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Thread: IWTE - Vegetation editing

  1. #21
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    I set up a directory within the IWTE called swamp_tree where I keep the milkshape model. This has a sub directory called textures where the TGA is kept. Do I need a different set up?
    According to the DOS window it recognizes the TGA's name but fails to recognize the file. Is it possible the TGA is messed up?



    You are right regarding the details of that particular model - I wasn't very happy with and used another one. Now I just have to figure out what is going wrong with the additional files.

    The weird thing is that in game I have the black squares again but the screenshot shows them all correctly.




    Edit: the TGA is 512*512, changing it to 256*256 and trying again.
    Edit2: nope, not even 128*128 did work - still the same error message
    Last edited by Gigantus; September 24, 2014 at 08:27 PM.










  2. #22

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    can you post the .tga and model please so I can have a look - the size of the tga applied to the model shouldn't matter - but it shouldn't be compressed and should have an alpha channel
    (it also should be a real .tga not a .tga.dds named dds)

  3. #23
    wilddog's Avatar Paintedwolves run free
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    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Hi, Gig - error means it recognized the TGA .. but couldn't read it as that version was only expecting a non compressed TGA. If you think its not compressed try opening it via the painter process and if that works then save as a TGA from there as that will svae it in uncompressed form. If the painter doesn't open it then I need to understand what is 'special about its format'.

    I'm hoping to release a new version early October (or late September) but having to finish off some DIY stuff at home at the moment.

  4. #24
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    It will be compressed I believe - GIMP does that automatically.

    Just checked - after saving it uncompressed and using the converter there were no error messages. Looks like it was the culprit (better mention it in the tutorial). Now let me check in game.

    Nope, still the same problem.

    Edit: a quick question - there are two options to create the model from ms3d. Keep and Create normals, how do I know which one to choose?

    Attached the Milkshape file and texture for it. The TGA file is now uncompressed.
    Last edited by Gigantus; September 25, 2014 at 05:37 AM.










  5. #25
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Does this meens that we could actually coppy RSII enviroment/vegetation to M2TW engine?
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  6. #26

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    It will be compressed I believe - GIMP does that automatically.

    Just checked - after saving it uncompressed and using the converter there were no error messages. Looks like it was the culprit (better mention it in the tutorial). Now let me check in game.

    Nope, still the same problem.
    will either change the tutorial - or WD might update next version to handle compressed files in... (compressed out is a different issue and probably won't happen)

    not sure why it's not working in game - if it doesn't find the sprite or one of the textures I think it crashes - maybe your conversion process from tga? Can you use the nvidia dds converter? and either IWTE's or Alpaca's dds to texture converter...
    whatever you do don't change the image size of the sprite textures!

    Edit: a quick question - there are two options to create the model from ms3d. Keep and Create normals, how do I know which one to choose?
    It won't make much difference with that model as it is currently... you'll get roughly the same thing. To get a good effect in game you need to do the process I described above
    create any flat planes as single sided planes in milkshape - duplicate them - reverse the vertex order on the duplicate (so you now have a two sided version) - 'weld all' in milkshape and use the "From ms3d/Create normals" button to create the vegemodel... that sorts some of the lighting problems. I'll try and write that up properly later, but need to re-install ms3d first, am still trying to fix computer after a complete re-format last week!
    in your case select all the flat planes (everything apart from the trunk), temporarily make them into a separate group, hide the trunk, select the flat planes, duplicate them, reverse the vertex order on the duplicate, re-group it with the rest of the flat stuff and 'weld all' - then use the Create normals button...

    actually you might as well always use the 'create normals' button unless you've designed something in 3dsMax with explicit normals or very complex smoothing...

    below you can see the difference in the norm.tga that's generated from the original model (top) and the amended model (bottom)
    the top version will be lit like that in game with extremes of light and shade on the 'branches' - which is not a good look...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	welded.jpg 
Views:	417 
Size:	89.2 KB 
ID:	314585

    revised model also attached date_palm_welded.zip

    try that and nvidia based dds creation and see how that goes... if you're still getting black squares can you send me all the finished bits, DB, vegemodel and texture and the sprite and it's textures

    @AnthoniusII
    yes - if someone wants to go through this sort of process for each of their trees and figure out which climates to assign them to in M2 and do an ammended DB file.

  7. #27
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    in your case select all the flat planes (everything apart from the trunk), temporarily make them into a separate group, hide the trunk, select the flat planes, duplicate them, reverse the vertex order on the duplicate, re-group it with the rest of the flat stuff and 'weld all' - then use the Create normals button...
    Considering what I know about 3D modelling you might as well have spoken Chinese.
    The set up in my sprite tutorial uses alpaca's dds-texture converter and this tga-dds converter. But that's for mass converting battle unit sprites, for one or two graphics I use GIMP.
    I'll try your upload and report back.

    Edit: the norm sprite definitely looks smoother now - but the black squares remain. I have attached all my generated files (TGA-DDS via GIMP) plus that tutorial converter set up.
    Last edited by Gigantus; September 25, 2014 at 11:32 AM.










  8. #28

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Converter should work - but I think you need DXT5 for the 'diff' version, and DXT1 (the first one in the list) for the 'norm' version - and don't create mipmaps for either.

    really not sure what GIMP does to things...

  9. #29
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    I'll try this DDS conversion.

    Edit: no luck, still squares
    Last edited by Gigantus; September 25, 2014 at 11:44 AM.










  10. #30

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    can you post me all the bits then please - vege_model, texture, sprite, and it's 2 textures, veg.db file

  11. #31
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    The edit in post #27 contains all the stuff (I think).










  12. #32

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    hmmm, well you needed to use the 'create normals' button to make the vege_model from my version of the ms3d, but actually despite having bad lighting your sprite textures actually work for me without black boxes

    have re-done the model and sprite here; date_palm.zip
    which should just paste into the vegetation folder.

    can only think it's something to do with the .db file (you didn't send that) or that one of the files actually isn't in the right place in your folder.

  13. #33
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    I haven't generated neither DB file as this is the model name of a vanilla tree, merely the texture file has a different name.

    My file placements:

    vege_model - ...\data\vegetation\models
    model texture - ...\data\vegetation\models\textures
    vege_sprite - ...\data\vegetation\sprites
    diff texture* - ...\data\vegetation\sprites\diffuse_maps
    norm texture* - ...\data\vegetation\sprites\normal_maps

    Edit:
    * 'diff' and 'norm' part removed - I am such a twit!!! I saw that the vanilla files didn't have that extension and removed it assuming that they had the norm and diff part because they got generated into the same folder, got confused by the 'Components needed...' section. Mea culpa, mea stupid culpa.

    Issue solved. Thanks a lot for the patience.


    Edit2:
    I did the whole model stuff from scratch (create normals), using my original model. Although the 'norm' sprite wasn't as smooth as the one from your model I did not have any noticeable transition from sprite to full model when approaching a tree (usually you have a little jerk). I used the DTX5 setting in the converter without any other option for both sprites. Tried the same converter setting for the model's texture and the results were fine as well - means the TGAs can be converted in one sitting with the converter.

    Question: is it really necessary to have the 'new' extension for the actual sprite file? Or the ms3d extension for the converted veg model? Both need to be removed before copying (or generating the sprites).
    Last edited by Gigantus; September 25, 2014 at 10:15 PM.










  14. #34
    wilddog's Avatar Paintedwolves run free
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    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Hi Gig, a couple of things.

    First the TGA bit I'll amend to read the compressed TGA as I do it already for the painter process. (There are a few bits in IWTE that I need to catch up on newer processes. The compressed read is slower though.
    Regarding adding 'new' to names it was only to prevent over writing but I'll likely add them into the IWTE save directory with the original names as that's more consistent with the newer IWTE processes. I need to check out any converter back to DDS as that's the bit I am missing in order to convert anything back to textures in one hit.

    Separately wanting to finally get back to adding in the strat map TGA's/HGT to the painter process.

  15. #35

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    Edit:
    * 'diff' and 'norm' part removed - I am such a twit!!! I saw that the vanilla files didn't have that extension and removed it assuming that they had the norm and diff part because they got generated into the same folder, got confused by the 'Components needed...' section. Mea culpa, mea stupid culpa.

    Issue solved. Thanks a lot for the patience.
    ahhh, well I'm guilty as well - I thought that would just cause a crash - and yeah it was changed to make it possible to have the tga's in the same folder, but WD also changed the sprite to match (the file names are in that)

    Edit2:
    I did the whole model stuff from scratch (create normals), using my original model. Although the 'norm' sprite wasn't as smooth as the one from your model I did not have any noticeable transition from sprite to full model when approaching a tree (usually you have a little jerk). I used the DTX5 setting in the converter without any other option for both sprites. Tried the same converter setting for the model's texture and the results were fine as well - means the TGAs can be converted in one sitting with the converter.
    OK, well the sprite will match the model whatever the model normals are like, the sprite generation process is sort of like screenshotting the model at various angles...

    But the way that _norm.tga looks is a good clue to how the model will end up being lit in the game, have a critical look at the model in game, looking at things like does the 'shadow' side actually look in shadow, the problem with single surface planes is they show the same lighting both sides so you'll tend to get one 'branch' very bright, and one very dark, neither of which relates to the way you'd actually expect the light to fall.

    I can do a walk-through of that conversion process in milkshape, if you don't mind me using your model as an example (?)
    things like 'reverse vertex order' aren't scary it's just a matter of clicking that menu button.



    I'll try and clarify a few things in the tutorial anyway, thanks for the feedback.

  16. #36
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    I can do a walk-through of that conversion process in milkshape, if you don't mind me using your model as an example (?)
    things like 'reverse vertex order' aren't scary it's just a matter of clicking that menu button.
    I would like that very much - I am trying to get into modelling and eventually into the whole IWTE affair, it bothers me to no end that I have those great Chinese town models and they all have indestructible walls and stuff like that.










  17. #37
    wilddog's Avatar Paintedwolves run free
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    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    In next version you will just need the texture file and the sprite will be generated from that. resulting files sprite and the two TGA files will be in IWTEsave directory. Only need to sort out if I can convert the TGA back to DDS (DDS to texture is straight forward).

  18. #38

    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    I would like that very much - I am trying to get into modelling and eventually into the whole IWTE affair, it bothers me to no end that I have those great Chinese town models and they all have indestructible walls and stuff like that.
    2nd post now has tutorial about fixing RTW style models. I'll update stuff about file types/names/locations when WD has issued next version

    Re: walls, you can have desctructible walls which just switch between damaged states without having animations (we gave up on getting new animations re-packed) - but even without animating, creating convincing looking damaged states is quite a nasty bit of 3d modelling... I haven't attempted that on any of our stuff yet, am so far just trying a squished version of the existing wider walls with slightly amended battlements

  19. #39
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    I'll give it a go to convert the RTW cas files directly with ITWE and then 'fix' them - it certainly makes a big difference looking at the comparison ingame screenshot.










  20. #40
    paradamed's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: IWTE - Vegetation editing

    Hey Mak, could you give me a tip on how to reduce flickering from too dense vegetation. I noticed that if I increase the density the vegetation will flicker depending on the distance and some trees may also disappear depending on the distance from them. Any way to solve this problem? I also noticed another problem. Custom tiles tend to disappear in the battle map when the vegetation is too dense, I believe. I noticed this when changing the vegetation in TATW, rammas echor would disappear. Any way to fix this pls?

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