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Thread: "All under one Sun"

  1. #1

    Default "All under one Sun"

    what do you think of this? the saying comes from motion picture "Hero". it is meant to denote that split countries and separatist nations should all become one in favor of a strong united state... maybe this thread should be in a Political Mudpit, but I place it here due to more civilized discussion and because I would like to know your opinion on a more historical side of this matter. ie do you think that most countries that have been incorporated into big empires lost (in a way of culture, economics, ppl etc) or gained something. :hmmm:

  2. #2

    Default Re: "All under one Sun"

    I can think of one, stability.

    I think, for example, Germany as one state instead of dozens if not more probably makes it a more stable region.

    They were all of a simular culture and religion though.
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  3. #3
    imthefrgt10's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: "All under one Sun"

    if u want a large empire and keep its culture, you need to have something like the U.S. and have small states within the country, otherwise everything would mix or there would be civil ars between some cultures


    <HonorGlory> You weren't here when the deal between me and Octavian took place.
    <Aristocrat> deal?
    <Aristocrat> Ill leave that alone actually
    <Evariste> No I wasn't. Corrupt bargain eh? Maybe it's better to leave the past in the past.

  4. #4

    Default Re: "All under one Sun"

    yes... hmmm... lets put this question more upside down... I agree on this when talking about cases like Germany pre Oto Bismark or China, or USA under civil war, or France pre Luis XII. but what you say when those empires try to put their "Sun" over different nations' heads?

  5. #5
    Odovacar's Avatar I am with Europe!
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    Default Re: "All under one Sun"

    THe result is either total disaster, or initial success and then total disaster
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB HORSEARCHER
    quis enim dubitat quin multis iam saeculis, ex quo vires illius ad Romanorum nomen accesserint, Italia quidem sit gentium domina gloriae vetustate sed Pannonia virtute

    Sorry Armenia, for the rascals who lead us.


  6. #6

    Default Re: "All under one Sun"

    yes but what about Roman empire? it brough some civilization to Germans... hmm Gauls... (just saying this to keep discussion, I still believe all nations would have been far better off by their own)

  7. #7

    Default Re: "All under one Sun"

    Well in this regard what do you think about Spain's desicion to give Catalonia de facto independence status, as far as I know, thier powers go even further than the autonomy granted to the US states or Canada, I think that the PSOE's move to just allow the Balkanization of Spain may not be a good move, as a united Spain has more diplomatic and military clout than a Catalan republic, a Basque republic, and a consolidated Spain possibly dominated by Castille. I think that considering Spain's long and fascinating history, a united Spain is something that should not be thrown away so quickly, so is the "Lincolnian" way of dealing with separatism simply unnaceptable in the world right now?
    Last edited by ren0312; August 04, 2006 at 04:29 AM.

  8. #8
    imthefrgt10's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: "All under one Sun"

    Quote Originally Posted by Giurza
    yes but what about Roman empire? it brough some civilization to Germans... hmm Gauls... (just saying this to keep discussion, I still believe all nations would have been far better off by their own)
    yes, but completely lost it all and a major rift still shows from that loss!


    <HonorGlory> You weren't here when the deal between me and Octavian took place.
    <Aristocrat> deal?
    <Aristocrat> Ill leave that alone actually
    <Evariste> No I wasn't. Corrupt bargain eh? Maybe it's better to leave the past in the past.

  9. #9

    Default Re: "All under one Sun"

    hmmm very interresting... do you have any links on this? I had no clue about political status in Spain. plz direct me to some info

    as to civ brought to Germans and others in Europe by the Romans... I wouldn't say that it was all lost, actually the whole european culture is more or less based on Roman culture, mostly due to Roman inheritance of Catholic church...
    Last edited by Giurza; August 04, 2006 at 04:35 AM.

  10. #10
    Odovacar's Avatar I am with Europe!
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    Default Re: "All under one Sun"

    Well, romans brought different tribes under one empire, and tried to romanize them. However, it was not ntirely successfull. Celts learned latin language, but they had an accent, and at the end of the empire they could be distuingished from latins.
    Germanic tribes were even less romanized. After the romans gone, much of the empire remained, but most were lost.
    By the XIX century, with the rise of historical conciousnes, centralised states, press, secular culture 'nations' were born.
    Nations, unlike tribes have strong personal identity,m coming from common language, literary tradition, and constitutial legacy.
    Nations are united the quarelling tribes, and centralized the country to some degree. Nations are hard to conquer, and impossible to entirely subjugate.
    India, Africa under imperialist rule had no nations, just tribes, small states and cities. Therefore they could be subjugated. But later, when nations emerged, they broke free.
    You, as a lithvanian, know that nations will not bow before an empire. Under soviet rule baltic nations, and others were yet nations, waiting for an independent country.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB HORSEARCHER
    quis enim dubitat quin multis iam saeculis, ex quo vires illius ad Romanorum nomen accesserint, Italia quidem sit gentium domina gloriae vetustate sed Pannonia virtute

    Sorry Armenia, for the rascals who lead us.


  11. #11

    Default Re: "All under one Sun"

    true, true... but what about the economical stability (just playing my part in discussion, I am convinced anti imperialist), and also some form of political safety feeling when you are joining, or at least annexd by the strong empire?

  12. #12

    Default Re: "All under one Sun"

    Quote Originally Posted by Giurza
    hmmm very interresting... do you have any links on this? I had no clue about political status in Spain. plz direct me to some info

    as to civ brought to Germans and others in Europe by the Romans... I wouldn't say that it was all lost, actually the whole european culture is more or less based on Roman culture, mostly due to Roman inheritance of Catholic church...
    I think the situation in Spain rught now is that the PSOE is pretty much giving to separatist demands in Catalonia and the Basque region without much resistance on the part of the PSOE, I think that separatism is something that must not be taken rightly, and a state must only give in to separatist demands when all options have been proven to be unworkable in keeping the separatists in check, in including the use of military force, although if the situation is reduced to a stalemate with neither side able to to win a desicive victory over one another, then a compromise by the central government may be the only choice left and must be considered.

  13. #13

    Default Re: "All under one Sun"

    Hero, great movie. I think it's better translated as "All under Heaven" though. Anyway, people with the same backround, i.e. culture, history, language, etc., should be united, provided they want to be. If you have a country with different kinds of people in it, than more often than not you have to use force to bring them together.
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