British fault in King David Hotel's Bombing

[Bruriya]

http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac10.htm ...After exiting the hotel, Gidon summoned two women fighters who were waiting nearby, and ordered them to carry out their mission. They ran over to a nearby telephone booth, and delivered the following message to the hotel telephone operator and to the editorial office of the Palestine Post:
I am speaking on behalf of the Hebrew underground.
We have placed an explosive device in the hotel.
Evacuate it at once - you have been warned.
They also delivered a telephone warning to the French Consulate, adjacent to the hotel, to open their windows to prevent blast damage. The telephone messages were intended to prevent casualties...

At first, the Mandatory government denied having received a telephone warning, but testimony submitted to the interrogating judge made it clear beyond a doubt that such a warning had in fact been given. Moreover, the Palestine Post telephone operator attested on oath to the police that, immediately after receiving the telephone message, she had telephoned the duty officer at the police station. The French Consulate staff opened their windows as they had been told to by the anonymous woman who telephoned them, and this was further evidence of the warning.

In the majority of the non-Jewish sources about this business Irgun's prevention isn't mentioned or denied. That is:
1 . The majority of non Jews prefer the anti-Jewish version, despite proofs of the return.
2 . The "brave" British authorities still didn't admit the share guilt, and regularly lay that "there was no prevention". Any of the British employees wasn't punished neither for prevention ignoring, nor for lie.
3 . Anti-Semites and simply non-knowing people like to reproach Zionists for terrorism, based on ONE this case, and "forgetting" that usually "Irgun" and Shtern Grupp at all didn't demaged to the British civilians, BUT VICE VERSA tried not to harm to them (though British were Hitler's accomplices, the Romanian, Hungarian and other fascists's accomplices in the Holocaust )

[Blaze86420]

What about the Aryans?

[Bruriya]

What about the Aryans?

At you is what to answer, except silly jokes?
How you think why despite well documentary prevention, the majority of the non-Jewish sources hide or deny it?

[Markas]

The British were clearly at fault for not giving out bomb-proof armor.

[Watercress]

(though British were Hitler's accomplices, the Romanian, Hungarian and other fascists's accomplices in the Holocaust )

Lolwut.

[Manco]

People placing bombs aren't responsible for bombings anymore...
Have you heard of the term double-think?

And as for the British being Hitler's accomplices, how 'bout you open a single book about WWII.

[Wulfburk]

(though British were Hitler's accomplices, the Romanian, Hungarian and other fascists's accomplices in the Holocaust )

?

[nce_wht_guy]

This just in, 9/11 was America's fault...

[removeduser_487563287433]

Blaming the victims of a terrorist bombing is cowardly and repugnant. Nationalism at its most disgusting.

[ronm100]

Blaming the victims of a terrorist bombing is cowardly and repugnant. Nationalism at its most disgusting.

The Etzel called the hotel some time before the bombing, telling them there is a bomb in the building and the should evacuate so yeah, they brits are to blame to.
The Israekis didnt want to harm anyone, they just wanted do destroy an importent british HQ.

[Markas]

The Etzel called the hotel some time before the bombing, telling them there is a bomb in the building and the should evacuate so yeah, they brits are to blame to.
The Israekis didnt want to harm anyone, they just wanted do destroy an importent british HQ.

Except of course there had been numerous hoaxes and a bomb search already carried out. Even had the building been evacuated, deaths would still have occurred in the adjacent buildings.

If you plant a bomb with the intention of detonating it you are directly responsible for any casualties. So yes, The Irgun are responsible for the deaths of 91 people.

[Dr. Croccer]

The Etzel called the hotel some time before the bombing, telling them there is a bomb in the building and the should evacuate so yeah, they brits are to blame to.
The Israekis didnt want to harm anyone, they just wanted do destroy an importent british HQ.

If they didn't want to harm anybody they shouldn't have been bombing hotels.

The warning didn't arrive at the hotel until 15 minutes before the bombs went off, they barely had enough time to discover the milk churns and verify the claim, let alone evacuate the entire building in time.

Irgun chose going through with their plan over the lives of innocents. They were terrorists by any definition of the word.

[ronm100]

Except of course there had been numerous hoaxes and a bomb search already carried out. Even had the building been evacuated, deaths would still have occurred in the adjacent buildings.

If you plant a bomb with the intention of detonating it you are directly responsible for any casualties. So yes, The Irgun are responsible for the deaths of 91 people.

well, if you follow that logic I have no more to say to you because I think your logic is wrong, if I place a mine, and the whole world knows where that mine is yet a person steps on it am I completly to be blamed?

If they didn't want to harm anybody they shouldn't have been bombing hotels.

The warning didn't arrive at the hotel until 15 minutes before the bombs went off, they barely had enough time to discover the milk churns and verify the claim, let alone evacuate the entire building in time.

Irgun chose going through with their plan over the lives of innocents. They were terrorists by any definition of the word.

1. it was 25 minutes.
2.the french consulate was warned and they heeded the warning and opened the windows so they wouldnt shatter.
3. The british Chief Secretary of the palestinian madate stated: "I give the Orders here(and not the terrorrists)" and that anyone who will leave this building will lose his job(this is a translation from Hebrew wiki because this qoute is not present in English wiki).
4.I admit that the Etzel should have given them more time but again, 25 minutes is enough time to get out of a building.

[Markas]

well, if you follow that logic I have no more to say to you because I think your logic is wrong, if I place a mine, and the whole world knows where that mine is yet a person steps on it am I completly to be blamed?

Quite how you managed to inform the world is beyond me. A more accurate comparison would be that you had repeatedly made bogus claims before, that very day in fact. If you place a mine for no constructive reason and someone is killed by it then yes, you are to blame. Legally, morally, logically. No amount of mental gymnastics can back flip you out of that.

4.I admit that the Etzel should have given them more time but again, 25 minutes is enough time to get out of a building.

Evacuating the building would not have stopped casualties due to the small explosion set off outside that caused people to gather near the Hotel columns near to the bomb in the basement. As people were also killed in neighboring buildings, nothing less than evacuation the entire street would have helped. Given the number of hoax bomb scares that would have been unworkable.

[Dr. Croccer]

1. it was 25 minutes.

No, the first call was at 12:22, the explosion happened at 12:37. That's 15 minutes. Just because Irgun claims it was 25 minutes afterwards doesn't make it so, they also claimed that the British intentionally kept civilians in the hotel so they could demonize the Jews (and apparantly all the British military personnel in the hotel agreed to this suicidal conspiracy theory)

2.the french consulate was warned and they heeded the warning and opened the windows so they wouldnt shatter.

Not that I even believe this to be true, but how is this relevant?

3. The british Chief Secretary of the palestinian madate stated: "I give the Orders here(and not the terrorrists)" and that anyone who will leave this building will lose his job (this is a translation from Hebrew wiki because this qoute is not present in English wiki).

So most likely it's a fabrication by some nationalist Israeli and not relevant.

4.I admit that the Etzel should have given them more time but again, 25 minutes is enough time to get out of a building.

1. it was 15 minutes
2. they called the service desk, i.e. the people working at the hotel, not anyone in the British military. The receptionist passed it on to the hotel manager, who proceeded to search the hotel. By the time anyone in any position of power knew what was going on it was already too late.

[nemgod]

well, if you follow that logic I have no more to say to you because I think your logic is wrong, if I place a mine, and the whole world knows where that mine is yet a person steps on it am I completly to be blamed?

Yes since you had not reason to lay the mine in the first place, just like the terrorists had no valid reason to plant the bomb. Defending Irgun for their activities during this era basically is almost like people in todays time being able to defend Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah.

[ronm100]

Quite how you managed to inform the world is beyond me. A more accurate comparison would be that you had repeatedly made bogus claims before, that very day in fact. If you place a mine for no constructive reason and someone is killed by it then yes, you are to blame. Legally, morally, logically. No amount of mental gymnastics can back flip you out of that.



Evacuating the building would not have stopped casualties due to the small explosion set off outside that caused people to gather near the Hotel columns near to the bomb in the basement. As people were also killed in neighboring buildings, nothing less than evacuation the entire street would have helped. Given the number of hoax bomb scares that would have been unworkable.

ofcourse I am to blame, but if the man knew about the mine abd he knew what a mine is and he still steps on it he is to blame as well since he could avoid this death, even if I made bogus claims before.
are you serious?? ofcourse evacuating would reduce casualities, the further you are from a bomb then it is less likely for yo to be hurt

No, the first call was at 12:22, the explosion happened at 12:37. That's 15 minutes. Just because Irgun claims it was 25 minutes afterwards doesn't make it so, they also claimed that the British intentionally kept civilians in the hotel so they could demonize the Jews (and apparantly all the British military personnel in the hotel agreed to this suicidal conspiracy theory)
and if the brits claim that it was 15 minutes it does make it so???
I dont say that the Irgun are innocent, but deaths could be avoided becuase most of the people who died were in the building and could get out

Not that I even believe this to be true, but how is this relevant?
its relevant because if the french heeded the warning then the brits could as well
So most likely it's a fabrication by some nationalist Israeli and not relevant.
maby, and maby the english wikipedia didnt enclude this quote for the same reasons


1. it was 15 minutes
2. they called the service desk, i.e. the people working at the hotel, not anyone in the British military. The receptionist passed it on to the hotel manager, who proceeded to search the hotel. By the time anyone in any position of power knew what was going on it was already too late.
Please, do you seriously belive that the hotel workers didnt inform the millitary?? and even if they didnt its not the Irgun's fault

[Dr. Croccer]

and if the brits claim that it was 15 minutes it does make it so???

If you'd bothered to actually read it then you would've noticed how it mentioned that the estimates were done by an American historian.

So there goes that argument.

And yeah, I'd trust members of a professional military subject to the laws of a liberal democratic government over ideological terrorists anyday, especially when those terrorists made claims which are entirely nonsensical.

I dont say that the Irgun are innocent, but deaths could be avoided becuase most of the people who died were in the building and could get out

Which wasn't possible, as I explained. If they truly cared about the lives of innocents then they wouldn't have decided to bomb the place at all.

its relevant because if the french heeded the warning then the brits could as well

Do you seriously believe that closing a few windows and evacuating an entire hotel take the same amount of time?

maby, and maby the english wikipedia didnt enclude this quote for the same reasons

Israelis have more reason to be biased over this because the people involved helped found their nation and are glorified for it, whilst most Brits don't even know this incident happened. That, and the English version of Wikipedia is subjected to more control and supervision.

Please, do you seriously belive that the hotel workers didnt inform the millitary??

Do you seriously believe that they did? And that the soldiers... did nothing and waited for their deaths and ordered everyone to stay put at gunpoint for no reason at all? How deluded do you have to be to accept this tripe?

and even if they didnt its not the Irgun's fault

It's not Irgun's fault that the bomb they placed in a hotel exploded and killed people in the hotel?

By your logic I can point a gun at you and tell you that you have 3 seconds to run and that it isn't my fault when you get shot because you didn't run fast enough.

[Manco]

ofcourse I am to blame, but if the man knew about the mine abd he knew what a mine is and he still steps on it he is to blame as well since he could avoid this death, even if I made bogus claims before.

Except to make the analogy work, you didn't warn the man stepping on the mine, but a random shopkeeper who happens to be near the approximate location of the mine. Who then still had to go to the local cops to warn them, who then needed time to get reinforcements in order cordon off the area and clear the area. of course by that time someone already stepped on it and a few dozen passerby's were also killed.

are you serious?? ofcourse evacuating would reduce casualities, the further you are from a bomb then it is less likely for yo to be hurt

reduce =/= avoid completely. The bomber'd still be a murdering scumbag terrorist, just a slightly less mass-murdering one.

There is simply no possible way to exonerate the bombers. Perhaps you can fault some people in authority for not reacting as fast as theorethically possible, but that does not in any way lessen the blame placed upon the bombers.

[Trey]

From wiki, but it still says a lot:

In July 2006, the Menachem Begin Heritage Center organized a conference to mark the 60th anniversary of the bombing. The conference was attended by past and future Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former members of Irgun.[31] A plaque commemorating the bombing was unveiled, stating "For reasons known only to the British, the hotel was not evacuated.” The British Ambassador in Tel Aviv and the Consul-General in Jerusalem protested, saying "We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated," and wrote to the Mayor of Jerusalem that such an act of terror could not be honoured, even if it was preceded by a warning. The British government also demanded the removal of the plaque, saying that the statement accusing the British of failing to evacuate the hotel was untrue and "did not absolve those who planted the bomb."[31][32]

To prevent a diplomatic incident, and over the objections of Knesset member Reuven Rivlin (Likud), who raised the matter in the Knesset, changes were made in the plaque's text, though to a greater degree in the English than the Hebrew version. The final English version says, "Warning phone calls has [sic] been made to the hotel, The Palestine Post and the French Consulate, urging the hotel's occupants to leave immediately. The hotel was not evacuated and after 25 minutes the bombs exploded. To the Irgun's regret, 92 persons were killed." The death toll given includes Avraham Abramovitz, the Irgun member who was shot during the attack and died later from his wounds, but only the Hebrew version of the sign makes that clear.[6]

It is absurd to even attempt to absolve Irgun of the deaths. Come out and say you support terrorism as a means to effect political change, or don't. Don't put the blame on the victims. Though I understand that perceived need to contort the argument given similar parallels to developments today. After all, I'm sure that you don't blame Palestinian terror groups when they warn of impending attacks, do you?