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Thread: Faction Strengths/Weaknesses for GG2's 2.3 EDU

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    Default Faction Strengths/Weaknesses for GG2's 2.3 EDU

    As of right now I have nearly completed assigning new combat-related stats to all the units in BC 2.3; I now turn my attention to cost and unit numbers. These numbers will not only be assigned based on unit equipment, quality, and training, but on the particular strengths and weaknesses of each faction, including underlying population and manpower factors. My hope is that these will combine to create a balanced gameplay experience.

    I do not possess in-depth knowledge on the subject, so I am putting it to you guys: what should the characteristics of each faction be with regard to these factors?

    Eastern Roman Empire

    Infantry - Solid manpower for levy and elite professional melee infantry units. High manpower for relatively low-tier, well-armored professional troops.
    Cavalry - Solid manpower for melee cavalry of all levels; good manpower for well-armored, professional medium cavalry.
    Missiles - Low manpower for all missile units (historical reliance on mercenaries)

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    Default Re: Faction Strengths/Weaknesses for GG2's 2.3 EDU

    Good project.. I did something similar for SSMAP submod of SS. Interested in your opinions as lately we have made so many more roster changes I might redo some of this (500 changes is quite a bit amount and including merc files and recruitment as well). I used RC/RR by PB as the base though its not perfect it is pretty good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichon View Post
    So I think I am nearing the final stages of formula than can be used to make the EDU more balanced between factions and fair cost increases through the eras related to unit quality and quantity.

    Explanation of unit quality and type;
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    All units are at least .4 so that those that are local and levy (almost all peasants) have still .1 x unit numbers.

    Superior, Elite, Exceptional are usually written under the dictionary or category description;

    dictionary Feudal_Knights ; Feudal Knights
    category cavalry ; elite mounted melee, early lance/sword

    Many of the descriptions only contain 1 letter- f, u, m, etc... so you have to read carefully. If you like it is easier to spell it out and save for the next person. Sometimes there is nothing in either description or dictionary about the type, so then consult pressdat or ask me, PB, or K/T though sometimes in RC there is no clear answer so we have to think of the history. Many times if there is nothing noted then assume the units are Average unless there is something about them that seems either very good or that they might be militia.

    Pavise Spearmen for example are militia but they are also early pro due to equipment and drill(training in game mental stats which makes them more resistant to rear charge or death of general)

    There is no category 'peasant militia' the closest would probably be local levy (basically locals conscripted for emergency defense). If they are a levied militia it means they have some very basic training and maybe some weapons not well maintained given them but usually they have low mental stats and the trained mental stat which helps offset minor shocks but they will still flee pretty easily.

    So the various Quality levels are-

    Exceptional (bodyguards, a few famous units, etc)
    Elite (most often high roster troops, high class units, many late pros due to training are elite)
    Superior (better than average for their era but not elite- all knights and pros are a minimum of 'superior' except Luchniki and a couple others- personally I think knights and pros should all be at least superior)
    Average (just what it says, probably about 1/3 of EDU is Average)
    Levy (no training or minimal training, cheap emergency units)
    Mercenary (usually a bit better than average unless they are locals simply due to experience and survival of the fittest, can be elite and sometimes legendary/exceptional like Swiss or Catalans/Varagnians- if on a faction roster treat them as Urban Late Pro- basically add 1 to cost but retain the 1 turn to train instead of 4 turns for late pro as they are hired already trained- if the unit is available only as mercenaries hired in the field just add 3 and the / 3 / 2 for upkeep)

    There are also unit types that are not necessarily tied directly to quantity but can indicate a minimum like early and late pro.

    Urban (raised in an urban area so expect higher wages and often have better equipment than otherwise)
    Rural (often have worse equipment but more likely to have stamina stats and due to distance cost more to gather for muster)
    Local (close but not within city or travel, trade, ally within the region frequently so Pechenegs, Chudes, many AOR units are locals, usually a bit less stats but cheaper than roster units)
    Feudal (men in vassalage to a lord or in a knights retinue so squires/sergeants/knights/bodyguards/huscarls, usually high mental stats but low availability and equipment covers a broad range, cheaper than many other units as part of the service is due by oath and class)
    Missile (there are missile specialty units and some units which just open the battle throwing a small handful of weapons, the ones with small amount usually add little to cost of a unit since they can reuse or make their own missiles, dedicated archers are more expensive due cost of replacing arrows/bolts/gunpowder and the training/experience of the men)
    Early Professionals (men who are active or more active than most Feudal or Local warriors and often provide their services for longer campaigns but aren't full fledged mercenaries nor fully maintained by a state, most religious orders would be ep and often Sergeants or Men at Arms- it is possible to be both Feudal and Early Pro)
    Late Professionals (men whose sole task is to fight, standing armies that are paid to fight with no other obligations such as managing land, equipped by their employer and usually trained as well, they have greater availability than any other units and typically higher skills as they are professionals)
    Knight (not necessarily a quality on its own but a type/class, knights even if serving as dismounted low armor infantry due to class received higher pay and also figure most have a horse just not using it so they don't have that extra cost)

    Cavalry are treated specially as they are the most expensive combat arm other than artillery.

    Light cavalry ride smaller, often higher stamina, and fleet of foot animals- they are lightly armed and armored and can often be locals or early feudals as well as mercenaries. Sometimes militia that could afford a horse. Often horse archers or missile cavalry. Light cavalry role in battle is to distract, harass, and pursue the enemy. Extremely vulnerable to missiles.

    Medium cavalry can ride large ponies up to Arabians and usually are normal speed receiving neither penalty nor bonus to speed. Some medium cavalry receive stamina traits if they ride fine horses. Medium cavalry can fulfill any role on the battlefield at the cost of lower armor. Often heavy enough to beat light cavalry in melee and fast enough to chase them down medium cavalry can be heavy enough for a shock charge but won't last long in melee but are better than light cavalry fighting infantry. Missiles can take a toll on medium cavalry in many situations.

    Heavy cavalry ride warhorses and usually have a 2nd horse for when not in battle and often a 2nd man to help maintain the gear and horses of the heavy cavalryman. Expensive to maintain and equip but can play a decisive role in battles. The man and as eras progressed, the horse are well armored at the cost of speed and heat penalties which causes them to exhaust quickly, the highest mass cavalry means they have an advantage in melee with everything other than elephants or other heavy cavalry. However due to slower speed and exhaustion sometimes medium cavalry used well can beat them though the medium cavalry is still bound to suffer large losses. Often suffer light losses to even heavy missiles and later eras are nearly invulnerable to missiles except bows fired at close range or guns.

    Artillery and special units like Naffatuns or Siphonatores are the most expensive man for man of the crew due to logistics of building and maintaining the units and the cost of the supplies as well as the special skills of the men(usually some math and can read/write).


    The numbers;

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    All units have a base of .4
    Every increase of 1 in armor adds .1 (Every armor upgrade counts as half so 4 armor upgrades adds .2 to armor- even though armor upgrade adds 2.5 often its better quality metal that is lighter but sometimes it is upgrade to heavier armor but to figure each upgrade is simply too complicated and on balance this is fair since it costs before the unit actually receives its upgrade but still reflects the total benefit of unit upgrades somewhat, many units with only 1 upgrade pay nothing extra etc)

    Stamina add .1 per level, hardy +.1 very_hardy +.2

    Superior, Elite, Exceptional add .3 each
    Rural add .2
    Militia add .2
    Urban add .3
    Missile if 8 or more ammo add .6, if less than 8 ammo add .3
    Knight add .4 (after 1300 New Era Event, Knights no longer get the -.3 Feudal offset)
    Early Pro add .4
    Late Pro add .8
    Light Cav (defined as armor 0-6) add 1
    Medium Cav (defined as armor 7-12) add 1.5
    Heavy Cav (defined as armor 13 and above) add 2

    Mercenary figure the current value for quality (1.5 or whatever)then multiply by 3 then unit size and finally the normal 10, 25, etc.
    Unless its mercenary in faction roster then count as Early Pro if in Era 0 and Late Pro in Era 1 and 2.

    Siege add 10 (mostly wood but lots of nails and special skills of the crew to construct and maintain)
    Cannon add 15 (bronze was expensive as well as the foundry to make them and the men who could build them)

    Feudal -.3 (part of their pay is the land they manage and they are usually less availability and numbers than later pros with widely varying equipment they provide themselves, anything from latest steel sword to inherited century old maille)
    Local -.2
    Levy -.1 (even if they have 0 wages these are men who would most likely normally be working in a field or a shop paying taxes so there is still a cost)

    Once all that is added up;

    Multiply ( x ) the number of men in unit then;
    Infantry x 10
    Cavalry x 25
    Special (siphanatores, naffatun x 100)
    Siege x 10
    Cannon x 10

    Fleets each stat of attack and defense is worth .1 + .4 base x crew x 15

    Mercenary fleets have the high upkeep of mercenary / 3 so upkeep is not encouraging to make fleets of mercenary ships to benefit from the low upkeep. Mercenary fleets did not work on retainer or pay their crews lower while sitting in port.

    Primarily rowed while in battle 1 turn to build(longboat, galley, etc), sail ships +1, guns +1, fireship +1. Lanternas (row & guns) would take 2 turns to build. Fireship 2 turns. Carrack (sail & guns) 2 turns, Gun Holk 2 turns, Cog 2 turns, Galleasses 3 turns, etc. Only the Grande Carrack takes more then 3 turns (4). Mercenaries always take 1 turn to recruit.

    If mod is using higher or lower income based on settlement mechanics/trade resource values the multiplier can be raised or lowered as long as the proportions remain the same it will work. So Infantry could be x 5 and Cavalry x 12.5 for example.

    Upkeep;

    Divide the cost to recruit figured above by 2
    Religious Order recruitment cost is same as their upkeep cost- Religious Order who are also Mercs (Crusader Knights, etc) figure as normal Mercenary but divide final number by 5.
    Mercenary available in the field(not roster mercs) for upkeep divide by 8 (equals roughly 16 turns for high upfront cost to be recouped by lower upkeep making mercenaries cheaper than standing army only if they don't fight and have to be retrained/recruited less than every 16 turns approximately).

    Heat;
    Heat equals armor value used for recruitment cost so if a unit has 10 primary armor and 3 armor upgrades then the heat value is 11. (only time to round down) Plate Armor due to less layers and better weight distribution gets 1/3 discount. So Gothic Plate is 15 gets -5. Figure separately from horse armor as Gothic Knight has 25 armor total the heat value is 17. -5 man -3 horse.

    Armor upgrade cost is = to upkeep cost (it is expensive to give new armor to every man in the unit but its only armor, not all weapons, horses, etc)

    Custom battle cost is upkeep cost (round down to nearest 100 so points aren't wasted)

    As for OP-

    ERE even in this era had relatively strong infantry but that is relative to those around which were primarily specialized as cavalry. ERE consequently had good cavalry to compete but it was expensive. As time went by and theme fell apart and the provincial families gained power at the expense of central government local and feudal type relationships became more important militarily. The many hill and mountains regions of Anatolia preserved some sources of good infantry but cavalry became more important. I am not sure of BC team approach to historical changes- IE keep the best roster or show decline even if player or AI steers a faction into dominant position.

    Anyway-

    Infantry- low tiers not very reliable, unprofessional militias with frequently corrupt commanders pocketing money instead of spending it on equipment. Middle tiers solid and available in numbers but expensive. High tiers few and often foreigners (English, Rus, Germans, Armenians).
    Cavalry- numerous AOR and mercenaries lower and mid tier. High tier strong but very expensive and small numbers.
    Missiles- numerous low tier local levies, decent amount of mid tier professionals though most are hybrid cavalrymen/archers, few and mostly merc high tier archer.
    Last edited by Ichon; December 26, 2012 at 01:10 AM.

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