Shattered Alliances

**Patronus** · December 12, 2012, 02:36 PM

First off, I just wanted to thank the creators of this mod. I absolutely love it. I am nearing the end of my first SE campaign (H/VH) and it has been epic. My armies were involved in the downfall of almost every evil faction (except Gungabad). Plenty of memorable battles and veteran units have resulted from this awesome campaign.

I am in the end game (about 100 turns left) and am about to finish off Harad (I'm in the process of building some elite armies to sack and destroy their heartland cities). Just prior to this, I had attacked and seized Harad's territory in the vicinity of Minas Tirith, Dol Amroth, Tarnost, Erech, Calembel, ect. I wasn't able to save Gondor from Harad's onslaught, so after retaking these areas, I gifted some of them (like Erech and Calembel) to Arnor so that Harad wouldn't retake them when I left. Only a few turns after gifting these areas, Arnor, followed shortly by HE, declared war on Rohan. Rohan and I had a long history of working together against Isengard and Mordor so I stayed allied with them and broke my alliance with HE and Arnor. Erech and Calembel were cut off from the rest of Arnor's kingdom by Rohan's territories. Did this have something to do with Arnor's turning on Rohan?

I had alliances and good if not very good relations with every single good faction (and they were in turn all allied with each other, including HE, Arnor and Rohan). Why the sudden backstabbing? Why did HE side with Arnor (Dwarves and Dale stayed allied with me and Rohan). In addition to Rohan getting attacked, I see my relations with HE and Arnor gradually going down (I've been gifting money to both almost every turn, but relations still go down over time, they're at 'amiable' right now). I feel that it is only a matter of time before my former allies also turn on me. What can I do to stop this fight (I really like playing with lore in mind and prefer not to fight Arnor and HE, though with my economy it shouldn't be too much of a challenge). I play 2.1 (can't wait to try out the 3.2).

One more question, I've noticed that some elven units (both HE and SE) have had their stats changed slightly from what they were in 2.1. How can I change their stats back to what they were in 2.1? I really like the elves (even their low-end units) to be a bit better than everyone else.

**DrDragun** · December 12, 2012, 02:43 PM

When troops cross lands owned by another faction, it will give negative relations with that faction.

Likely, Arnor attempted to move troops into its new cities, thus crossing Rohan lands. The result is Rohan becoming very displeased with Arnor.

**ThaDoews** · December 12, 2012, 03:15 PM

I have wondered why there is nearly no new alliances in game? I really can't remember having seen e.g. Rohan ally with Silvan Elves or Dwarfes!
I know that both of them have diplomats!
Factions often stay with their one ally trough the game....

The elves lowtier units are better than anyone else

You can beat nearly all units with HE's Quendi

**Patronus** · December 12, 2012, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by DrDragun

When troops cross lands owned by another faction, it will give negative relations with that faction.

Likely, Arnor attempted to move troops into its new cities, thus crossing Rohan lands. The result is Rohan becoming very displeased with Arnor.

You may be right DrDragun, but it was Arnor that turned on Rohan, not the other way around.

**k/t** · December 12, 2012, 10:56 PM

" I play 2.1 (can't wait to try out the 3.2).

One more question, I've noticed that some elven units (both HE and SE) have had their stats changed slightly from what they were in 2.1. How can I change their stats back to what they were in 2.1?"

You're playing 2.1, you noticed their stats were changed from the way they were in 2.1, and you want to put them back to the way they were in 2.1?

"I really like playing with lore in mind"

Archaon's Loyal Allies mod. No Rohan fighting Elves crap.

**Patronus** · December 13, 2012, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by k/t

"

You're playing 2.1, you noticed their stats were changed from the way they were in 2.1, and you want to put them back to the way they were in 2.1?

What I mean is, I saw that some of the elven units had their stats lowered (albeit slightly) in 3.2 and I want to know how to modify their stats back to what they are in 2.1.

**Withwnar** · December 13, 2012, 01:43 AM

I think that in 3.2 this happens less often. Perhaps somebody else can confirm or refute that.

Various submods tackle it in one way or another. This one lets you form alliances between your allies; once allied they will not go to war with each other unless the the alliance is broken somehow. i.e. You can pick and choose who to set up alliances with, as opposed to all good sides allied to each other.

None of that helps your current campaign though. You need a save game compatible solution...

You can try allying with Arnor. That should cause a ceasefire between Arnor and Rohan. Likewise for HE.

If they will not ally with you then this will let you force them into agreeing, so long as the "Alliance" option is available (which it sometimes isn't).

Either way there's no guarantee that the ceasefire will hold.

Alternatively, this will let you create an alliance between any two factions. You can add multiple diplomatic_stance lines to set up more than one at once.
Arnor = turks
HE = egypt
Rohan = milan
SE = mongols

Units: here is one tutorial. There might be others.

**Flinn** · December 13, 2012, 05:15 AM

I don't know how it works exactly in TATW 3.2, but I'm quite sure that if you hold a region that is included amongst those a specific faction needs to comply with victory conditions this would be a problem, as they will attack you for sure if neutral (even if the relations are good or better), not sure how it comes out with allies.

Unitl now I never saw an ally with wich I have reciprocal military access to betray me, but I won't put my hand on fire ..

anyway, in MTW2 (kingdoms included) the stronger was your faction, the easier you could have betraied, even by long term allies with good relations.

I guess if it works similarly between AI allied factions..

Ciao

Flinn

**Withwnar** · December 13, 2012, 05:30 AM

I think that TATW has been set up such that allies will never go to war. I might be thinking of a submod but I have never seen it happen in vanilla.

**Ngugi** · December 13, 2012, 07:27 AM

No, that's true.
Only war between a factions allies or an Invasion can break it IIRC

**k/t** · December 13, 2012, 12:22 PM

D:\SEGA\Medieval 2 Total War\mods\Third_Age\data

http://medieval2.heavengames.com/m2t...de/index.shtml
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=221093
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=111344
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=221100

But you're better off getting of the RC submods for 3.2.

**DrDragun** · December 13, 2012, 12:32 PM

Personally I like realistic political belligerence in the game. There is none of the "Pure Good" vs "Pure Evil" fairytale in The Hobbit. The dwarves almost come to bloodshed with Thranduil, then we have a rather nasty dispute at Erebor where each party brought an armed force to take their loot. All to fight over some gold and mithril. Tolkien multiple times referred to Dwarf clans fighting. Personally I like the fact that the Dwarves don't take any nonsense and freely fight with the other good factions.