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Thread: Tolkien General Discussion II

  1. #3121
    Matamelcan's Avatar Foedaratus
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Thanks! I'm not a fan... I'm a fanatic.
    And Gandalf is in fact an Istari(Or a mair I'm a bit rusty), not an hobbit.
    Yes, Tolkien Gateway is the best. I used to spend hours on their just reading all the lore... I need to reread the Silmarilion.

  2. #3122
    Flinn's Avatar In Dude We Trust
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    when I wrote this

    Gandalf said that he was of a race akin
    I actually meant Smeagol with "he"

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  3. #3123
    Matamelcan's Avatar Foedaratus
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Oh, my bad!
    It'd be interesting to do battle in Beleriend.

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  5. #3125
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Hehe, that's funny. Some lines are hilarious.

    "Fëanor was the mightiest and most talented of the elves, and also their biggest ."

    "Fountains are delightful, not metal."

    Haha, kinda true, it depends on what kind of fountain it is. A fountain of blood ist quite metal, according to the definition of metal used in this text.


    I'd still say that Túrin deserves a better ranking. He is one of the biggest badasses in the legendarium, and biggest , second to Fëanor only. Plus he's so sullen, grim and dark. And killing yourself out of shame and self-hatred is really heavy metal.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

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  6. #3126

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Yeah, Turin is one of the most Metal guys in Middle-Earth
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  7. #3127
    Tiro
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    hello everyone I have a few questions
    1 eat elves meat?
    2 do elves love war?
    greetings atthias
    would you like to see a lord of the rings mod vote in the link below so that we can hope for a middle earth map
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  8. #3128

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by atthias View Post
    hello everyone I have a few questions
    1 eat elves meat?
    2 do elves love war?
    greetings atthias
    1 - Yes. There are several instances when Elves are mentioned as eating meat in The Hobbit and LotR (the books, not the movie interpretation). They may also wear fur, when appropriate.
    2 - No. While there are several descriptions of Elves getting really angry to the point of freaking out their nearby enemies, I can't think of a single example - except Feanor, perhaps - of an Elf who really loves battle, let alone war. In Tolkien's mind, the warlike disposition was a characteristic trait of "middle men" (such as the Rohirrim) or people who didn't follow the Valar and the teachings of the Elves (e.g. Haradrim). And orcs, of course.

  9. #3129
    Flinn's Avatar In Dude We Trust
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    2 - No. While there are several descriptions of Elves getting really angry to the point of freaking out their nearby enemies, I can't think of a single example - except Feanor, perhaps - of an Elf who really loves battle, let alone war. In Tolkien's mind, the warlike disposition was a characteristic trait of "middle men" (such as the Rohirrim) or people who didn't follow the Valar and the teachings of the Elves (e.g. Haradrim). And orcs, of course.
    although overall I concur with this, there are some examples of Elves who "loved" to be part in wars; for instance, both Mablung and Beleg demanded leave to Thingol to take part in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad even if the King prohibited to any of his people to participate in it.
    Furthermore, many Noldor were more than eager to assail Morgot (they were driven by desire for vengeange ok, but none the less they had no hesitation in following their leaders in war, instead, for instance, of trying a different approach of conciliation with the Valar).
    The concept of "loving war" is clearly wide and can be interpreted in many ways, but I guess that 3 ages spent at war should mean something. Out of my memory I can recall that only Silvans (Nandor for the most) were openly disliking war, while others might have accepted it as a "necessary evil", but I can't say honestly that it is so evident that Elves disliked the war. (I guess an approach similar to that of Faramir was the most common even amongst them, at least for Noldor and Sindar).

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  10. #3130
    alreadyded's Avatar Work up a #6 on 'em!
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    I believe many Elves eventually came to love war that were originally "above" it. Avari Elves were little better than Men, the Mirkwood Elves were a step above that so some of them may have liked it from the start, both were a far cry from the High Elves that came from Valinor.

    The feasting people were Wood-elves, of course. These are not wicked folk. If they have a fault it is distrust of strangers. Though their magic was strong, even in those days they were wary. They differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise. For most of them (together with their scattered relations in the hills and mountains) were descended from the ancient tribes that never went to Faerie in the West. There the Light-elves and the Deep-elves and the Sea-elves went and lived for ages, and grew fairer and wiser and more learned, and invented their magic and their cunning craft in the making of beautiful and marvelous things, before some came back into the Wide World.

    Here is a quote that relates overall;

    Yet now, if the Rohirrim are grown in some ways more like to us, enhanced in arts and gentleness, we too have become more like to them, and can scarce claim any longer the title High. We are become Middle Men, of the Twilight, but with memory of other things. For as the Rohirrim do, we now love war and valour as things good in themselves, both a sport and an end; and though we still hold that a warrior should have more skills and knowledge than only the craft of weapons and slaying, we esteem a warrior, nonetheless, above men of other crafts. Such is the need of our days. -Faramir
    It is a good bet that some of the High Elves adapted to Middle-Earth as the Numenoreans did and became a product of their hostile environment. The Galadhrim, Mirkwood, and Avari Elves (Avari made up most of the population of Elves in Middle-Earth) didn't have much choice but to fight from the beginning, and eventually warriors were needed more than scholars. By the time of the events in the books the Galadhrim are already killing anyone that trespasses on their lands and Men have a great distrust of all Elves. So basically everyone is selfish, which is how Sauron wanted it. It is important to remember that Middle-Earth is not becoming a better place, but a worse and more hostile one as time goes by. After the Ring was destroyed I would imagine the Elves became a rustic and elusive people in the wide empty forests and were much less warlike.
    Last edited by alreadyded; August 06, 2015 at 06:07 PM.
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  11. #3131
    Tiro
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by alreadyded View Post
    I believe many Elves eventually came to love war that were originally "above" it. Avari Elves were little better than Men, the Mirkwood Elves were a step above that so some of them may have liked it from the start, both were a far cry from the High Elves that came from Valinor.




    Here is a quote that relates overall;



    It is a good bet that some of the High Elves adapted to Middle-Earth as the Numenoreans did and became a product of their hostile environment. The Galadhrim, Mirkwood, and Avari Elves (Avari made up most of the population of Elves in Middle-Earth) didn't have much choice but to fight from the beginning, and eventually warriors were needed more than scholars. By the time of the events in the books the Galadhrim are already killing anyone that trespasses on their lands and Men have a great distrust of all Elves. So basically everyone is selfish, which is how Sauron wanted it. It is important to remember that Middle-Earth is not becoming a better place, but a worse and more hostile one as time goes by. After the Ring was destroyed I would imagine the Elves became a rustic and elusive people in the wide empty forests and were much less warlike.
    thanks to everbody for the answers but I have a few more questions
    when frodo was stabbed by the whitch-king upon amon sul frodo tried to stab back whit his sword from the barrows why do it not harm the whitch-king I ask this because the sword of merry [who was also from the barrows] dit harm the wich-king?
    ad I remember that somewhere of the dwaves is said in the tempering of steel the dwarves were never outmatched even by the noldor and upon another place it is said the jewel- smiths of ost-in-edhil surpased in cunning al that have ever wrought save only feanor himself is that a contradict? I am sorry but I cannot provide quotes here but any way I hope you can understand me
    sorry for my bad english
    and many thanks in advance to those who will answer me
    greetings atthias
    Last edited by atthias; August 09, 2015 at 10:23 AM.
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  12. #3132

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by atthias View Post
    thanks to everbody for the answers but I have a few more questions
    when frodo was stabbed by the whitch-king upon amon sul frodo tried to stab back whit his sword from the barrows why do it not harm the whitch-king I ask this because the sword of merry [who was also from the barrows] dit harm the wich-king?
    Because Merry actually struck the Witch-king, while Frodo missed, just cutting the cloak.

  13. #3133
    Tiro
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Because Merry actually struck the Witch-king, while Frodo missed, just cutting the cloak.
    thanks that explains it
    I hope that you not wil grew weary of my questions but here is another
    And from that evening onward the Nazgűl came and followed every move of the army. They still flew high and out of sight of all save Legolas, and yet their presence could be felt, as a deepening of shadow and a dimming of the sun; and though the Ringwraiths did not yet stoop low upon their foes and were silent, uttering no cry, the dread of them could not be shaken off.him in the air
    why can only legolas see the nazgul and not elledan and elrohir because all of them were elves? and yes I know that elledan and elrohir were not full elves.
    greetings atthias

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  14. #3134

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Unknown. If you wish to discount the Mannish heritage of the twins, then, perhaps, Legolas had particularly keen sight, even for an Elf. There are, if I recall correctly, a couple of passages that could be taken to imply this.

  15. #3135
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Nah, Tolkien probably just forgot about them. Also they're minor characters and at no point the story is told from their perspective.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

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  16. #3136

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by atthias View Post
    ad I remember that somewhere of the dwaves is said in the tempering of steel the dwarves were never outmatched even by the noldor and upon another place it is said the jewel- smiths of ost-in-edhil surpased in cunning al that have ever wrought save only feanor himself is that a contradict?
    Well, one quote refers to steel and the other most likely to gems and perhaps precious metals. Not necessarily a contradiction.


    Quote Originally Posted by atthias View Post
    And from that evening onward the Nazgűl came and followed every move of the army. They still flew high and out of sight of all save Legolas, and yet their presence could be felt, as a deepening of shadow and a dimming of the sun; and though the Ringwraiths did not yet stoop low upon their foes and were silent, uttering no cry, the dread of them could not be shaken off.him in the air
    why can only legolas see the nazgul and not elledan and elrohir because all of them were elves? and yes I know that elledan and elrohir were not full elves.
    greetings atthias
    There's another passage like this, referring to the Army of the Dead. I think Thangaror is right and those are simply slip-ups that can happen, eve to an author as meticulous and thorough as Tolkien was. Otherwise, it'd need some complicated justification that'd not be very plausible.
    Last edited by athanaric; August 09, 2015 at 02:59 PM.

  17. #3137
    Tiro
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    I thanks everybody for the answers
    greetings atthias
    would you like to see a lord of the rings mod vote in the link below so that we can hope for a middle earth map
    https://www.change.org/p/total-war-a...ign-map-editor
    and here is the link to the team that is trying to made a lord of the rings mod http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...ordor-(TW-RoM)

  18. #3138
    Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    There's another passage like this, referring to the Army of the Dead. I think Thangaror is right and those are simply slip-ups that can happen, eve to an author as meticulous and thorough as Tolkien was. Otherwise, it'd need some complicated justification that'd not be very plausible.
    He has simply a better Eyesight than them?I mean that can happen.



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  19. #3139

    Default Re: Tolkien General Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Sint View Post
    He has simply a better Eyesight than them?I mean that can happen.
    Perhaps. But even so, the Army of the Dead passage I mentioned says that "Legolas of the Elves" alone wasn't afraid of them. Pretty sure that one is an oversight.

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