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Thread: IB2 BRITANNIAE III DOWNLOAD AND DISCUSSION

  1. #141

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    Thank you guys, i understand, and this is great news, indeed. Can't wait to experience the results!

  2. #142

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    First off I gotta say a great big thank you to Rio and the team for this great mod. I've played Britanniae a good bit and I'm really excited about the new patch. The improvements sound like this great mod is going to be that much greater. Thanks for everything, I enjoy the countless hours and battles because of you guys and the community have worked so hard and long to make this awesome mod. Thanks for all the amazing work guys and just know it is greatly appreciated!

  3. #143

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    ya i dont think these guys get the thanx they deserve, ol rio has had a few sleepless nights im sure

  4. #144

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    I think the only thing ol' Rio needs is to feel content about his work, which only we can trigger. These are nice comments with emotional tsunamis, high download numbers, proper feedback through many pages for decades, and finally a large amount of flowers every month at his doorsteps. We can give no more.

  5. #145
    ceretic's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    Three hundred authentic Germanic personal names completed tonight for the continental-Germanic factions... onwards and upwards
    "Morydd left not one man of the army alive, but ordered each to be brought before him, one after another, to be killed and then flayed; and he rested for a short while, and then had the others to be flayed alive and afterwards burned." Ystorya Brenhined y Brytanyeit, Jesus MS. LXI


  6. #146
    Stath's's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    whaaaat? that is really great!!


  7. #147

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    Niice one You folks are really dedicated to the improvement of this mod. Admirable.

  8. #148
    Vranac91's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    Yes, Rio and the team are phenomenal with the stunning amount of work they do and the pains they go through to keep it highly detailed and accurate... thanks you guys!

  9. #149

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    Many thanks you to all of you for such heart felt words from myself and the team.

    Under the esteemed patronage of Ramon Gonzales y Garcia IB and IB2 Mod

  10. #150

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    Dear Rio,

    First, let me say that I really look forward to playing this mod. First, it is a time period that is very appealing to me, second, I was always fond of IBFD mods for RTW/BI (esp. yours about Julian), third, I see how much work has been put in this mod. So please, do not take my criticisms as anything but trying to be positive comments. My language is not English but French, so please take this into account. My intention (and I hope the text of this message) is not at all to be harsh on you and your team, but to try to humbly contribute.

    I have just installed IBFD/CB and I must say I am experiencing a huge number of problems, as mentioned by some others. Chief among the problems for me are the following:
    - Playing with Concilius Britannicus (and same with the WRE), each and every town is experiencing a 80% religious unrest, apparently Christian, despite all having (apparently) Christian shrines or Christian chapels or Christian churches;
    - Cost/upkeep of units appear (to me) totally inconsistent. I do not understand how most units costs are much higher (much, much, much) on upkeep than on recruitment costs. I also can't see how units upkeeps can be as low as 80/turn up to 1,800. Frankly, I can't imagine any mathematical/real life explanation for such a difference;
    - These recruitment/upkeep costs look even stranger to me when I compare them with building costs;
    - Differing numbers or soldiers per unit are also something that I do not understand.

    All in all, if I may, I think that an approach of the RR/RC type would be very much needed, so as to change this.

    Again, I do not mean to be harsh or rude, and I hope that I am not, as I really appreciate all the impressive work that has been done on this mod set at a time which is one of my very favourites (the fall of the Roman empire).

    If I can contribute in anything, apart from these comments that I would very much like you not to misunderstand, I would be very much ready to do it. Although I have 0 IT skill, maybe I can try to have a look at RR/RC to discuss the main points of its rationale. Obviously, all these points may already be planned to be solved in the oncoming Expansion version, so my comments would be useless.

    Best regards, and again many thanks for your hard work,

    FFJean

  11. #151

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by FFJean View Post
    Dear Rio,

    First, let me say that I really look forward to playing this mod. First, it is a time period that is very appealing to me, second, I was always fond of IBFD mods for RTW/BI (esp. yours about Julian), third, I see how much work has been put in this mod. So please, do not take my criticisms as anything but trying to be positive comments. My language is not English but French, so please take this into account. My intention (and I hope the text of this message) is not at all to be harsh on you and your team, but to try to humbly contribute.

    I have just installed IBFD/CB and I must say I am experiencing a huge number of problems, as mentioned by some others. Chief among the problems for me are the following:
    - Playing with Concilius Britannicus (and same with the WRE), each and every town is experiencing a 80% religious unrest, apparently Christian, despite all having (apparently) Christian shrines or Christian chapels or Christian churches;
    - Cost/upkeep of units appear (to me) totally inconsistent. I do not understand how most units costs are much higher (much, much, much) on upkeep than on recruitment costs. I also can't see how units upkeeps can be as low as 80/turn up to 1,800. Frankly, I can't imagine any mathematical/real life explanation for such a difference;
    - These recruitment/upkeep costs look even stranger to me when I compare them with building costs;
    - Differing numbers or soldiers per unit are also something that I do not understand.

    All in all, if I may, I think that an approach of the RR/RC type would be very much needed, so as to change this.

    Again, I do not mean to be harsh or rude, and I hope that I am not, as I really appreciate all the impressive work that has been done on this mod set at a time which is one of my very favourites (the fall of the Roman empire).

    If I can contribute in anything, apart from these comments that I would very much like you not to misunderstand, I would be very much ready to do it. Although I have 0 IT skill, maybe I can try to have a look at RR/RC to discuss the main points of its rationale. Obviously, all these points may already be planned to be solved in the oncoming Expansion version, so my comments would be useless.

    Best regards, and again many thanks for your hard work,

    FFJean
    Thank you FFJan The criticisms are constructive and valid, Everything you mentioned we have tried to correct and can say with confidence the mod will be now much improved.

    The one major point I disagree with you is with the unit upkeep costs. To maintain a professional army in the field or ready for use, the upkeep will always be greater than recruitment coasts. Its a fact of history and a major reason why Rome could not pay its troops from time to time, Mods that avoid this are playing some sort of delusional fantasy game and are not dealing w/the facts of what it costs to feed, house and physically sustain a professional army all year around. Remember in the game you pay once to recruit a unit but in reality legions were paid several times a year and we aren't even talking about maintenince and all what have I stated above. The problem becomes further magnified as we enter the post Roman heroic society as the general unit becomes in reality the only professional field army. In rare cases possibly units were professional on a limited basis(6 months a year) or paid by mans of land and status. The General unit upkeep will always be the highest as they were always needed by the king and his family as governors to help rule and for their constant protection. They were the top of the heroic society and life at this level is like todays billionaire compared to the working man. The disparity will be tremendously significant as represented in the mod. .

    But to many of your other points we have at least addressed them and e have hopefully created a much improved mod. Make sure to have the 11.6 path w/the mod. The New Expansion we have coming out encompasses the 11.6 - so all that will be needed is the official mod or the official mod w/the 11.6 path The Expansion will be able to go right over the 11.6 patch
    Last edited by Riothamus; April 24, 2013 at 12:13 PM. Reason: WITH

    Under the esteemed patronage of Ramon Gonzales y Garcia IB and IB2 Mod

  12. #152

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    This comment is not needed anymore since Rio has already answered but i can't delete my comment.
    Last edited by benczeb90; April 24, 2013 at 12:40 PM.

  13. #153

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by benczeb90 View Post
    This comment is not needed anymore since Rio has already answered but i can't delete my comment.
    I've created several added buildings to the Archery, stable and barrack's tree. For instance the first level Barracks is a signal tower-station. It alerts the local peasant militia in the region to respond and to be available. The Signal tower is required for the first level archery and stable buildings. Those buildings have peasant militia types also. Its not until you reach the third level military buildings that units become more professional, thus it is required a prov. military governor. Each culture has its own name or office title. thus begins a rigorous assimilation process to acquire your better units. The Prov economic governor is thus now required to help construct the government buildings required for this to happen and to help your provincial settlement prosper economically...Remember the settlement is the representation of your Province in all ways.

    The creation of this process now forces the assimilation process which was historically necessary at any period in time by an expanding people. AOR will still be necessary as certain units will always remain regional and this coincides with the Merc forts that can be built oh conquered land and recruit units from that region other than there own.

    A building guide will be set up for it can be life or death if the wrong buildings are constructed. It will be very be necessary to understand the process that leads up to complete assimilation of a region.
    Last edited by Riothamus; April 25, 2013 at 01:46 PM.

    Under the esteemed patronage of Ramon Gonzales y Garcia IB and IB2 Mod

  14. #154

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    Wow this sounds serious. So one must think twice before building anything and also understand the process.
    My question is - though i'm not sure i remember everything you might have said about this -, that will there be one or more than one >correct< ways to create a powerful settlement? If one screws up the building sequence is he doomed? Are there 'best' ways to create either economically or militarily superior settlements? In other words: is there only one way to create the best possible settlement, or can i choose if i want a militarily or economically 'best' settlement?
    Last edited by benczeb90; April 25, 2013 at 05:07 PM. Reason: spelling

  15. #155

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by benczeb90 View Post
    Wow this sounds serious. So one must think twice to before building anything and also understand the process.
    My question is - though i'm not sure i remember everything you might have said about this -, that will there be one or more than one >correct< ways to create a powerful settlement? If one screws up the building sequence is he doomed? Are there 'best' ways to create either economically or militarily superior settlements? In other words: is there only one way to create the best possible settlement, or can i choose if i want a militarily or economically 'best' settlement?
    K. Very good question. First off all you must bring order to your provinces by building law and happiness. Its a trying period as revolt is new in many of the factions in Britain and WRE in Gaul is on its way to becoming a romp state thus will need careful planning more so than any other faction first 4 years(24 turns)or the Franks will become an unbearable foe. Then you can move on.... Now this all may depend upon the faction but I like to set up certain settlements for my Y armies and other settlements to focus on building a strong economy. I've found it very difficult to try both in a settlement. Reasons may depend upon the location(at the front)or resources available to that province. Iron would enhance you weaponries so its advantages to construct your armies there...but I'm just trying to show the importance of creating the buildings in sequence and not wasting time and valuable money(cattle, plunder)on an unnecessary constructions. It will not be easy playing the Franks as they were now or any other faction as it was.. a scripted kings purse for the local player has put an end to that. You will be rewarded for not only your military prowess but you ability to conquer, assimilate and to disseminate able governors(military and provincial-You can have both in one) throughout your kingdom to achieve your will. I promise to write out a building guide-one generic for all the factions and the other for each culture... Will need a bit of time to complete the cultures one.

    Under the esteemed patronage of Ramon Gonzales y Garcia IB and IB2 Mod

  16. #156

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    We'll be here Rio

  17. #157

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Riothamus View Post
    Thank you FFJan The criticisms are constructive and valid, Everything you mentioned we have tried to correct and can say with confidence the mod will be now much improved.

    The one major point I disagree with you is with the unit upkeep costs. To maintain a professional army in the field or ready for use, the upkeep will always be greater than recruitment coasts. Its a fact of history and a major reason why Rome could not pay its troops from time to time, Mods that avoid this are playing some sort of delusional fantasy game and are not dealing w/the facts of what it costs to feed, house and physically sustain a professional army all year around. Remember in the game you pay once to recruit a unit but in reality legions were paid several times a year and we aren't even talking about maintenince and all what have I stated above. The problem becomes further magnified as we enter the post Roman heroic society as the general unit becomes in reality the only professional field army. In rare cases possibly units were professional on a limited basis(6 months a year) or paid by mans of land and status. The General unit upkeep will always be the highest as they were always needed by the king and his family as governors to help rule and for their constant protection. They were the top of the heroic society and life at this level is like todays billionaire compared to the working man. The disparity will be tremendously significant as represented in the mod. .

    But to many of your other points we have at least addressed them and e have hopefully created a much improved mod. Make sure to have the 11.6 path w/the mod. The New Expansion we have coming out encompasses the 11.6 - so all that will be needed is the official mod or the official mod w/the 11.6 path The Expansion will be able to go right over the 11.6 patch
    Dear Riothamus,

    First, thank you very much for understanding my comments / criticisms for what they are, positive comments just meant to support you and your team in creating one of the best mod for Kingdom.

    Second, I cited RR/RC not because its figures used as such would perfectly fit IB2, but rather because I have the feeling that a rationale approach to Combat values as well as to Costs would be very benefitial. I have asked k/t (who is developing RR/RC, originally developed for Stainless Steel if I am not wrong, for "Broken Crescent" as well as for "The Last Kingdom") whether I could attach here his latest "RR/RC 2.0 explanation", not because it would be like the Holy Bible of the Ten Commandments, ie something that can't be discussed and must be taken face value, but because I have the feeling (stupid rationalist as I am) that it is a very valuable approach. When I say rationale, I only mean this: that each and every figure of a unit (number of soldiers, costs, values) can be based on a clearly defined logic. Looking through the values in IB2 "as-is" (of course, I can't take into account "Expansion"), I have the feeling that it is not fully the case - and sorry, again, no harm meant, this is just a feeling.

    Third, if I may (and maybe because I am rereading Umberto Eco's "The name of the rose" ), let me try to debate with you about the recruitment vs. upkeep costs as you mentioned them. I would always try to adopt a rationale approach. So for recruitment costs, I would identify 3 potential categories of costs that would apply (or not) to each type of units: first, the cost of the equipment (of course, not for mercenaries that would come with their own equipments), second, the cost of training (if any), third, the cost of any "golden hello" ;-) (like in the industry when top managers are hired). Same approach would be applied to upkeep costs, with: first, the cost of maintenance of the equipment (arms and armours, horses, arrows for archery units, etc), second, the salaries of the soldiers, third, the cost of keeping under arms people that are needed for economical reasons (I hope I am clear enough to be understood). Of course, there may be additional categories that can be discussed, but these are the ones I can identify.

    Applying this, and taking (maybe worongly) the basic idea that there are broadly 4 generic types of units in the "Romanized" factions:
    - First, would be the limitanei that, by mid-5th century, would be mostly armed peasants (or peasants soldiers) with a somehow low combat value, only willing to defend their immediate neighbourhood, for which I would suggest that recruitment cost should be very low, with high upkeep (as having them used as soldiers would deprive the land of a part of its peasants, but also to ensure that they are used as they should be, ie only to defend again a threat, then going back to their main "job" when the threat is over), however a limited number of these units (mostly infantry incl. archery and maybe low level cavalry units) could in each and every town/castle benefit from 0 upkeep for a number of units, the upkeep of the units that do not benefit from 0 upkeep would be much higher than their combat value (so as not to allow the players or the AI to maintain limitanei units as main armies), and their recruitment could be 0 turn (in a way, a call to arms).
    - Second, would be the comitatenses, that are the memories of the professional Roman armies. For these units, they would benefit from 0 cost upkeep only in regional capital cities of castles (London, Soissons, Paris for example?) which would be the only places were they can be recruited, their recruitment cost would be high (on this I disagree with you) as it would include: equipping the units (with standard equipment furnished by the "state" rather than accepting soldiers arriving with their equipments like for mercenaries), paying them during the time of their training and maintaining the equipment during the time of the training. So I would guess that even if wages are lower during training (were they?) and even if indeed maintenance is easier/less costly to organise at training stations than in the field, their recruitment costs would be at laest the cost of the original equipment + 1/2 or 2/3 of their upkeep cost per turn of recruitment (meaning, if it takes 4 turns to recruit such a unit, recruitment cost, in my humble opinion, should cover (i) the cost of theiroriginal equipment as well as (ii) 1/2 or 2/3 of their upkeep cost per turn * 4).
    - Third, would be Mercenary units, mostly Barbarian units (as per the structure invented by hmmm how can I say? maybe quoting Lucien Jerphagnon in his books... Constantine "called by some the Great"... I will not reopen the discussion here about this Emperor...) which would come as already formed, equipped and trained units. For recruitment cost, I guess they should not be very high in proportion (although to have them to low would induce the player into calling them, using them and disbanding them in the same turn, which would not be possible in reality, as these mercenaries would then revolt to get their money) apart from the "golden hello". On the contrary, upkeep should be high or they would desert (best case) or revolt (worst case ;-)). I don't know if anything like this could be modded.
    - Fourth, and last, would be the units that are more pre feudal types, ie attached to their general. For me their upkeep should be high (as you said), and I have no clue about their recruitment cost. At first, in Romanized factions, they should be only general units, but, if and only if the Romanized factions decide to go along the feudal route, they shuold be more numerous.

    Dear Riothamus, I know I have been long and I hope not too boring, but I just wanted to exchange with you on this topic which for me is at the heart of the attraction of campaigns: the difference between factions and units.

    All the best,

    FFJean

  18. #158

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    Oh my god, that's something to think about I still have no problem waiting til August

  19. #159

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    Your points as very constructive and I promise to look at this closely and again thank you for taking such a candid interest in the mod. We did make huge changes to our units stats, costs and upkeep and am pleased at how currently the game is playing that all out. But as to the upkeep you must feed these armies and to keep a professional army stationed anywhere, they are going to be considerable give backs by the curials and his probably came in housing and feeding several thousand troops? This is crushing and the reasons for Saxon revolts not to mention the Legions in Gaul. It is very much an intregal aspect of this mod We can agree to disagree on this my friend. I love what you have argued here for it does make me think. I always believe something can be taking from the most strongest disagreement. We may just look at this philosophy on each others side of the lake. I have made permenant forts that at most times coincide w/siege. unit spawns. There are 4 free upkeep unit slots for each of this fort so this is as far as I go in this regard

    Under the esteemed patronage of Ramon Gonzales y Garcia IB and IB2 Mod

  20. #160

    Default Re: IB2 Britanniae II Expansion Mod

    Dear Riothamus,

    I really appreciate your approach to my opinions. Thank you very much. I'll try to get more to you as soon as k/t authrorizes me to show his guide here. If not, I suggest you have a look at it in "The Last Kingdom/Submods/RRRC" where he has attached his 2.0 guide, which is very rationale.

    For the rest, I won't give up as you allow me to debate ;-). And for this especially, many thanks! And hats off, this is not ordinary (even here) and I think this can bring the best things. Disagreeing is the best way to ensure that one's opinion (here, the opinion that counts, yours) has strong bases.

    Thank you again, and thank for the mod!

    FFJean

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