How much land did Cyrus conquer?

[Rijul.J.Ballal]

How much land did Cyrus conquer in sq.km? I ask because i heard that Cyrus conquered a little more territory than Alexander conquered.And also i heard that Cyrus had some sway over the land above Armenia and Georgia[i don't know the spelling] is this true?

Note i refer only to the land they conquered not land which was inherited.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Cyrus personally conquered Armenia and his general Harpagus conquered the Colchis (Georgia). Cyrus also conquered territories in Arabia (Teyma, Saudi Arabia close to Jordan and Oman, Bahrain and Gerrha which is the Eastern coast of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates). Cyrus conquered about 90% of Iran and inherited the other 10% (Fars province), he conquered the Babylonian Empire and Lydia while his general Harpagus conquered the rest of Anatolia. Cyrus also conquered all the central Asian countries and died in a campaign in Kazakhstan. He also conquered the North Western corner of Pakistan into the Indus.

[Rijul.J.Ballal]

Yes but was it more than Alexander? and also where did you hear of his conquests of the eastern coast of Saudi Arabia? i have never heard of that before. Can any one recommend a good source for in-depth info on the Persians?

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Alexander essentially added Greece and the vast Indus area to the Persian Empire, so how did Cyrus conquer more? Plus Alexander had control of Egypt and Cyrus did not. Alexander didn't have control over Arabia, Armenia or Georgia so that much is true. Although the Achaemenids never conquered Yemen or the Red Sea part of Arabia. Or even the interior of Arabia since that is pretty much worthless and nothing happens in there.

[Rijul.J.Ballal]

Yes but Alexander did not conquer Greece he simply consolidated it... and he did not conqure all of the persian empire. Persian empire=8 million sq km, Alexanders=5 million sq km

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Oh so you want to know how much land Alexander himself conquered? compared to Cyrus.

[Rijul.J.Ballal]

Yes, and a good source for details about his conquests.

[conon394]

Yes but Alexander did not conquer Greece he simply consolidated it...

That is a bit iffy - Alexander had to reestablish control over quite a bit of what he nominally inherited - if you push hard enough the same questions could be asked about a of of what Cyrus conquered vs what was only technical paper capitulation or claim.

[NRohirrim]

And also i heard that Cyrus had some sway over the land above Armenia and Georgia[i don't know the spelling]

Good spelling ;-) Both Cyrus and Alexander had Armenia. But none of them conquered for good todays Georgia (but son of Cyrus, Cambyses - made it).


Differences between lands of Cyrus and Alexander:

More Cyrus:
- East Sogdiana
- some part of nowadays Jordania - east from Dead Sea
- Sinope, whole Cappadocia (Alex. most part but not whole), part of western Pontus
- half of today Azerbaiyjan
- lands of Dahae (today central Turkmenistan) and close tu Oxos River (Amu-Daria) to southern coastline of Aral Lake (someone said about even Kazachstan but that's not quite true - once again, his son - Cambyses)
- todays Kuvait
- gained some influences in Gerrha, probably north-eastern coastline of Saudi Arabia (near Persian Gulf)

More Alexander:
- Macedonia of course
- Thessalia
- Tracia
- Mysia (land in Asia Minor close to Phrygia)
- Egypt
- whole parts of western and northern Indus Valley (Cyrus just part of these parts)
- Cyprus


P.S. Tomorrow I'll input map with borders of Empires one guy and another.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Cyrus died in Kazakhstan. Cyrus also had Cyprus taken from Egypt.

[NRohirrim]

Here's nice map about Cyrus'es conquests (click to enlarge):

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

The map is wrong:
1. Cambyses II conquered Cyrene, later on Darius (not himself but one of his generals) had to reconquer Cyrene
2. During the civil war in Egypt Cyrus had taken control of cyprus
3. Those areas of Arabia were conquered by Cyrus from Babylonia, hence why those Arabs showed up for service in the Egyptian campaign of Cambyses
4. Susa was part of the Babylonian Empire so instead of undated it should say 539
5. Sinop, Trapezus and Colchis were conquered under Cyrus by Harpagus, no doubt Darius had to send a general there to restore order in those lands when he took over but Harpagus conquered that and not Darius
6. Saka haumavarga (conquered by Cyrus) should be where Saka Tigraukhuda is
7. Saka Tigraukhuda should be where it says Dahae/ conquered by Darius
8. Dahae should be above the Saka Tigraukhuda near the area that the Dahae are on the map
9. Where it says Saka Haumavarga it should say Ma Sagetae (no relation to Alexander era city Massaga), the Massageta were never conquered
10. Cyrus (or anyone) did not take the land across the Syr Darya where it says Kyropolis as this land has modern day tashkent which was an important area for the tribes in that day. No doubt that would be where the Massagetae have their major settlement of some sort and Cyrus died before he could take it. Therefore the northern most border is the Syr Darya and NOTHING above that.

11. This not on the Map but the Persians had a system of vassalage for the Arabs on the West coast (Kingdom of Gerrha), same as they did with the East Arabs.

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

In my eyes it is really difficult to decide how much a Conquest is worth. Alexander did some really good sieges in his first years, but allways after his Victories specially after Gaugamela the most Provinces and Cities seeked peace. It should be also remembered that Persia isn't a realm of cities with close settlement. Conquering Greek city after city could be much more difficult We have also to remember that Kyros started as a local ruler from Persis. He didn't had a professional army trained over years of war like Alexander.

[NRohirrim]

We have also to remember that Kyros started as a local ruler from Persis.

And wasn't Alexander the Great at the beginning also a local ruler (from Macedonia)?

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

And wasn't Alexander the Great at the beginning also a local ruler (from Macedonia)?

No actually he didn't. His father trained an army for a decade and gained control as Hegemon about Greek, had Alliances with Epiros, Illyria and Thracia. Alexander inherited an Kingdome and an Army with great ambitions. Kyros started as a local ruler with people who were in large parts nomadic and with really less structures.

[Rijul.J.Ballal]

^ many tend to over look this, do they not?

[The Despondent Mind]

No actually he didn't. His father trained an army for a decade and gained control as Hegemon about Greek, had Alliances with Epiros, Illyria and Thracia. Alexander inherited an Kingdome and an Army with great ambitions. Kyros started as a local ruler with people who were in large parts nomadic and with really less structures.

Alexander pretty much got the best army , best commanders and one of the most powerful kingdoms in the western world , when got on the throne .

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

^That
Cyrus just got Fars and had to subjugate many of the independent minded tribes. Cyrus did inherit a well trained guard from his father which probably became the Immortals. His father apparently unified the Persian tribes and fought in wars for the Medes in which Herodotus or Xenophon says that Cambyses' tactics and strategy were to surprise, to move fast and too attack an enemy at disadvantage but also too place importance on solid infantry and massed cavalry charges (different than Assyria as Assyrians did not like to charge), although neither Xenophon nor Herodotus mention any battles or campaigns. If you look at Cyrus' campaigns it sort of seems he got this strategy and tactics from his father but Cyrus may have taken it to the next level by going farther distances and larger battles (he marched across the northern mountains in the winter to attack Croesus and defeated Croesus before Babylon and Egypt could put their full support behind Croesus). No doubt the wars that Cambyses fought must have been in his unification of Fars and wars against Urartu and Babylon by the Medes (according to some sources Astyages fought Abel Merodach and it seems that Astyages took Urartu from Babylon and there might have been fighting in Susa and Arrapha, apparently the war began when the Medes invaded Urartu and the Babylonians attempted to make a lightning attack on Ecbatana but were stopped in their tracks by Cyrus. As to whether there was Harpagus, Cambyses or Astyages in this battle it does not say, but Xenophon makes it seem to us like Cyrus did this on his own while everyone else was in another theatre of war and for this Cyrus won the favour of Astyages. Xenophon says that this was the first battle that Cyrus was in or even commanded troops.