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Thread: Tolkien General Discussion II

  1. #3061
    Thangaror's Avatar Princeps Prior
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    To my knowledge the publications of the Grimm's were even made less grim (pun intended) than the oral stories they were based on, and still there're birds picking out peoples eyes, family members tring to kill each other etc.
    In a world were life for most was harsh, were poverty, starvation, sex and death was everyday, the modern idea of protecting the child from reality seems not desired, and perhaps the intention even is the opposit. Life is hard, and the point with the stories lie highly on the moral and insights they can provide [correct or not, what we deem or know].
    I think here Tolkien are more akin to that older tradition, also more intended to tell a fairytale than a kids tale, and in the same manner as say Mac's fellow kinsman HC Andersen, just read The Little Mermaid or The Little Match Girl, it's harth breaking stories (the former even when with a kind of "good" ending).
    Lastly, the Hobbit was released intended for an audience from 8th to early teenage, so while for kids, still not for the smallest kind.
    The tales collected and published by the Brothers Grimm never really were supposed to be "children's good night stories". In a way they are the continuation of the old sagas and myths. And neither the old Norse, nor the Greek mythology is particularly nice. Somewhere in my parents house there's a book that tales some quite gruesome folk stories from Sweden.
    However, "back in the days" children were different and 16 year-old boys went to war and fought in the trenches. Nowadays, kids are put into a cocoon and some parents would like to drive their car INTO the school to drop their kids off (We walked every day! barefeet through the snow! And it went uphill, both ways!).

    With regard to the Hobbit, I remember it was once featured as an audio book in the radio when I was a kid. The Orcs did really scare me.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

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  2. #3062
    Flinn's Avatar A Modern Man of Old
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    a question for ye scholars

    do we know anything for sure about the character and temper of Gil-Galad?

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  3. #3063
    Macilrille's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    You think you had it hard Thangaror...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

  4. #3064
    Flinn's Avatar A Modern Man of Old
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    a question for ye scholars

    do we know anything for sure about the character and temper of Gil-Galad?
    bump

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  5. #3065
    Ngugi's Avatar The Ferrit
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    bump
    Short answer: beside he was named wise (though perhaps deemed second to Elrond), we have indirectly information only: friendly towards Men, brave and apperently polite.

    Think our only direct insight in his personality and conduct is from his letter to Mendlur, king of Númenor, handed over by Aldarion, son of the king and friend of Gil-galad, in 883 Second Age:
    Quote Originally Posted by UT: Aldarion and Erendis
    When Aldarion left the chamber, Meneldur looked at the letter that his son had given him, wondering; for he saw that it came from King Gil-galad in Lindon. It was sealed and bore his device of white stars upon a blue rondure. Upon the outer fold was written:

    Given at Mithlond to the hand of the Lord Aldarion King's Heir of Númenórë, to be delivered to the High King at Armenelos in person.

    Then Meneldur broke the seal and read:

    Ereinion Gil-galad son of Fingon to Tar-Meneldur of the line of Eärendil, greeting: the Valar keep you and may no shadow fall upon the Isle of Kings. Long I have owed you thanks, for you have so many times sent to me your son Anardil Aldarion: the greatest Elf-friend that now is among Men, as I deem. At this time I ask your pardon, if I have detained him overlong in my service; for I had great need of the knowledge of Men and their tongues which he alone possesses. He has dared many perils to bring me counsel. Of my need he will speak to you; yet he does not guess how great it is, being young and full of hope. Therefore I write this for the eyes of the King of Númenórë only.

    A new shadow arises in the East. It is no tyranny of evil Men, as your son believes; but a servant of Morgoth is stirring, and evil things wake again. Each year it gains in strength, for most Men are ripe to its purpose. Not far off is the day, I judge, when it will become too great for the Eldar unaided to withstand. Therefore, whenever I behold a tall ship of the Kings of Men, my heart is eased. And now I make bold to seek your help. If you have any strength of Men to spare, lend it to me, I beg.

    Your son will report to you, if you will, all our reasons. But in fine it is his counsel (and that is ever wise) that when assault comes, as it surely will, we should seek to hold the Westlands, where still the Eldar dwell, and Men of your race, whose hearts are not yet darkened. At the least we must defend Eriador about the long rivers west of the mountains that we name Hithaeglir: our chief defence. But in that mountain-wall there is a great gap southward in the land of Calenardhon; and by that way inroad from the East must come. Already enmity creeps along the coast towards it. It could be defended and assault hindered, did we hold some seat of power upon the nearer shore.

    So the Lord Aldarion long has seen. At Vinylondë by the mouth of Gwathló he has long laboured to establish such haven, secure against sea and land; but his mighty works have been in vain. He has great knowledge in such matters, for he has learned much of Círdan, and he understands better than any the needs of your great ships. But he has never had men enough; whereas Círdan has no wrights or masons to spare.
    The King will know his own needs; but if he will listen with favour to the Lord Aldarion, and support him as he may, then hope will be greater in the world. The memories of the First Age are dim, and all things in Middle-earth grow colder. Let not the ancient friendship of Eldar and Dunedain wane also.

    Behold! The darkness that is to come is filled with hatred for us, but it hates you no less. The Great Sea will not be too wide for its wings, if it is suffered to come to full growth.

    Manwë keep you under the One, and send fair wind to your sails.
    Last edited by Ngugi; February 23, 2015 at 06:54 AM.

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  6. #3066
    Flinn's Avatar A Modern Man of Old
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    ahh mommy as usual you proved to be the Master here

    so one can guess that he was a balanced, polite, brave and wise ruler, just like all his sires in the line of Fingolfin

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  7. #3067
    Thangaror's Avatar Princeps Prior
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Macilrille View Post
    You think you had it hard Thangaror...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo
    Oh bummer!
    How could I dare and stand up to Monty Python.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

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