Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 90

Thread: IWTE - Vegetation editing

  1. #41

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    The tip is "don't use dense tree vegetation" - I can tell you how to reduce the density but not how to stop it flickering with lots of trees

    There's a long discussion between me and Leo about that somewhere in the main thread. I don't think changing the model necessarily helps as it's actually the sprites that tend to flash. You could change the db settings so it stops showing the sprites for trees at a certain distance (as it does for small shrubs) but that would probably be noticeably odd looking if the forest pops up as you zoom in!

    (Can't remember at the moment if it's related to individual computer spec's as well - think it might have been)

  2. #42
    paradamed's Avatar Praepositus
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Brasília, Brasil
    Posts
    5,806

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Thanks for answering Mak. I noticed that there is some kind of a gap in which neither the model nor the sprite itself are shown. I think I can live with that. I tried messing with the db file and had a little improvement having the sprites pop up closer. I couldnt increase the distance the model appears. I tried increasing the number related to the models but the more I increased the less trees would appear.

  3. #43
    wilddog's Avatar Paintedwolves run free
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,337

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    @paradamed, Shouldn't really be a gap as the parameters indicate the 'distance' when models should stop and sprites take over and then when sprites should stop. The issue has come up several times but basically its a case of a limit on what the game can handle and you seem to be exceeding it. Then it becomes a cut off as to the order that the the game builds up the 'view' detail. Only means of avoiding it so far is to reduce the components of a vegetation model (less triangles, vertices etc) and/or have less of them i.e. lower density/ less distance to view. The less of them applies to both model and sprite.

  4. #44
    paradamed's Avatar Praepositus
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Brasília, Brasil
    Posts
    5,806

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Ok, got it, thanks. it is weird to see how rtw handles vegetation better than m2tw as there are no such restrictions. How exactly do I reduce the density of a forest pls?

  5. #45

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    The easiest, and first step I'd just change the amount of 'forest' in the Vegetation Distribution for the 'forest_dense' category in that climate;
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	forestgeogdb.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	150.4 KB 
ID:	314873
    "Veg/GeogDB" tab, "Read/edit geography.db" button; make sure you're on "main processes" tab
    go to your problem climate in the drop down box
    check the number at the intersection of 'forest' and 'for_dense', if it's 0.5 or above try reducing it...
    click "OK - write files"
    you'll have a new .db called
    descr_geography_new_IWTE.db
    re-name it to get rid of the _IWTE and replace the old one.

    if that doesn't help and/or you'd rather have clumps of dense forest but more gaps between, then you can play with the G-Hardness tab settings
    (dense forest ground type on the campaign map, doesn't necessarily give you forest_dense type all over the battle map, there's a translation through the other tables in the .db and a standard deviation thingy that gets applied) - let me know if you want more info on those bits.

  6. #46
    paradamed's Avatar Praepositus
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Brasília, Brasil
    Posts
    5,806

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Hey Mak, since you replied I still had no time to test it. I was waiting for the opportunity to test it to reply but since I still dont have the time I couldnt give the feedback. I believe I will have no more doubts since you gave easily understandable instructions. I was afraid I could sound rude. Thank you very much, anyway!

  7. #47
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Following this post, http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post13489853, is it easier or better to integrate the RTW vegetation in M2TW with the last IWTE version? The idea is to use the one from RS2 in M2TW.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  8. #48

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Well definitely use the latest version as that will have some bug fixes... but no, it's not got a lot easier than that

    Sprite production I think is at least as good as vanilla M2 in the later IWTE versions - but you still need to do the .tga>dds>texture conversion with the produced images to get them in game.

    And for optimum results you still need to change the flat planes of the model so they're double sided, and weld the verts together so they share normals, otherwise you get the nasty lighting effects (they show worse on some things than others, depending on design/colour), and if you're bothering to do that, do it before producing the sprites as it effects the lighting on those too...

  9. #49
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Ok, I got your point (I think). It's not easier but at least it's better

    Many thanks for the advice about the models and sprites. I'll keep it in mind.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  10. #50

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Since kind of many people were requesting and asking about this, seems like it is possible to use the RS2 vegetation in M2TW (though it ofcourse has some kind of a different look since the m2tw engine handles the 'blending', or what it is called, of grass differently), just have a look at those screens I found recently on some russian website:




  11. #51
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Many thanks for these pics xHolyCrusader. That definitively convinces me that something can be done to implement the vegetation in M2TW based on RS2 one. For now, I'm busy with the animations but when it's done, I'll work on that.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  12. #52

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    When I try to view vegemodel,I found that i can only see black in the window,and the exe said something like "opengl.error"

    what happend?

  13. #53

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Hi, not sure on that - to see the model with the texture in colour, you need to have the texture in .tga format. Otherwise the model should appear in grey/black shades. You shouldn't be getting an error message even if the texture isn't there...

    Are you using the latest IWTE version? and what operating system are you using? if possible could you tell us what version of OpenGl you have? If you don't know you can download something like Realtech's Glview to find out.

  14. #54

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    I use 14_12a version of iwte in Windows7 64bit operation with opengl4.4

  15. #55

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    hmmmm... that's not much different to mine, though I'm on 4.3 - will get WD to look at differences in 4.4

    meanwhile could you get either a screenshot or a copy of the exact text of the error message?
    (to copy from the command window - highlight the text and press 'enter' on your keyboard, then you can paste the text here)

  16. #56

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    With R9 270 graphic card,i can only see black in the window,but when i use iwte in another camputer with gt330m,i can see the models in the window

  17. #57

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    can't see any logical reason why it would work with the one card and not the other... afraid the answer might be use the other computer!

    the only way we might be able to narrow it down is if the computer with the R9 270 graphic card will display any of the other 3d views, i.e. when you open a strat.cas (buildings or trees)
    or the 3d view when .world files are loaded, or if the vegetation sprite generation process works. If one of the other 3d functions works we might be able to figure out what the difference is and fix the non-working one

  18. #58

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Ive been porting some RSII trees to M2TW lately and I noticed some problems with the sprite generation process for very tall and very small objects. On very tall stuff the diffuse maps get very contrasty and some sort of black outline is generated around leaf planes:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    I dont have a screenshot of it but for very small stuff like shrubs the opposite applies, the diffuse (and also normal) maps will be way too bright and have only few contrast.

    The optimal height for vegetation seems to be somewhere around 10-14meters in milkshape, here I combined the original diffuse maps with new diffuse maps I created from only the top part of the tree:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    In the upper row you can see the fixed variants which look a lot smoother than the bottom one which has the the black outlines..

    Also ingame the change between sprite and model wont be as noticeable then:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    I havent tried it yet but rescaling the whole tree, create new diffuse maps from that and use these then for the tall model will probably work, I dont think it'll get the normals right then though..

    Also would it be possible to add an option to add multiple entries to the vege model list "at the same time", its kind of annoying having to open the .db file again and again all the time and the new files that are created every time just spam the whole folder which contains the original vege.db.
    Another tedious thing are the diffuse and normal maps, how do you convert them? Right now I first have to convert one by one in gimp to .dds and then again one by one to .texture. Would be cool to have an option to select multiple .dds/.texture files for conversion at the same time in the IWTE.

    if that doesn't help and/or you'd rather have clumps of dense forest but more gaps between, then you can play with the G-Hardness tab settings
    (dense forest ground type on the campaign map, doesn't necessarily give you forest_dense type all over the battle map, there's a translation through the other tables in the .db and a standard deviation thingy that gets applied) - let me know if you want more info on those bits.
    Is the descr_geography explained anywhere already? Apart from the vegetation distribution tab I dont really get what is going on in this file.. How do I change the ground types on the battlemap (ie dense_forest) to appear more or less and also how to have them appear in few bigger or many smaller parts? And how are the battlemap ground types connected to the strat map ground types, I noticed climates "changing" their look completely by for example having nomore forests but only shrubs instead in "fertile low" areas. Can the battlemap ground type distribution be changed for each campaign map ground type? Or are the changes that come with these hardcoded? :/
    Last edited by xHolyCrusader; July 06, 2016 at 11:53 AM.

  19. #59

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    I havent tried it yet but rescaling the whole tree, create new diffuse maps from that and use these then for the tall model will probably work, I dont think it'll get the normals right then though..
    The tool is designed to stretch/squash the image of the model to use all of the available sprite texture area - that might be doing something to it but I suspect the problem is the background colour (and that bleeding into the feathered alpha'd areas). That background might be altered by where it's taking the 'average colour' from. Could you do me a favour and send me the tga's for sprites for that same model scaled to your 10-14m, versus smaller and larger versions? (wilddog is also having a look)

    Also would it be possible to add an option to add multiple entries to the vege model list "at the same time", its kind of annoying having to open the .db file again and again all the time and the new files that are created every time just spam the whole folder which contains the original vege.db.
    Wilddog says yes he'll have a look, can't promise how long it'll take.

    Another tedious thing are the diffuse and normal maps, how do you convert them? Right now I first have to convert one by one in gimp to .dds
    IWTE can't do that unfortunately - writing to the compressed .dds format is a bit specialised... There is/was a batch converter around, think it stopped working on some OS's though, will see if I can find the link. (see also anyone trying to do unit sprites via M2tw as that needs it too)

    and then again one by one to .texture.
    IWTE could have that added, WD will have a look - he didn't originally because Alpaca's tool already does batch dds to texture and back (we've got a fix for that if your python version is too late for it)



    Is the descr_geography explained anywhere already? Apart from the vegetation distribution tab I dont really get what is going on in this file.. How do I change the ground types on the battlemap (ie dense_forest) to appear more or less and also how to have them appear in few bigger or many smaller parts? And how are the battlemap ground types connected to the strat map ground types, I noticed climates "changing" their look completely by for example having nomore forests but only shrubs instead in "fertile low" areas. Can the battlemap ground type distribution be changed for each campaign map ground type? Or are the changes that come with these hardcoded? :/
    urrgggh, well there's http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...p-modification
    which is RTW but basically the same except for you can ignore the bits about having to hex-edit it...

    it can all definitely be changed, but it's really not easy to predict - I've never got beyond trial and error - first thing to look at for each climate is the table called 'SGT_To_G-Hardness' the first two columns on that should tell you where for a certain ground-type like 'fertile low' the game will start looking in the table G-Harness_To_BGT so if 'fertile low' said 'ROCK' 'QUAL_LOW' then you can look that up in the other table and if it says something like 'gravel' then you can go the the 'vegetation_distribution' table and change the amount of forest/shrubs etc that appear in 'gravel' - however in the fertile low section of the SGT table you also have the gs fade-in, gs median and gs fade-out bias and std dev sections which will change the rate at which it varies between stuff in the G-harness table - so you might only be getting a little bit of gravel and then off into grass_short etc... which rather confuses things - as does having other climates adjacent on the strat-map, they won't pick up the other climates textures (from the non, odd/odd squares) but will pick up some elements of the other climates heights/bias/distribution etc.


    Somewhere around I've got some textures with the resulting /sand/grass_short etc. names actually written on them which can be switched in for testing so you can spot easily what's turning up where - will try and find them and send...

  20. #60

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Quote Originally Posted by makanyane View Post
    urrgggh, well there's http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...p-modification
    which is RTW but basically the same except for you can ignore the bits about having to hex-edit it...
    This looks like a lot of fun to fiddle with...
    it can all definitely be changed, but it's really not easy to predict - I've never got beyond trial and error - first thing to look at for each climate is the table called 'SGT_To_G-Hardness' the first two columns on that should tell you where for a certain ground-type like 'fertile low' the game will start looking in the table G-Harness_To_BGT so if 'fertile low' said 'ROCK' 'QUAL_LOW' then you can look that up in the other table and if it says something like 'gravel' then you can go the the 'vegetation_distribution' table and change the amount of forest/shrubs etc that appear in 'gravel' - however in the fertile low section of the SGT table you also have the gs fade-in, gs median and gs fade-out bias and std dev sections which will change the rate at which it varies between stuff in the G-harness table - so you might only be getting a little bit of gravel and then off into grass_short etc... which rather confuses things - as does having other climates adjacent on the strat-map, they won't pick up the other climates textures (from the non, odd/odd squares) but will pick up some elements of the other climates heights/bias/distribution etc.
    So, when looking at the temperate_deciduous_forest climate in the SGT_To_G-Hardness table and it says for FERTILE_LOW "SHALE" "QUAL_VERY_LOW" and I look these up in the G-Hardness_To_BGT table where it says "gravel", then "gravel" will be the "main" BGT in the fertile_low SGT? And the hs fade-in, hs median, hs fade-out, ... then control how other BGTS appear in that SGT? Do you know what each of these hs fade-in/out/median, gs fade-in/out/... do?
    edit: after heaving a first read through Muizers guide that seems to be kind of covered there, wow getting into all this stuff will take a while...
    Somewhere around I've got some textures with the resulting /sand/grass_short etc. names actually written on them which can be switched in for testing so you can spot easily what's turning up where - will try and find them and send...
    That would be welcome!
    Last edited by xHolyCrusader; July 07, 2016 at 10:21 AM.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •