6. #26
    Munifex
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    I just use Armenian Mercenary Horse Archers and outshoot them, it's wonderful, Armenian mercs are well armored, strong in melee, have good missile attack and range, and move fast with good stamina/morale.

  7. #27
    Qarluq o'g'lan's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    Ansar check this out, mongol tactics against them while having less army than them. battle in open field










  8. #28
    Qarluq o'g'lan's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    Ansar, i uploaded pics (proving that mongols can be beaten by their own tactics) to my flickr. here is the link http://www.flickr.com/photos/92078020@N05/

    I saved this custom battle, but i don't know how to find that saved file. if you teach me how to do, i will send you that file, so you can see what strategy i am talking about and why i am obsessed with HAs.

    Nein, and others, thanks for explaining thoroughly. Now i understood what was my main problem. i wasn't familiar with BC and building and upkeep costs being high in the beginning and siege eqp being useless probably driven me nuts. from yr posts i understood, i gotta be patient with aforementioned. thank y'all.

    I gotta admit that i am totally caveman when it comes to editing. if someone can please guide me how to decrease upkeep cost a little bit and add a lil more strengths to archers, and editing what files, i would be very grateful.

  9. #29
    Qarluq o'g'lan's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    I just beat mongols in 2 more custom battles still being less in numbers. Here is what i did: i move infantry and lancers all the way back close to red line, keeping 2 units of HA close to opponent army. Then started battle and attacked with 2 units of HA, they circle and shoot mongol heavy cavalry from flank. As my main army being to far, mongols sent their HAs. when mongol HAs approached i attacked with my lancers from both flanks. Mongols seing that send their heavy cavalry to my main army and unit of infantry to my HAs. So i achieved my goal separating his units. as mongol cavalry approached my infantry leaving a big gap between their Cav and Inf. i withdrew my Cav unit and sent to the back of mong inf. a unit of mongol cav attacked my cav fighting with mongol HAs while 2 unites of mongol cav attacked my 3 unit inf and, i was able to move unit of my inf behind mongol cav. unit of my HAs were shooting mongol cav that attacked my cav, while unit of my HAs withdrew unit of mongol heavy infantry too far by shooting and retreating. due to big gap, i caught mongol foot archers with the unit of my cav that i sent behind mongols. next is slaying and me loosing all my inf while mongols still had reduced units of cav and inf. i still had full stack of HAs and my reduced in numbers cav and they were close to each other. so i started retreating gathering this four unit together and mongol cavs started chasing. this is what i needed. i separated 2 units of cav from HAs managed to get behind the chasing mongol cav. and attacked from front and back. when last mongol cav came as a reinforcement i did same. rest of the battle i hunted down his separated from each other inf and slayed.

    This is how i use HAs. i need them to separate opponets units and HAs being fast i retreat and attack and eliminate opponents units one by one.

  10. #30
    duce13's Avatar Kabe difendā
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    What works in a custom battle will not necessarily work in a campaign. Mongols have incredibly strong generals and full stack armies. It's really hard in open when you're attacked by a cavalry horde like this. And the infantry is strong too! I had a huge empire playing as Kwarezm with healthy economy and couple armies when they attacked. I tried to defend on river crossings and cities yet they crushed me. 10 turns from attack and I lost 5 cities or so and had no army to defend rest of my lands. That's what I call challenge
    Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition...

  11. #31
    Qarluq o'g'lan's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    duce13, you feel me about challenge. indeed that's what i call challenge: fighting huge armies with small ones, while i see no challenge in struggling to maintain economy. man i love what you wrote, you are the man. I had only one city left when i was playing as a france, fighting romans and milan on east, england on the north and spain and portugal on southwest. even i lost in general, i was still happy as i managed to win most of the field battles with army smaller than opponents'.

    BC being my 2nd TW campaign as i started playing TW a month ago, i don't really understand much, like difference between custom battle and campaign battle. Do you mean by strong generals number of stars they have next to their picture?

  12. #32
    Princeps
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    command stars give a number of bonuses to your troops, I am uncertain what these are exactly but the main advantage is that it makes your army much harder to rout. Considering that most mongol troops already have excellent morale, and the difficulty of killing generals in BC, this usually means a fight to the death aka the enemy is unroutable no matter how much you slaughter them. Even if the general dies I have seen mongol armies fight until only a few percent remain. The general also has other bonuses next to his ancillaries... some of these add morale too


  13. #33
    Ansar Warrior's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    Quote Originally Posted by Qarluq o'g'lan View Post
    Ansar, i uploaded pics (proving that mongols can be beaten by their own tactics) to my flickr. here is the link http://www.flickr.com/photos/92078020@N05/

    I saved this custom battle, but i don't know how to find that saved file. if you teach me how to do, i will send you that file, so you can see what strategy i am talking about and why i am obsessed with HAs.

    Nein, and others, thanks for explaining thoroughly. Now i understood what was my main problem. i wasn't familiar with BC and building and upkeep costs being high in the beginning and siege eqp being useless probably driven me nuts. from yr posts i understood, i gotta be patient with aforementioned. thank y'all.

    I gotta admit that i am totally caveman when it comes to editing. if someone can please guide me how to decrease upkeep cost a little bit and add a lil more strengths to archers, and editing what files, i would be very grateful.
    Those armies are tiny, have you tried it with full stack armies on Custom battle, just add a zero (0) or two to your money and you can afford anything you want.

    Give the Mongols a mixture of Heavy HA's and normal HA's and have the stack full and see if you can beat them the same way.

  14. #34
    Mamertine's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansar Warrior View Post
    Sure Mamertime, admittedly the way the game is it's not always appropriate as you don't always know what your facing hence it's hard to prepare for but the Ottomans trying to control a mutiny from the Begs under their rule and the Persians having constant threats from Turkic HA raids, Parthians and Scythians prepared as such so I just copied the tactic.

    Front row of Spear men is fine but if you have the money I would definitely go for Heavy Infantry preferably with either spear, pole arm or axe as they can hold off enemy infantry, take a charge and hack down horses easily.

    Second & Third row - Archers (enough to match the HA's)

    I always double line formation with the archers so they fit behind my front line protected and I usually station an infantry unit on either side just behind the front line sticking out of the square formation so if cavalry try to sweep in behind to get the archers you have a mobile flank unit that can deal with it without having to use a front line unit breaking the formation.

    ------------ (Spear or Heavy Infantry)
    - (Flank unit) -
    ------------ (Archers)
    ------------ (Archers)

    This basically answered my questions as to why the Persians and the first trained Jannisaries were archery focussed, the Immortals for example with their standard equipment being Bow & arrow, Shield and spear were perfectly equipped to form the sort of formation I mentioned above.

    One tip would be to increase the quiver size to 30 in the EDU.

    If you go onto Custom battle and give the enemy as many Horse archers as you want and try that formation it's not failed me yet even against a full stack.
    Do you have issues with your archers hitting that back of your infantry with this? I honestly haven't tried firing archers that weren't in front since vanilla.

    If so, how far away are is the enemy unit when you cease fire, assuming you are on flat land and not a hill?

  15. #35
    Mamertine's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    Quote Originally Posted by Qarluq o'g'lan View Post
    nein,

    Thanks for explaining. I will have another try. mod seems unique. Only reason i chose Khwarezm is: i thought it will give me a lot of HA, so i could use Subutai's tactics (that he used against much bigger russian army, poles and hungarians) to use it against mongols themselves. To my surprise khwarezm had only persian archers. So i had to hire mercenary kypchak HAs. and they being week, subutais tactic didn't work. one more thing do kypchak khanate create HA or they have only mercenary HA too?

    mamertin: Fortunately this is an easy fix, and that is coming from a guy that knows nothing about modding.

    well, congrats.

    and thanks. i will try as you suggested. . but what should i do for jihad? attack muslim faction or just wait for it (and how many turns)? and in case of ayyubids, do they create HAs?

    If you are a Christian faction, yes attack Muslims factions. But more importantly, hold cities that were contested. If you are the KoJ, hold Jerusalem and try to get Damascus, Gaza, and eventually Cairo. If you are Rome, hold Constantinople and you will eventually get a jihad and a Crusade.

    It varies on when, but I have always had one called before the Mongols show up.

    And yes the Ayyubids get HAs. In fact, they have a pretty good variety considering they are not HA dependent.

    For Crusades, Rome will get one for Constantinople around 1204 (Fourth Crusade) and the Ayyubids will get one called on them (or any Muslim/Pagan faction) that starts taking KoJ cities,specifically Jerusalem.

  16. #36
    Qarluq o'g'lan's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    Nein, thanks man. I will def pay attention to the stars by now.

    Ansar, i tried to increase army size in that custom battle, but i couldn't add 0 to increase that 10000 dinaris (or dinars). or which money? i didn't really understand what you trying to say. anyways never mind as i am not trying to be showoff but was trying to see if what i know will work in the game, to some extent learn from you guys.

    After you guys claiming mongols are tough challenge i reinstalled BC and started as Khwarezmian again, i am getting one back up castle in those shores of Caspian sea (if i won't be able to beat mongols in my mainland). I am in year 1200, today i will attack Ghurids and keep myself busy with ghurids then gaznavids, until mongols show up. I guess it will be around 1219 (38 more turns).

    Mamertine, i sent my khwarezmian diplomat to scout KoJ areas and indeed it looks like KoJ is surrounded by enemies than rebels. As soon as i am done with mongols, i'll start a campaign with KoJ as it sounds more challenge in long run. in case of Romans, you said i will fight against jihad and against crusade, right? man that sounds even more interesting, fighting muslim factions and christian factions at the same time. man that's gonna be crazy, i love it. if so, that gonna be my 3rd campaign.

    you guys are an awesome community. i was expecting to get more ignorant responses, but all of you guys explaning mongols, KoJ and Romans made me love this mod. man let me get my *** back to my campaign and smoke those ghurids lol

  17. #37
    Princeps
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    mongols are a tough challenge in BC because they get many stacks of troops whilst you can only field a few... and kwarezm is a hard faction too on top of that. Many of their generals have 10 stars including other bonuses in their personal description thingy. I only tried to destroy them as georgia because one of their archer units can plant stakes... making things less painful.

    you can get a free alliance from the ghurids at the start, before you sack any rebels (sacking causes negative politcial crap making it harder to gain trade rights/alliances... both of which are much harder to gain in bc). After that blitzkrieg as many rebel regions as you can before the mongs turn up. Sally forcing is the best way, use a force of cavalry much stronger than the rebel cavalry but small enough to make the rebels confident to sally with their mixed force of infantry and cavalry. Pin and destroy their cavalry in a corner of the map, then wipe out the infantry leftovers. This is hard with khwarezm as they have some nasty rebel garrisons that can often only be defeated through attrition


  18. #38
    garudamon11's Avatar Pili Posterior
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansar Warrior View Post
    It's not that hard ..... well saying that I do use the AOR Mod but that's for fun purposes.

    Admittedly I did find 2.3.2 takes a little adjusting to as the beginning is pretty tough going when trying to build money.

    I still think all the BC's are a cut above any other mod I've played or any Total War game but yes if it's too difficult it can become a chore but the flip side is without struggle (or at least some) you don't any sense of achievement for lack of a better word when you come out on top.
    I always play as Oman in this mod and I always quit for the same reasons. I never have money even if I conquer as far as Somal, the Ghurids invade my Persia with endless hordes of men as I struggle to keep 1 stack army ready to stop them with my horrible financial situation, and what seals it is Abbasid invasion which is practically unstoppable... and if I do manage to actually survive these or not encounter them, the Roman empire would already holds 3/4 of the map

  19. #39
    Ansar Warrior's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    Quote Originally Posted by Qarluq o'g'lan View Post
    Nein, thanks man. I will def pay attention to the stars by now.

    Ansar, i tried to increase army size in that custom battle, but i couldn't add 0 to increase that 10000 dinaris (or dinars). or which money? i didn't really understand what you trying to say. anyways never mind as i am not trying to be showoff but was trying to see if what i know will work in the game, to some extent learn from you guys.
    Lol were sharing/ testing battle tactics no one here's a show off, when you get to the second or third page of the Custom battle screen before you start picking the army units there is a section in the top left corner which show's how much money will be allocated to each team, click on the money (the zero's) and press 0 once or twice it should (will) add zero's to you money, I do it all the time.

  20. #40
    Ansar Warrior's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: BC 2.3.2 my experince

    Quote Originally Posted by garudamon11 View Post
    I always play as Oman in this mod and I always quit for the same reasons. I never have money even if I conquer as far as Somal, the Ghurids invade my Persia with endless hordes of men as I struggle to keep 1 stack army ready to stop them with my horrible financial situation, and what seals it is Abbasid invasion which is practically unstoppable... and if I do manage to actually survive these or not encounter them, the Roman empire would already holds 3/4 of the map
    Interesting, I played as Oman and I conquered the entire map admittedly that was on 2.02 but it only makes a slight difference in how you set up, what is your main issue is it money or winning battles?

    Money - is the same for every faction, you need to focus on buildings that give you finances so docks, markets anything that increases trade, or production etc.
    Do you manually control your build tree or do you let the CPU do it on auto? I never do the auto, I manually do it.

    If it's trouble with battles I'm your man for advice on that because not only did I manage it, I'm historically very well versed in what the Arabic nations strengths are in battle even though there's not many, the Rashidun Caliphate tactics work very well and once I had money for better armour and units I was practically unstoppable.

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