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Thread: Italy Election Day

  1. #181
    King Gambrinus's Avatar Equites
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos View Post
    And who's better than Italy to give this message?
    Grillo. Belursconi will just continue to assure the corruption in Italy and drive it into a third world country. Like Greece is now.
    Fear not, crusader, Prester John will save you from the wrath of the Devil.

  2. #182
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    Well, if anti austerity and anti Europe is your thing voting Grillo makes much more sense than voting Berlusconi.

  3. #183
    eXistenZ's Avatar Centurio Primus Ordine
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar Germanico View Post
    Well, if anti austerity and anti Europe is your thing voting Grillo makes much more sense than voting Berlusconi.
    That i can agree on. But still berlusconi gets a massive amount of votes. I know he controls like all public channels and makes himself popular by buying balotelli for milan and looking like a playboy. But italy isnt china: you can go online and read other, more critical newsreports. Even simple fact checking would prove that he is lying way more about issues than his political collagues.

  4. #184
    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Armchair Revolutionary View Post
    Grillo. Belursconi will just continue to assure the corruption in Italy and drive it into a third world country. Like Greece is now.
    Hilarious. Let's face it, neither of those two is a reliable choice but the message was still sent: austerity lost.
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  5. #185
    RNV's Avatar Princeps
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Armchair Revolutionary View Post
    People who say Grillo does not have a program are talking out of their arses. He's already said he'd cut the ridiculous defence budget, the red tape, a whole bunch of useless politicians, apparatchiks etc... and fund education and Green industry, as well as tax cuts for the middle classes. Obviously getting rid of scum like Belursconi is his main priority though.

    Isn't this what most of you cry out for, or are you still living in flat-tax dream-world without any governments and where poor people don't exist/aren't your concern?
    While I agree that people who Say M5S has no program tend to exaggerate its true that they have somewhat confused ideas... But in any case I think they are honest and will enforce some law and the elimination of some privilege of the political class. I want to point out that our defence budget its not "ridiculous" but in line with other european nations (even if we should spend more on armaments and less on personnel) and that its only something like 35-38 milliards of .
    That said public spending has to be cutted but not on services and defence that generate income but on the current expenses: public spending in Italy its 800 milliards of wich 300-340 are services (considering defence a service as it is) and the rest are administrative costs, political costs, salaries of public administrators and medical supplies.
    Lets analyze these:
    administrative costs might be lowered by eliminating provinces and maybe regions as istitutions and so political costs. Salaries of public servant should not be touched, even if some don't deserve a lira there are many that do hard work and cutting salaries would send us in deeper recession, public manager on the other hand need to be reduced and to have their salaries cutted as they are admittely too high. Medical supplies should be bought on market price with a standard cost mechanism not like now that they are bought sometime even 2 or 3 time the market price. After this I would alse eliminate special statute regions, as it dose'nt make sense, Valle d'Aosta is the region that cost more to us all, pro capite, whit Trentino-Alto Adige and Sicily immediately following, those are privileges too and must be eliminated.

  6. #186
    King Gambrinus's Avatar Equites
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos View Post
    Hilarious. Let's face it, neither of those two is a reliable choice but the message was still sent: austerity lost.
    Manuel, apart from Monti, all the main candidates were self-proclaimed "anti-austerity" candidates. Bersani out of "principle", Belursconi because he'll say anything to get elected and Grillo because he doesn't want people to be governed by the Troika.

    Why aren't you supporting Bersani? Let me guess, because he's to the political left of Metaxas?

    Why aren't you supporting Grillo? Is it because you know that a movement like his would almost certainly succeed in Greece and your beloved nation might not have a military to wave about like a penis anymore?

    Why are you suddenly supporting one of the main reason's Italy is in this mess and a man who rivals Greece's political landscape in terms of corruption, something you have denounced time and time again? That's the real question that's unanswered here.
    Fear not, crusader, Prester John will save you from the wrath of the Devil.

  7. #187
    Principe Alessandro's Avatar Pili Posterior
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos View Post
    Hilarious. Let's face it, neither of those two is a reliable choice but the message was still sent: austerity lost.
    Not really, the only one of the candidates that I think could be against the austerity measures is Grillo because he has nothing to lose. Berlusconi and Bersani instead are the same people who supported the Monti government and the austerity measures until now because they represent the old political establishment.

    Monti himself was just the frontman of the italian political parties doing the dirty job and taking all the blame while both Berlusconi's and Bersani's parties supported in parliament all the austerity measures.

    Maybe being Greek you see things here with your perspective but the reality is that the Italian politics is pure comedy and lying to the electorate.

  8. #188
    Nikitn's Avatar Centurio Primus Ordine
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos View Post
    Hilarious. Let's face it, neither of those two is a reliable choice but the message was still sent: austerity lost.
    It isn't very surprising, considering how the vote is akin to a very sick kid being allowed to choose if he wants badly tasting, but very crucial, medicine or just candy.

  9. #189
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Praefectus Cohortis
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    Cannot believe central right actually seize 116 seats in Senate...
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by O'Hea View Post
    The only reason why Charlemagne came into this at all is because Hellheaven thought it'd be a fun way to troll some byzantophiles.

  10. #190
    alhoon's Avatar Tribunus Augusticlavii
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos View Post
    If I were Italian I would have voted for Berlusconi.

    If I was in Italy I would certainly vote for Silvio! He's the man! no, he's the MAN!
    Of course if I was an Italian I would certainly try to vote for someone that's not openly corrupt, so that I could at least be at peace with myself. Yet, Silvio is so awesome that I may have failed.

    My choices would be:
    1. Former communist that is leading a center left to left coalition with conflicting agendas. That coalition got the popular vote. Okaaay, kinda expected with austerity and unemployment rising and all that people would look to the left for some social protection.
    However it's not the time to give money to people unfortunately. It's time to take unpopular and harsh measures.

    2. Openly corrupt lecher that is TOTALLY awesome. At least he has the balls to admit that he's corrupt and nobody in politics can stop him even when he kinda admits his many "shortcomings". Yet, his coalition includes secessionists and he appeals to Mussolini followers. So awesome dude or not, I would have trouble voting for him. (Yet there's a good chance that I would anyway)

    3. A comedian convicted for manslaughter that leads a "give them the finger" anti-austerity party that grew from ??? to being the most popular single party riding on people's frustration. While I believe they're far more clean than our radical SYRIZA hotheads, I believe they share the same complete inexperience and even if they don't try to do all the retarded things they said they will try, they are an even faster way to oblivion than Silvio. Silvio at least has very rich friends and doesn't want to let everything crush and burn.

    4. Monti. Austerity technocrat that seems like... I don't know, a computer generated image? Although I believe he's the answer, I find him the complete opposite of Silvio when it comes to charisma. He got very few votes because of his needed but unpopular measures. I'm pretty sure his complete lack of personality and color costed him too.

    So that's it.
    I would be between voting a solution by a completely blant politician, blant like bread without salt that I believe has the solutions and Silvio which is nearly-certain doom but he's awesome and majestic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Armchair Revolutionary View Post
    Why are you suddenly supporting one of the main reason's Italy is in this mess and a man who rivals Greece's political landscape in terms of corruption, something you have denounced time and time again? That's the real question that's unanswered here.
    COMPLETELY unfair!
    Only Mitsotakis is close to being as corrupt as Silvio is and still he didn't do all the sex scandals and abuse of power!
    I dare say nobody from the main parties of EU rivals Silvio in terms of corruption.

    And of course Silvio basks in this, smiling smuggly about it. When pressed of course, he kicks us and in 2 months he comes close to having the most powerful coalition. Because corruption scandals REALLY don't hurt as much as our politicians are afraid they do.
    Last edited by alhoon; February 26, 2013 at 04:56 PM.

  11. #191
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    ...

    My choices would be:
    1. Former communist that is leading a center left to left coalition with conflicting agendas. That coalition got the popular vote. Okaaay, kinda expected with austerity and unemployment rising and all that people would look to the left for some social protection.
    However it's not the time to give money to people unfortunately. It's time to take unpopular and harsh measures.

    ....
    The notion that right wing politicians are somehow more keen on financial responsibility is not substantiated by reality. They might not enact welfare reforms but somehow often manage to run up worse deficits than those supposed commies do and since they don't enact it for welfare programs it often isn't even for a superficially good cause, they just manage to be worse at keeping the money together.
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
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  12. #192
    King Gambrinus's Avatar Equites
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    Indeed, Mangalore, the two countries with the highest debt at the moment, Italy and France, were under the stewardship of the so-called fiscally responsible populist right. Considering Blair was essentially a Christian Democrat, that means three of the big EU countries were under right-wing stewardship coming up to the financial crisis.

    But most of our right-wing nationalists would vote for a donkey if it had a blue rosette on it, so there you go.
    Fear not, crusader, Prester John will save you from the wrath of the Devil.

  13. #193
    Basil II the B.S's Avatar Equites Alares
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    I'm fairly satisfied with the current direction. The left will form the government but they'll be hostage of Grillo.
    In short:
    -syndacalist nonsense will be excluded. Grillo hates the trade unions and already said he wants them to be abolished. Any measure in that direction won't have the support of any secondary party, nor Berlusconi, nor Monti.
    -green stuff will be promoted. I'm not against it, but right not it's not the time. Still better then the above.
    -cuts to the number of mps, and their salaries. This will be done. It's the n.1 reason people voted Grillo and his credibility is at the stakes. If the left doesn't do it, their government won't make it to 1 year.
    -minimum income for the unemployed. This will end up bad, still better than wasting money on the mps salaries.
    -no more endless austerity. The left doesn't like it, Grillo hates it. It's unlikely they'll come up with growth policies anyways.

    Overall, could be worse. A pure left wing government would have been a disaster. Monti II would have meant no growth for the next 5 years. Berlusconi, ugggh. But at least he's the only one recognizing that the recession spiral thanks to austerity leads nowhere.

  14. #194
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Denny Crane!
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    I can see Italy losing the Euro. Its also ranked lower than some banana republics as a place to do business, there is no hope without sorting some of that out and getting rid of the Euro of course.

  15. #195
    Diocle's Avatar Centurio Primus Pilus
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    Grillo speaks of € at two speeds, that is two different currencies (maybe also France is interested....).....Grillo promotes a referendum about the currency, Grillo will be the gun at the temple of Bersani.

    Now, the next interesting event will be the German Elections........

  16. #196
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    I can see Italy losing the Euro. Its also ranked lower than some banana republics as a place to do business, there is no hope without sorting some of that out and getting rid of the Euro of course.
    Greece must go first then. I still can't understand why Syriza won't support the "Grexit". Or...


    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Grillo speaks of € at two speeds, that is two different currencies (maybe also France is interested....).
    Pretty much this.
    Now, the next interesting event will be the German Elections........
    Who's predicted to win that?
    Fear not, crusader, Prester John will save you from the wrath of the Devil.

  17. #197
    Occhi Di Davide's Avatar QVID MELIVS ROMA?
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    Default Re: Italy Election Day

    MOVIMENTO 5 STELLE: ONE OF THE THINGS THEY HAVE ALREADY DONE...





    IT READS:


    M5S: FACTS AND NO WORDS


    The 15 "grillini" elected at the region Sicily
    from the salary of 10.700 euro per month
    keep 2.500 euro and 8.200 euro are given back to the region Sicily.

    8.200 x 15 = 123.000 euro per month
    123,000 x 12 months = 1.476.000 euro per year
    1.476.000 euro x 5 years = 7.380.000 euro per legislature

    15 common people , gift to the region Sicily

    7 MILLIONS AND 380.000 EURO

    as micro-credit for the factories with 10 or fewer employees.

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