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Thread: Letter from Emperor Meiji to Sultan Abdulhamit II

  1. #1
    Nizam's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Icon7 Letter from Emperor Meiji to Sultan Abdulhamit II

    The friendshipt letter from Japan Emperor Meiji to Ottoman Sultan Abdulhamid II, 10 May 1888

    Could anyone translate this from Japanese to English?


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  2. #2

    Default Re: Letter from Emperor Meiji to Sultan Abdulhamit II

    I can't translate this letter, but I have a partial translation of a letter from Emperor Menji to Sultan Abdulhamid - probably this one, as I doubt they were writing very often

    "each one of us is an Oriental king, and it is in our interest and the interest of our people to get acquainted, to establish friendly relations, and to promote cooperation vis-a-vis the Western states and peoples, who view as as one and the same. I see the Western people send missionaries to our country, evangelizing their religion because of the religious freedom we have. I see that you do not do the same. I would like you to send us preachers to evangelize for your religion (Islam), who can serve as an implicit moral link between you and us."

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    Default Re: Letter from Emperor Meiji to Sultan Abdulhamit II

    My alt-history sense is tingling... Japanese intervention in the Crimean War on behalf of the Ottoman Empire, or in World War 1...

    This is fun stuff.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Letter from Emperor Meiji to Sultan Abdulhamit II

    Japan wasn't Imperial by the time of the Crimean war. It also participated in World War I, and in an odd way helped avenge Turkey by winning the Russo-Jap war.




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    Default Re: Letter from Emperor Meiji to Sultan Abdulhamit II

    Ah, I was off by a decade on the Crimean War *facepalm.* And yeah, they did participate in World War I- on the entente side. Things would've been much more interesting if they'd entered as an Ottoman ally- they could've been laying siege to Hong Kong, Vladivostok, and Manila instead of Qingdao and a few islands. Just an interesting hypothetical.

  6. #6
    hochmeister devin's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Letter from Emperor Meiji to Sultan Abdulhamit II

    They were allied to the brtish before they would be even friendly to the ottomans so i dont see why theyd break there oldest ally.
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    Default Re: Letter from Emperor Meiji to Sultan Abdulhamit II

    The first Anglo-Japanese Alliance was established in 1902 and officially ended in 1923. Not exactly a long run, there. I'm thinking of a tangent where Japan and Turkey had strong relations as early as 1880, well in advance of their historical alliance with the United Kingdom.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Letter from Emperor Meiji to Sultan Abdulhamit II

    Quote Originally Posted by O'Hea View Post
    The first Anglo-Japanese Alliance was established in 1902 and officially ended in 1923. Not exactly a long run, there. I'm thinking of a tangent where Japan and Turkey had strong relations as early as 1880, well in advance of their historical alliance with the United Kingdom.
    Historically speaking they were rather interested in creating relations instead of having "strong realtions" and it actually took quite a while before something more solid could be established. Turkey assumed that any treaty they'll sign with Japan should be on equal grounds, when for Japan it was impossible to sign such treaty with Asian country and not include extraterritorial rights for prestige reasons, as they viewed themselves in leadership role in Asia. They could not come to any agreement until 1923, when Lausanne Treaty was signed.
    Last edited by BullGod; December 06, 2012 at 12:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Letter from Emperor Meiji to Sultan Abdulhamit II

    Alternate History: In a strange twist of events they discover the Ottomans and make an alliance with Suleiman the Magnificent, Selim II and Murad III, they help Nobunaga to conquer Japan and modernize the Japanese fleet so that it contains galleons as well as supply him to conquer Japan. The Ottomans then outmaneuvre the Spanish and make a military alliance with Japan and do not demand the Japanese convert to Islam. This of course makes the Ottomans more favorable than the Italians, Spaniards or Portuguese but of course many Muslims go to Japan and many convert to Islam. The Ottomans, French, Japanese, Dutch and English eventually make an alliance to undermine Spanish and Portuguese colonies in the east so that Japan invades Indonesia and the Philippines. When the Ottomans go to Aceh they are accompanied by the Japanese in order to make Aceh a protectorate and to defeat the Portuguese. Eventually the Japanese join the Thirty Years' war on the protestant side and raid the Catholic fleets in the Indian ocean.
    That's all I thought to .

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  10. #10

    Default Re: Letter from Emperor Meiji to Sultan Abdulhamit II

    WW1 could start with the Russo-Japanese War. France had an alliance with Russia that if two or more powers attack either one, they join in. The Anglo-Japanese alliance had the same clause.
    Japan and Russia engage in war, the surprise attack on port Arthur fails. It cripples Russia, but not as bad as it did in our history. The Japanese fleet also suffers heavy loses. Japan fears a full scale invasion from Russia, and contacts the Ottomans to hold off the Baltic fleet. The Ottoman navy of course isn't up to the task but the Ottomans under the Young Turks mobilize but do not attack knowing that this will bring on war with France. However Russian spies bring word of a Japanese-Ottoman alliance, the Russians panic and attacks the Ottomans in an effort to get the first punch. Now France is obligated to fight as is Britain.
    Something like that. It isn't a perfect narrative, but I think something could be made off it.

    The problem is a Japanese-Ottoman-British alliance would probably drag Germany and Austria-Hungary on to their side more than a Franco-Russian alliance would. And the former would be powerful enough to crush the later, so the war wouldn't be as epic as WW1 in our time.
    Although France and Britain both had huge colonies which could make the war truly global. Perhaps China and the US side with the Franco-Russian alliance. Russia promising China they'd get Korea and the Ryukyu. I don't know what motivation the US would have in joining.

    *edit: It could be that Japan and Britain basically lock up the Pacific and Atlantic, which effect the US economy. The US was trading with China and France, the pan-Oceanic blockade effects the US economy. Roosevelt doesn't stand for it, and gives the Allied powers an ultimatum, and particularly Roosevelt see a strong Japan as bad for US interests in Asia and the Pacific.
    Last edited by rekishiotaku; December 09, 2012 at 12:08 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Letter from Emperor Meiji to Sultan Abdulhamit II

    Well both France and Germany backed Russia in the Japanese-Russian war, it was only the threat of the British that kept them in the sidelines.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Letter from Emperor Meiji to Sultan Abdulhamit II

    I see that you do not do the same. I would like you to send us preachers to evangelize for your religion

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