IB2 BRITANNIAE III DOWNLOAD AND DISCUSSION

[FFJean]

By the way, please let me say that I do not disagree (my God, if I start to agree, where is the debate!) with the fact that upkeep (for some armies types, especially professional) should be high. What I tried to point out is that (i) not all units were professional armies, and even if they were, they were differences in nature between the 3 types of "professional armies" (in fact, there was nothing like real professional armies from the fall of the WRE - and thus the disappearance of the Comitatenses - and the 13th-14th centuries in continental Europe except for Free Cities like in Italy, but mainly feudal armies), namely the (a) Comitatenses, real professional regular armies, (b) the Mercenaries / Barbarian units brought into Roman service (that could sometimes indeed transform into quasi regular armies but created serious threats, as you mention it, and as I tried to mention it in my much too long post) and (c) the start of the feudal armies, that is a group around a leader.

Of course, types (a) and (b) did evolved into (c). But I think that regarding recruitment time, recruitment and upkeep costs, it would be great if those 3 types were different and identified, as it would (IMHO) create more categorised armies, that would partly go along with the different culture paths.

All the best,

FFJean

[benczeb90]

He who disagrees completely and dismisses the questioning, rejects to continue the debate, probably tries to hide either his lack of knowledge to answer, or the fact that the questioner happened to step on his balls. But he who disagrees wholeheartedly whilst allows the debating to take its course, including himself trying to enlighten the others, while taking the others' arguments and opinions into account totally unselfishly, having the will to change his initial statements, is probably a wise, worthy and reliable man. I think you two are the latter, so it's great news guys
I'm not sure why i've written this, but these were my afterword thoughts about the last two days, including this forum talk and some politics.

[FFJean]

Dear Benczeb90,

You are no doubt a well of wisdom ;-) Seriously, I am very grateful to all about these discussions! And I have to agree, all is about being unselfish!

All the best,

FFJean

[FFJean]

And if we look at the last great Emperor, Julian himself, and not this Constantine that some call the great ;-), he had both regular (Comitatenses) units, feudal types units (Barbarian units) and Limitanei. For me, the main difference between a true regular unit and a feudal one is that the regular unit exists outside of its chief as a unit (Legio x with its own history) whilst a feudal unit exists only with reference to its chief.

[Riothamus]

By the way, please let me say that I do not disagree (my God, if I start to agree, where is the debate!) with the fact that upkeep (for some armies types, especially professional) should be high. What I tried to point out is that (i) not all units were professional armies, and even if they were, they were differences in nature between the 3 types of "professional armies" (in fact, there was nothing like real professional armies from the fall of the WRE - and thus the disappearance of the Comitatenses - and the 13th-14th centuries in continental Europe except for Free Cities like in Italy, but mainly feudal armies), namely the (a) Comitatenses, real professional regular armies, (b) the Mercenaries / Barbarian units brought into Roman service (that could sometimes indeed transform into quasi regular armies but created serious threats, as you mention it, and as I tried to mention it in my much too long post) and (c) the start of the feudal armies, that is a group around a leader.

Of course, types (a) and (b) did evolved into (c). But I think that regarding recruitment time, recruitment and upkeep costs, it would be great if those 3 types were different and identified, as it would (IMHO) create more categorised armies, that would partly go along with the different culture paths.

All the best,

FFJean

Yes, I do understand your point FFjean and its very interesting. It get clouded though professional units or not when an army is recruited and have at your disposal may it be in the field or in the settlement. In reality if its at your disposal for us, may it be peasants or elites-it is a standing professional army that needs to be upkeep so game fails us somewhat in this regard. In reality armies(Germanic) were disbanded and men went back to their homes. In Britain and Gaul the armies were mostly temporary-seasonal and rarely ever a year long paid service. I although have made considerable adjustments between these two types and will look deeper into this to see what can be done. I have created a signal station then a village post as front liners- peasant or local militia types that precede the barrack type troops-the more professional types. All this is under the building tier; also this has been done on the Building Archery and Equestrian tiers. They are very and cost low upkeep. Maybe this is in the realm of this thinking somewhat...

Im having considerable trouble editing or posting on the forum. Cant seem to post w/o it double posting-quite frustrating!

[FFJean]

Dear Riothamus,

First, please find attached the guides for RR ("Real Recruitment") and RC ("Real Combat") that were originally developed by Point Blank for Stainless Steel and made available by him to the TW community. k/t has further developed this approach for Broken Crescent and The Last Kingdom. The most interesting thing in this is for me the very logical, rational approach to both size of the units (depending on type ie not only Inf/Cav/Bodyguards but also whethet they are Elite/etc), combat ability of the units (depending on type, armament and armour, masses, etc) and recruitment and upkeep costs (calculated not per unit but on a much more logical approach, per men).

With regards to IB2/CB Expansion, what is the starting date? Am I right to think it is 449 AD? Just to allow more debate

[FFJean]

Don't know what has happened this time. Dear Riothamus, there sure is a problem! I also had some problems with double posting, and this time, it didn't allow me to finish my post.

I just wanted to say "Best regards, FFJean".

[Riothamus]

Don't know what has happened this time. Dear Riothamus, there sure is a problem! I also had some problems with double posting, and this time, it didn't allow me to finish my post.

I just wanted to say "Best regards, FFJean".

452AD And this particular mod pertains to Britannia as the mods focus or central point. Hibernia, Gaul and N Germania are included.

And thank you FFJean for this information.

[FFJean]

Dear Riothamus,

Did you get the 3 attachements? I don t know what is working and not!

Best regards,

FFJean

[FFJean]

Dear Riothamus,

Largely off topic (or rather off topic as it relates to events that happened 90 years before the start of CB), but as, if I remember correctly, you are very much interested in Emperor Julian, I just want to really warmly recommend a book that has been written by a French philosopher who was a man of great laerning, student of Vladimir Jankelevitch and teacher of Michel Onfray, named Lucien Jerphagnon, who passed away 2 years ago. I don't know whether this book, named "Julien, dit l'Apostat" in French (translation would be "Julian, called the Apostate") has been translated in English, but it is an incredebly well-written book, very easy to read, displaying at the same time the extraordinary erudition of Jerphagnon, who is a specialist of Greek and Roman philisophies and of Saint Augustine. For me, it is his best book, although many others (like "the History of antique Rome", "the Divine Caesars", etc) are worth reading.

Best regards,

FFJean

[ceretic]

Hey FFJean... please be really patient waiting for a response from Rio because he is up to his eyeballs in code at the moment working on the next mod update... he does his very best to answer everyone's questions but I know he is very busy at the moment, so allow him several days before he responds!

[FFJean]

Thank you Ceretic! Let's put the blame on my eagerness to support. Very often too much eagerness to support can end up pretty annoying, I'll try not to fall again in this trap!

Best regards,

FFJean

[Riothamus]

I thus far received 2 of the attachments: Real Recruitment 1.3 Guide and RealCombat 1.8 Guide. The other I cant seem to upload yet. Ive been looking at them carefully thus far and see things pertaining much to a Feudal era that's a bit in he future concerning our mod, Its is although much more applicable for our final two mods Odoacer and IB the final huge version=IBFD2 itself. I'm still at odds w/its upkeep system and please respect the fact I do not ascribe to it for it simply tries to define some aspects in too much detail and misses the more important aspects to what upkeep is especially during our Britannia mod. I although do see some use and implementation on the mods after it so let me point out I'm not seeing it as not a useful guide in some way. It certainly can have an influence and our proceeding mods.

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Personally I like how CB2 is the way it it is now

[FFJean]

Dear Riothamus,

Let me say that I fully concur with what you say. My point was not to push in any way (or lobby as I have 0 pushuing ability ;-)) to use RR as is, but to share it with you as an example of a very rationale approach (ie show the soul rather than the body). With regards to the RC part, I think that the way to compute is equally rationale and could be replicated with some benefits.

But never ever I thought this could be used 'as is', please believe me for this!

Warm regards.

FFJean

[Riothamus]

Dear Riothamus,

Let me say that I fully concur with what you say. My point was not to push in any way (or lobby as I have 0 pushuing ability ;-)) to use RR as is, but to share it with you as an example of a very rationale approach (ie show the soul rather than the body). With regards to the RC part, I think that the way to compute is equally rationale and could be replicated with some benefits.

But never ever I thought this could be used 'as is', please believe me for this!

Warm regards.

FFJean

Its all good FFJean. It warms my heart that you have such an interest in our mod. Id like to send you a beta copy from our developers room that's nearly complete for you to look at and critique in any way you feel you must. Ill try and tell why things may be as such for I'm sure you will have questions. A building military and economic guide is in the works so this may help when its done with much of the explaining.

[FFJean]

Dear Riothamus,

I would be more than happy to support especially with testing this beta copy. Please tell me what to do (just taking into account my IT stupidity), I mean how to receive the beta and install, and i'd be very honoured to participate.

Thank you very much,

FFJean

[Reno Melitensis]

Dear Riothamus,

I would be more than happy to support especially with testing this beta copy. Please tell me what to do (just taking into account my IT stupidity), I mean how to receive the beta and install, and i'd be very honoured to participate.

Thank you very much,

FFJean

No one is stupid FFJean, every one can learn. We very much appreciate your interest in the IB II mods.
Keep up the good suggestions coming in, they only help to make this baby of ours even better. Its Rio's baby, we are its guardians.

Cheers

[FFJean]

Dear Reno,

No doubt I am totally stupid wrt IT! But thank you for your kinds words, and bravo for your pics! This helmet is awesome.

Best regards,

FFJean

[Riothamus]

Dear Reno,

No doubt I am totally stupid wrt IT! But thank you for your kinds words, and bravo for your pics! This helmet is awesome.

Best regards,

FFJean

Well we are all stupid at one time or another- but a better word is just not aware. It is the will of the intent to become aware that makes us noble. and the unwillingness of not wanting to become aware that makes us stupid. We are all guilty of it but hopefully more times than not. I'll pm you with a beta copy and go through what you will need to do and will respond to any questions you may have my friend.

Expansion Updated-
Wooden castles can no longer recruit large amount of units just from the castles construction.
Added throwing axe mercenary for the Saxons and Jutes around Ceint
Siege towers eliminated except for the Roman factions
Rivers around the Gododdin northern boundries will act as a barrier
River Ouse in front of Ebrauc will at as a defensive barrier from the Angli settlement to its south
Severn River corrreted-made passable by boats
Powys settlement made to look Romano
Added Germanic names and to several famiy trees(Ceretc)
Put Cadbury on hillort
Signal tower and Village posts added to the Barracs tier thus low grad troops(free upkeep in forts)
Alt Clut alternant family tree added

relative Ceretic, Eurgain, Cynwyd, end
relative Cilydd, Goleuddydd, Culhwch, end

Culhwch will be a knight(as in the combo-Celtic Christian terminology) as w/ all he Knights of the Roundtable
Added Cerdic as a spawned prince w/4 stacks at 494 w/5 boats and w/custom portrait
Spawned Jute large armies in the same region several times before the arrival of Cerdic
Added several more knights of the round table
Drustun will be know a knight in Dumnonia

Expanded file strengths and weaknesses WIP
Corrected unit card appearences WIP
Corrected EU Definitions WIP
A few faction 2d art symbol changes in the interface files

Huge Help from new Beta Testers :
Mr Kriegtooth
JVR