Page 38 of 182 FirstFirst ... 132829303132333435363738394041424344454647486388138 ... LastLast
Results 741 to 760 of 3626

Thread: Tolkien General Discussion II

  1. #741
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    10,687

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    @ conon'
    The day you write "I <3 Gandalf " I will know we have alien imposters among us! ^^


    @ Feanaro'
    `We have not decided our course,' said Aragorn. 'Beyond Lothlórien I do not know what Gandalf intended to do. Indeed I do not think that even he had any clear purpose.'
    - FotR; Farewell to Lórien

    Kingdom of Lindon preview video out





    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory

  2. #742
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    16,794

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    The day you write "I <3 Gandalf " I will know we have alien imposters among us! ^^
    I don't know what you mean - it will all be easier Ngugi after you sleep next to this pretty flower...
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  3. #743

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    I don't know what you mean - it will all be easier Ngugi after you sleep next to this pretty flower...
    very funny

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Shu Win View Post
    Could anyone tell me what happened to the hobbits that lived along the upper Anduin?
    can we here about this. i would be very interested to know.
    Last edited by Ngugi; February 06, 2013 at 08:08 PM.

  4. #744

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Fairly sure the Anduin Hobbits displaced as War approached, if you're speaking of the late Third Age.

  5. #745
    Valandur's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,552

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by RuleBritannia View Post
    Fairly sure the Anduin Hobbits displaced as War approached, if you're speaking of the late Third Age.
    Yeh, according to the Appendices the Nazgul were searching that region for the Ring and found it abandoned by the Hobbits who had lived there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michele Bachmann View Post
    They would be incorrect. The only path to happiness is through Christ.

  6. #746
    smoesville's Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    2,803

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Afaik they fled the darkening of Mirkwood and finally crossed the Misty Mountains and joined the other groups of hobbits. It was a group of Stoors that remained the longest from which Gollum descended.
    Were there but a tree in this godforsaken place i would have hanged myself.

  7. #747
    Bowmaster's Avatar Biarchus
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Where do ya think!?
    Posts
    635

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    But Frodo's choice to leave the fellowship alone remains amazingly stupid...
    You certainly didn't read about Boromir...

    He bullied the meeting at Elrond's with the help of Galdor (*) and than again at the Last debate with a plan that amounted to I am just going to throw you all at the wall and see what sticks, most of you will die, but my gut tells me this will work...
    What should they have done then?

    Really this has got to be one of the weakest points in the the debate. So Elrond has several lords who can openly face the Nine. They have Gandalf. They have Nazgul Killing swords. They have Aragron and how many rangers? S has no power base in the area. None of there scouts/messengers were molested and the one attack they face is rather small when they go East. It seems to me with Gandalf, Glorfindel, the twins, and what 50, maybe 100 rangers and dozens of Noldor are a force Sauron really had no way to stop from taking the ring West and simply boarding a elf ship and sailing to parts unknown to be tossed into the sea [a rather hostile element to Morgoth and S].
    Yeah, but The Ring still exists, meaning Sauron will also exist. It had to be destroyed. In the end, after all would be conquered, Sauron would simply look for The Ring from the Sea (with the help of the Corsairs, I think) for maybe days, weeks, months, years, tens of years... whatever, he's a Maia, he's got an eternity of time until judgement day. He will find The Ring.

    Oh and about Sauron having no foothold in Eriador... Misty Mountains, and especially Moria, Gundabad, Isengard. He could also march forces from Mirkwood through Moria all the way to Rivendell. The Elves might be a trouble, but if he'd really try, it'd be a cakewalk.
    (yeah, yeah, I'm fin player of TATW 3.2...

    In Memoriam: Blackomur89

    Save MERP and TATW!

  8. #748
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ducatus Saxonia
    Posts
    1,335

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post

    Really this has got to be one of the weakest points in the the debate. So Elrond has several lords who can openly face the Nine. They have Gandalf. They have Nazgul Killing swords. They have Aragron and how many rangers? S has no power base in the area. None of there scouts/messengers were molested and the one attack they face is rather small when they go East. It seems to me with Gandalf, Glorfindel, the twins, and what 50, maybe 100 rangers and dozens of Noldor are a force Sauron really had no way to stop from taking the ring West and simply boarding a elf ship and sailing to parts unknown to be tossed into the sea [a rather hostile element to Morgoth and S].
    I agree that Sauron couldn't have mustered any force in Eriador to oppose such a force. But at the end of the day, Middle-earth would've been overrun by his forces, Ring or no Ring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bowmaster View Post
    Oh and about Sauron having no foothold in Eriador... Misty Mountains, and especially Moria, Gundabad, Isengard. He could also march forces from Mirkwood through Moria all the way to Rivendell. The Elves might be a trouble, but if he'd really try, it'd be a cakewalk.
    It's not certain whether Sauron had any control over Moria, for me it doesn't really seem that way (Lórien was attacked from Dol Guldur three times. An attack from Moria is not mentioned). Gundabad and the Ered Mithrin certainly are way beyond his reach. And really, Isengard? "Hey S-Man, wanna catch that Ring of mine? Some buggers are running off westwards, go and get'em!"
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  9. #749

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Thangaror View Post
    I agree that Sauron couldn't have mustered any force in Eriador to oppose such a force. But at the end of the day, Middle-earth would've been overrun by his forces, Ring or no Ring.
    About 160 total men could've invaded and taken over Mordor? Again, the 100 Rangers would be useless, at least against the Nine, so you're left with maybe 60 men. There was no feasible way of victory, even if Sauron didn't have the Ring: 60 men against 600,000 Orcs, trolls, etc., the Nine Nazgul, Witch-King included, and thousands of Easterlings or Haradrim? Not a chance. Frodo was a little more vital to the cause.

    Though I will disagree on the Moria part. It's said in the text that the Elves fortified their northern borders in this time to guard against attacks from Moria. However, the northenr Orc lands were more bitter to the Northern peoples, like the Dwarves, and Sauron didn't bring them down, but instead wanted to attack the West on several fronts, not just at the mid-Anduin.
    Last edited by RuleBritannia; February 07, 2013 at 10:21 AM.

  10. #750
    Bowmaster's Avatar Biarchus
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Where do ya think!?
    Posts
    635

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Thangaror View Post
    But at the end of the day, Middle-earth would've been overrun by his forces, Ring or no Ring.
    True. Peace, man.

    It's not certain whether Sauron had any control over Moria, for me it doesn't really seem that way (Lórien was attacked from Dol Guldur three times. An attack from Moria is not mentioned). Gundabad and the Ered Mithrin certainly are way beyond his reach. And really, Isengard? "Hey S-Man, wanna catch that Ring of mine? Some buggers are running off westwards, go and get'em!"
    Just guess where Sauron got all his Orcs and Trolls. Sure, he did breed some of them, but who did that job? I think you know the answer. Also Isengard would have destroyed the group for sure and take The Ring if Sauron happened to mention it. Sure, Saruman would keep it for himself, but then all he'd need to do is send the Wraiths. Ta daa! the conquest of Middle-Earth is suddenly a cakewalk!
    (yeah, yeah, I'm fin player of TATW 3.2...

    In Memoriam: Blackomur89

    Save MERP and TATW!

  11. #751
    Aikanár's Avatar no vaseline
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sanctuary
    Posts
    12,516
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    *sigs*
    Last edited by Aikanár; February 07, 2013 at 02:49 PM.


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal, Sheridan, Bercor and HigoChumbo, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  12. #752
    Gallus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    4,765

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    they could've taken the Ring to Valinor...

  13. #753
    Praeses
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    8,355

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    It'd never make through customs man, those elf-dudes on Tol Eressea have no effing sense of humour man, they strip search you and you can't nothing into the place, no pipeweed, no rings (oh yeah sure you can take in elf-rings, no problem man, whats up with that?) and the questions "Have you ever been a ring bearer? Are you related to a Maia? Do you intend to intend to petition Manwe on your arrival? Are you allergic to gem dust?" And they have such a double standard, I saw this one elf (a Sindar too, not even a Noldo) with a freaking dwarf in his luggage (everyone could smell him man, it was a joke after they took my two ounces of Old Toby) and they just waved him through.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  14. #754
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    10,687

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    @ Gallus
    They did not belived it would be accepted there;
    `But Gandalf has revealed to us that we cannot destroy it by any craft that we here possess,' said Elrond. `And they who dwell beyond the Sea would not receive it: for good or ill it belongs to Middle-earth; it is for us who still dwell here to deal with it.'
    - FotR; The Council of Elrond
    I guess conon' would call it lies, something I clearly disagree upon. I am convinced Elrond belives what he say, and thus it at worst would be a statment that was wrong, not a lie, but considering Valinor's politic I think we can conclude he was perfectly right (on which I won't oppose conon' in critiqe hehe)

    Kingdom of Lindon preview video out





    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory

  15. #755

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Yeah. Quite sure no one wants another corruption downfall like what happened to Númenor and Sauron's subsequently directed attack on the Valar. Even the Elves of Middle Earth who were charged with securing the Ring and had dealt with it before wanted it out of their hands as quickly as possible. In my opinion, I don't know if Elrond truly believed Frodo would accomplish his goal. I think above all else, he just wanted the Ring, and subsequently the targeting of Sauron's forces, on another group.

  16. #756
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    10,687

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Naa, Valar did not fear Sauron, if he tried anything they would stomped him into the ground and he knows it; he never forgot his masters fall. Morgoth was a Vala, had armies of dragons, had Balrogs, other Maiar, uncountable Orcs and also Men but was still utterly defeated - Sauron is not a fool.
    Instead he thought that Eru, and thus the Valar, did not care for ME any more (or in Manwë's case was allowed to operate in ME) since Númenors fall, and that it therefore was his for the taking. Sauron never expressed any interest to try to get to Aman, which he by all accounts couldn't get any forces to anyway since Aman was removed from the world and put into a "paralell dimension" (my choice of words), and he knew that Eru's wrath would be awoken if he tried.
    If the Ring was taken to Aman Sauron would lived on and ruled ME, while if he feared it to be destroyed he would have to use cunning to get it back, not might.

    Kingdom of Lindon preview video out





    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory

  17. #757

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    I wouldn't say Sauron was totally ignoring the Valar, nor did they not have any fear at all of him. Remember, the main reason Morgoth failed was because he "bit off more than he could chew". He spread his power too thin and himself weakened, Sauron believed more of collecting allies, not just stamping everyone into the ground. Plus, Númenor had been extremely powerful too compared to Sauron's then-ragged army, yet Sauron alone brought about their downfall. The Vala were very powerful, yeah, but don't underestimate the Dark Lords' power, both Sauron and Morgoth; even though Morgoth was defeated, it had taken more or less the entire combined strength of all of his enemies to do so. Sauron believed he could, eventually, obtain the same power as Morgoth, but not make the same mistakes.

  18. #758

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Really? Sauron would have no chance against the forces of valinor, how could orcs and men contend wirlth the valar and their host? Bear in mind that sauron had already been bested in personnal combat several times aswell. His aim was conquest of middle earth, he feared the valar hence he fled after morgoths defeat, even when eonwe told he could surrender but only to the valar.

  19. #759

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Curufin View Post
    Really? Sauron would have no chance against the forces of valinor, how could orcs and men contend wirlth the valar and their host? Bear in mind that sauron had already been bested in personnal combat several times aswell. His aim was conquest of middle earth, he feared the valar hence he fled after morgoths defeat, even when eonwe told he could surrender but only to the valar.
    But if Sauron could gain the same power as his master, that was his goal, above all else, after conquering Middle Earth. Of course he feared the Valar, anyone would have, because his strength wasn't anywhere near that of Morgoth's. If anything, though, he would've ended up not using his actual force until he could create strife among the Vala just like he had in Numenor. I don't think he'd succeed, but of course he'd try, at some point along the road. Sauron was immensely powerful, but not powerful enough to physically fight the Vala, who indeed had bested him. But this is all post-Third Age speculation based around if Sauron had won, so it's not easy to make these kinds of guesses.

  20. #760
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    3,106

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    What would Sauron's height be? Tolkien called him ''Tall but not Gigantic".Would that be in comparison to Morgoth or a tall, say Man?
    It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.
    Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •