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Thread: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

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    Diodredai's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland



    Greetings loyal DotS fans!

    It is my great honor to present to you our first preview series centered on Europe titled 'At the heart and the ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland!'.

    'In the year of our lord 1335, close to the time of St. Martin's Day, John, King of Bohemia; his son, Charles and the King of Poland [Casimir III] came to Hungary to visit King Charles of Hungary at Visegrád castle so they could form an eternal pact of peace. [...] They decided here that if any one of these Kings, their Kingdoms and lands would be attacked by any foe, the rest would rush to his aid. And thus was this great pact was formed.'

    ~ An excerpt from the chronicle of Johannes Thuróczy

    The first Congress of Visegrád was a 1335 summit in Visegrád in which Casimir III of Poland, Charles I of Hungary, and John I of Bohemia formed an anti-Habsburg alliance. John gave up his claims to the Polish throne in exchange for 20,000 Prague groschen and the recognition of his suzerainty over Silesia. Ironically barely three centuries later these nations would be joined yet again, however this time in chains as occupied regions under Habsburg rule.

    But what is the shared history of these regions that makes them so special for us that we would decide to do a preview together?

    Could it be that these nations shielded Europe from invasions originating from the south and east of Europe?

    Hilariously, a mere two hundred years before the start of DotS, Hungary was regarded as the 'scourge of western Europe', as Hungary acted as the 'police of Europe', by engaging in military interventions and campaigns throughout Europe (as far south as Constantinople, and as far west as Iberia), but by the 13th century, it would become alongside Bohemia and Poland the 'bastion and shield of Christianity'.

    We, Europeans have a lot to thank the brave Poles, Czechs and Magyars throughout the middle ages, as these three nations defended Europe from the Mongol onslaught, and they even broke the advance of the Ottoman Empire here, in the heart of Europe. But nay, this isn't the reason either.

    Naturally, like all bordering nations we have Kings, Princes, Princessess, historians, artists, musicians, chroniclers, and other historical characters that form a bridge between these peoples - not to mention that according to the latest genetic studies the Magyars and Poles originate from the same ancestor some 10,000 years ago- but alas that is not the reason either.

    Could it be that these three nations became a single state during the Middle Ages? It is true that Poland and Hungary joined for brief, albeit glorious union from 1370 to 1382 and again in the 15th century during the reign of Wladyslaw III but Bohemia was not a part of either of these unions.

    Nope, we were driven by a single motive: historical accuracy.
    Just for old times sake take a look at how these nations were represented in vanilla MTW2. If you know anything about the history of these nations surely you were apalled to see the grand distortions and major historical errors in the original vanilla game (not to mention the absence of Bohemia as a faction) such as Hussars for Poland (even though the Polish Winged hussars were famous, the Hussar warfare style originated from southern Hungary/modern day Serbia not Poland), Battlefield (Ninja) Assassins (!) for Hungary and countless other minor errors such as Bran castle (the home of count Dracula) as the capital for Transylvania.

    We, the members of DotS have worked countless hours to correct these mistakes and finally present to you, the international fanbase with a historically accurate depiction of how Central Europe really looked like in the Middle Ages.

    So without further adue, let us visit the first stop on our grand journey through Central Europe starting at the mountain pass of Verecke, the gateway into Central Europe and let us venture into the forests of Transylvania!

    Here is a list of links that brings you directly to the various previews that have been posted in this thread:

    Preview #1: Through the forest - Transylvania
    Preview #2: The heart of Carpathia - Pannonia - COMING SOON TO A FORUM THREAD NEAR YOU!
    Preview #3: NOT YET ANNOUNCED - COMING SOON TO A FORUM THREAD NEAR YOU!

    DISCLAIMER: All previewed materials including PSF names, ownership, borders and other elements of the mod are subject to continious change. This preview is by no means representing the final product - we only wish to provide you our loyal fanbase a bit of insight into our work.

    DISCLAIMER #1:
    We are aware that there is a small border issue regarding northern Transylvania. We will correct the mistake and update all screenshots as soon as we make the adjustment.

    Please stay tuned for future episodes!

    'Til next we meet!

    Cheers,
    Diodredai alias Dénes Nagy
    Dominion of the Sword
    Magyar department head
    Last edited by Diodredai; December 04, 2012 at 04:29 AM.

    Creator of the Unoffical DotS FAQ thread
    "Sagittis hungarorum libera nos Domine" (translation: "Lord save us from the arrows of the Hungarians")
    Creator of the Share your musical heritage! thread in the DotS forums

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    Diodredai's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland



    Through the forest...

    Transsilvanae (Erdőelve):

    The latin chroniclers of the middle ages referred to this land as "terra ultra silvam" (the lands through the forest) or "Partes Transsylvana" (the parts through the forest) and it would seem that the forests of this land inspired the name used by the natives themselves: Erdőelve (archaic Hungarian: through the forest) But were these lands so barren and densely forested that the only prominent features in the minds of the chroniclers and travellers who passed through these parts were the tall trees that dotted the landscape of Transylvania? Or perhaps one must venture through the forest to find the riches hidden at the heart of these mystical lands?

    In 1080 AD these lands are firmly under the control of the Kingdom of Hungary, with the city of Gyulafehérvár acting as the de facto capital of the region. The densely forested areas of the time were home to the native Szeklers (Székelyek), who provided military aid to the Magyars that had taken possession of the entire Carpathian basin by 896 AD. Transylvania has been inhabited since ancient times by an innumerable number of different peoples arriving from (or migrating toward) the steppe such as: the Scythians, the Celts, the Huns, the Avars and most recently, the Magyars. This region has always been a gateway between Central Europe and the rest of the world - and being the doorway to and from Europe shaped the fate of this region in many ways.

    Isten hozott titeket Erdélyben! [Welcome to Transylvania!]

    Geography and agriculture:

    The most iconic feature of Transylvania is undoubtedly the Carpathian mountain range, its great snow-capped peaks and the untouched valleys, forests, lakes and rivers below them dominating the horizon. The main rivers that flow through Transylvania are the Maros, Szamos, Körös and Olt rivers. In terms of trade, the most important two of these are without a doubt the rivers Maros and Szamos. Not only is the capital, Gyulafehérvár situated on the river Maros, but the important commercial hubs of Székelyvásárhely, Déva, Arad [Hungary proper] and Szeged [also located in Hungary proper] are also located on the river. The importance of the river Szamos on the other hand, grew immensely due to the flourishing salt trade in Transylvania. The mining and trade of salt in Transylvania was extremely important. Beyond satisfying internal needs, by the 12th century salt began to be exported to Moravia, the Holy Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, and of course to Hungary proper. The two main centres of salt production were Dés and Torda. At the confluence of the rivers Nagy- and Kis-Szamos, Dés was situated at a neigh perfect location to collect all the goods from the nearby salt mines (for example Désakna), as these were shipped downstream from those rivers, where Dés lay. The rights to mine salt were exclusive to the Royal crown, thus granting the King a monopoly. To oversee the production and trade of salt, a bureau was created called the Chamber of Salt. These men organized the trade, transportation and storage of the salt mined in Transylvania. This bureau was centered in Szolnok vármegye (an administrative county within the Kingdom of Hungary). The method of transportation was quite ingenius: the salt, which was mined in the inner and outer reaches of Szolnok vármegye, was transported on the rivers Szamos and Tisza all the way to the Alföld (the greater Hungarian plain located in Hungary proper) to the city of Szolnok (which was also the center of the aforementioned vármegye), the center of salt distribution. Salt was transported both on boats and on land from Dés to Szolnok, to minimise losses made from the occasional sunken boat. From the 11th century onward the term 'Salt trade route' was in existence, the route being the area starting from Dés which would connect it with Szolnok by traversing the regions known as Szilágyság and Tiszántúl. Other noteable salt collection centers were the towns of Tokaj (home of the renowned wine) and Szeged. The techniques used for mining the salt in Transylvania were exemplary, as the miners who worked there were invited to work on creating the famous Wielickza mine located near Krakow in the 13th century (this was the largest salt mine in Poland until it was shut down in 2007).

    The flora and landscape of Transylvania at the start of the Dominion of the Sword timeline can be explained in two words: dense forests. Entire areas were uninhabited even by the end of the 14th century due to the largely forested areas.
    The western borders of Transylvania were covered by forests and swamps, dominantly consisting of oak trees, which made the area extremely hard to traverse. As we travel inwards towards the mountains and hills of Transylvania, we find native trees that grow only in the Carpathian basin called 'Kocsányos tölgy', 'Cser' and 'Magyartölgy'. All of these are extremely sturdy versions of the oak, that were applied in the construction of various things, such as houses, boats and most importantly: bows. In the centre of Transylvania we find different forests that cover extremely large areas, varyingly dominated by either oak or beech.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




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    The issue with Timber being a traded commodity is the fact that the only truly peaceful region bordering Transylvania throughout the middle ages was Hungary proper. On all other sides the region was bordered by hostile peoples who had little interest in trade. First the Pechenegs, and then the Cumans, followed by the Wallachians and Moldavians in their rebellion against the Hungarian state, which had commanded the establishment of the voivodeships of Moldavia and Wallachia. Timber however, was most definitely exported to Hungary proper and used for construction in areas such as the Alföld where nearly the entire region had been deforested, and for shipbuilding.

    In the mountainous areas, only three forms of livestock could withstand the cold and the hard terrain: cattle, sheep and goats. With the forests teaming with wildlife ranging from stags to birds on the ground and various sizes of fish in the lakes, rivers and ponds scattered throughout Transylvania, it must have been paradise on earth. According to documents, more than 15 large butcher's shops worked throughout Transylvania, with the amount of cattle being cut down a year reaching the figure of 1700 per butcher's shop in the 13th century. With Hungary being the largest exporter of livestock in Europe throughout the middle ages, Transylvania wasn't left out of the loop. Documents show that specifically Transylvanian cattle was carried as far away as Venice and Nürnberg, but the main destination for Transylvanian cattle were the Polish markets to the north of Hungary.

    Regarding agriculture, the most fertile region in Transylvania is the Mezőség. The name itself ('Mezőség') means 'Field-lands'. In essence this was the only region with a suitable climate and fertile soil necessary for agricultural development, therefore the agricultural importance of Transylvania (compared to other, nearby, incredibly fertile regions such as Hungary proper) was rather negligible.

    Mining in Transylvania, besides that of salt, was also quite important. The main production centres were Torockó and Vajdahunyad, two iron smelting centers which have been continuously inhabited and used since the Roman ages. Gold mining was also present in Transylvania, with Saxon master miners being invited to settle in the 'Aranyosbánya' region which literally means 'Golden mines'.

    Regarding the overall wealth of the region, it is quite hard to compare Transylvania to any region located in Europe. Since the various ethnic groups governed themselves autonomously therefore the disparity between the various areas of Transylvania is quite high. The Saxons were mostly concentrated in the larger towns and cities, with the only communities living in smaller towns and villages being miners. The Szeklers on the other hand, lived in the great outdoors, as most of them were in the cattle trading business. This somewhat held back the urbanization of the Szeklers as usually the various clans and larger families lived in villages and communities surrounded by their lands where they grazed their livestock and horse studs. It was nonetheless an extremely free part of Europe, with serfdom existing only in regions inhabited by the Magyars. As stated before, the primary products of Transylvania were cattle and salt, of which it was an internationally known producer.

    Screenshots:
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    Demography and politics:

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    Following the establishment of the medieval Hungarian state, the first Hungarian King, St. Stephen, broke up the Carpathian basin into several semi-autonomous regions where a governor [a 'Vajda' (Voivode) or a 'Bán' (Ban)] was appointed by the King to tend to the administrative duties, and to organize the armed forces of these regions. Transylvania was one such a region. Therefore the capital of the region was where the Voivode's seat of power was located: Gyulafehérvár. Beyond being the administrative capital of the region, the city also served as the centre of the Transylvanian Catholic bishopric. However, beyond these features Gyulafehérvár could have been any city in Central Europe. The real uniqueness of Transylvania lays in its ethnic diversity.

    The Szeklers

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    As mentioned before, the Magyars who arrived to take the Carpathian basin into their possession in 896 found allies in the native Szeklers, who in exchange for retaining their autonomy would provide the Hungarian state with military aid. Regarding the Szeklers themselves, to this day the scientific community is not settled on their origin. The theories range from them being the remnants of the Scythians; the Huns; the Avars; Bulgars; and proto-Magyars who arrived during the reign of the Avars in the Carpathian basin. We are certain about several facts however:
    1. The Szeklers lived in an autonomous state, where each and every member of the Szekler nation was free and equal. In exchange for mandatory military service for the male population, they were granted special rights by the state that were equivalent to that of western European nobility: exemption from taxes (with the exception of the "Cattle tax", which was presented to the royal court when a new king was elected, or when a royal heir was born) and the right to choose their own administrators and judges, etc. Led by the Székely Ispán (Count of the Szeklers) in battle, all contemporary chronicles regard them as the finest warriors of Transylvania.
    2. Each and every member of the Szekler nation was literate: they had a special form of runic writing called 'Rovás'. The widespread usage of this alphabet can be proven by examining the vast number of archaeological evidence and most surprisingly, the engravings on the walls of Franciscan and catholic churches located in Szekler domains, where certain passages from the bible were written in Rovás for the common folk to understand the meaning behind the sacred words.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    3. It is unknown when exactly the Szeklers converted to Catholicism, but they were regarded as one of the most devoutly Christian groups in all of Transylvania. Some scholars point to the similarity of the ancient Szekler religion to certain aspects of Christianity, such as the 'Boldogasszony' (Happy woman) being the equivalent of the Virgin Mary: therefore assimiliation was much easier compared to other peoples who had deep rooted animist or shamanistic religions in the Carpathian basin.

    In fact, Saint Ladislaus (who is the reigning King of Hungary at the start of DotS) had an entire cult of worship in Transylvania - him being the patron saint of the Szekler peoples.
    In the spoiler below you may witness on such mural dedicated to King Ladislaus.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The sequence of the events portrayed is generally similar all over the churches in medieval Hungary.
    1. Saint Ladislaus riding his horse in the battlefield catches sight of a pagan warrior holding a Hungarian girl in his saddle.
    2. Saint Ladislaus begins to pursue him.
    3.In the last metres before Saint Ladislaus could reach the pagan to stab him, he could not catch up to him
    4. Saint Ladislaus shouts to the girl: "Catch hold of the pagan at his belt and jump to the ground!"
    5. The girl does so, and the two warriors, the king and the pagan, begin wrestling.
    6. Saint Ladislaus can not subdue him, therefore the girl helps the king. She cuts the pagan's Achilles tendon.
    7. Saint Ladislaus beheads the pagan with the help of the girl.
    8. In the last scene Saint Ladislaus is resting in the arms of the girl.
    ~ Mural in the Székelyderzs (Dârjiu) Unitarian Church, Romania. Painted in 1419 by Ungi István fia, Pál mester (Stephen Ung, son of Master Paul).



    On the campaign map, you may command the Szeklers forces in battle, as well as directly influence the life of the Szeklers in Transylvania via our elaborately designed 'Szekler' tech tree. In the following screenshot you may inspect the home of the Szekler people: Székelyföld!

    Székelyföld:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Székelyföld (latin:. terra Siculorum eng:. Land of the Szeklers) is the name used for the territory in Transylvania inhabited solely by the Szeklers. Settlement of the populace and the division of land was dependent on the ancient Szekler clan system: each member of the Szekler nation was a part of a "nem" or clan, therefore the various "nemek" (the plural form of clan) settled close to each other. The Szeklers were allowed to govern this area in accordance with their ancient laws, as their judicial systems were more or less the same as the Hungarian tribal system used during the Principality period, instead of the new judicial system established to suit the needs of the feudalistic and catholic Kingdom of Hungary. The land itself was divided amongst the clans, the various clans therefore owning the lands granted to them collectively. As such, if you were a member of a clan, you could hunt in the forests, fish in the lakes, rivers and graze your cattle freely in the lands owned by your clan without any restrictions that applied to the members of the feudalistic Hungarian state, as usually forests, lakes and rivers were owned either by the King or the nobility. Although this granting of land would allow the Szeklers to start growing crops of their own, the majority of the Szeklers are still practising pastoralism.

    The Szekler cities that you may see on the in-game map are: Kézdi, Szereda, Szentmiklós, Székelyvásárhely and the capital of the Szeklers: Székelyudvarhely. Each of these settlements is the capital of a 'Székely Székek' or Szekler Seat(s), which is a special autonomous administrative county populated exclusively by Székely people. The military duties of the Szék's were organized by the "Szék Kapitányok", or the Captains of the Széks. Their duties included the organization of the military forces provided by the Széks, checking their equipment and creating a census of those men eligible for military service. The judicial cases were debated in the "Székgyűlés" or the gathering of the seats, (hence why these counties were called seats) organized within a Szék. The members of these gatherings were: the Captain of the Szék, the Székbíró (the sheriff of the Szék), the Királybíró (A royally appointed sheriff) and twelve members who made up the jury. The Szék's also took part in the political matters of their province and the state as they sent representatives to the annually held meetings.

    The Szászok
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    As it has been previously mentioned, Transylvania was famous for it's salt mines. To increase the effectiveness of the Transylvanian salt mining industry, the Hungarian monarchs took an active part in the settlement of predominantly German and Flemish immigrants who were known as the 'Szászok' or Saxons by the natives (most likely as most of the Germans were from the Saxony region of the Holy Roman Empire). Although in 1080 there are virtually no Saxons present in Transylvania, they will irreversibly change the history of Transylvania in the following centuries by establishing towns, cities and fortresses throughout Erdőelve. Perhaps one of the most striking examples of how much they helped in the urbanisation of Transylvania during the middle ages is the city of Brassó: following their settlement in Brassó, the city soon became the trade capital of the region, as an important land trade route from Wallachia passed through the town. Beyond that, the Saxons brought their mining expertise to Transylvania. A prime example would be Torda which housed one of the largest salt mines in Transylvania. The town of Radna, which housed the largest silver mine in all the Carpathian basin also had a sizeable Saxon population, as did Nősen (also an important mining town in Transylvania). Another predominantly Saxon town is Regun, which was inhabited by Saxon master craftsmen who supplied the region with their hand crafted goods. As we can clearly see, the Ostsiedlung (migration eastwards) of the German people impacted Transylvania greatly. Just like the Szeklers you may personally shape the fate of all the western immigrants collectively known as 'Saxons' in Transylvania with out unique 'Hospes' (immigrant) tree!

    The Vlachs
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Beyond the Szeklers and the Szászok, we have to mention the Vlachs, the proud ancestors of the Romanian people.

    However, before we examine this extremely sensitive issue, I must point out that to this day the scientific community is engaged in a heated debated as to when, where and how the Vlachs came to be.
    Since we here at DotS would not like to take sides, and since most of the arguments related to the origin of Vlachs are rooted in the classical period and before that, we would like to offer only the medieval history
    of the Vlachs in Transylvania, by examining evidence from this period. Therefore we will state that which we know.

    According to official documents, the first large groups of Vlachs migrated to Transylvania in the early 13th century. They are first mentioned in writing in 1222 and 1247 (Terra Blachorum). At this time, their numbers were still small compared to other ethnic groups in Transylvania, therefore the King wanted to settle them in one area like the Saxons in Transylvania.

    They were settled in Transylvania based on a special set of laws called 'Vlach jog' or Vlach law. Their leaders, the 'Kenézek' (The word 'Kenéz' derives from the slavic word 'Knyaz'. It means 'Tribal leader', or 'Prince') acted as the administrators of the communities. Their Vlach law itself was the collective set of laws applied to the Vlachs (called Oláhok by the Hungarians) who led a transhumant way of life. Transhumance is the seasonal movement of people with their livestock between fixed summer and winter pastures. In mountainous regions (vertical transhumance) it implies movement between higher pastures in summer and lower valleys in winter. Herders have a permanent home, typically in valleys. Only the herds travel, with the people necessary to tend them. The Vlachs herded a large amount of animals, including pigs, horses, goats and sheep. Clearly, Transylvania due to its mountainous geography was an ideal place to continue this practice. Therefore the laws were mostly regarding the taxes paid in livestock to the monarch.

    The most important laws that should be mentioned are the following: the judge of a community settled by Vlach law was the Kenéz. Any judicial cases that exceeded the authority of a Kenéz were brought before the royal court. A third of any fines enacted upon a member of the community led by the Kenéz was granted to him, whilst the remaining two thirds would be granted to the community. The livestock tax which is enacted upon them specifies the amount of the tax in 1/50 of all livestock herded by the the Vlachs. The Vlachs also supplied the King with various armed forces. Although they were ill-equipped, they fought with great courage: their morale and hardness which held them in formation even in the face of certain death originated without a doubt from their extremely hard way of life. Although they were of another faith (namely Orthodox Christianity), they were favoured by the Hungarian nobility and the state as they could fill up depopulated areas caused by the various wars, and densely forested areas where few inhabitants were present prior to their settlement. Due to the fact that the lands inhabited by the Vlach communities belonged to the King and that the livestock tax depended on whether the Kenéz was a good administrator or not, the state became more and more involved in the election of the Kenézek, which reduced the part of the local community in governing their own region. The removal of the accountability by removing the locals from the internal affairs of the region they lorded over seduced many Kenézek to act outside the boundaries of Vlach law. By the 14th century documents prove that the free Vlachs suffered many injustices from their Kenézek, as they tried to establish serfdom, enacted special taxes and demanded such duties as free labour from the populace they lorded over which were not specified in Vlach law. From 1377 onward the King strictly forbade such practices. They provided the Hungarian military with special Vlach forces who proved quite effective in the wars on the Balkans. From the 14th century onward all nobles were granted the right of governance over the populace that lived on their lands. This in effect led to the serfdom of many previously free Vlachs who had settled in lands that were not owned by the King, but a regional magnate.

    The arrival of the Vlachs to Transylvania impacted the region on many levels: they enriched the culture of the nearby peoples immensely. They brought new words associated with pastoralism to the Hungarian language, they established new technologies that made them the masters of producing dairy products from their herds, the iconic Vlach shepherd buildings were invented by them, their clothes played a role in changing the style of shepherd clothing. They were also skilled craftsmen, creating tools from bone, stone and the production of high quality leather hides. Their folk music also intermingled with the Hungarian style, creating a unique musical heritage that combines the folk music of the near infinite amount of peoples that inhabited Transylvania throughout the centuries.

    Regarding the religious composition of Transylvania, at the start of DotS the region is in flux, up for the taking in religious terms. Although Hungary formally became a Catholic Christian nation, the de jure nature of this can be easily explained in Transylvania. A large percentage of the population still combined pagan rituals with Christian practices and as such, these people could be regarded as heretical at best. In fact, some years after the start date of the mod, a law was enacted in Hungary that prohibited such practices:

    "Those who in accordance with Pagan customs pledge sacrifices near wells, or bring presents to trees, springs and stones shall pay for their crimes with a single ox".
    The decree of Saint Ladislaus (1046-1095), the King of Hungary)

    Another sizeable majority still adhered to the ancient Hungarian/and other 'pagan' religions, not to mention the sizeable Orthodox Christian communities (the first Christian missionaries in Transylvania were Byzantine priests).

    All in all, the land of abundant lakes, rivers, dense forests and treacherous mountain passes invited many invaders throughout history such as the Pechenegs (who are on the verge of extinction in 1080), the Cumans who will initiate several invasions against Hungary before the Mongol hordes wipe them off the map... but that is all but a possibility. The fate of Transylvania is in your hands now. One thing is certain: he who controls Transylvania, controls the gateway to the Carpathian basin, and with that: the fate of Europe.

    This preview has been brought to you by the Magyar department of Dominion of the Sword which is made up of Kiskompi and myself.

    We hope that we have provided you, our loyal and loving fanbase, with a glimpse of what our grand mod holds in store for you in the coming months. I am personally thrilled to finally show you Transylvania, as my roots and ancestors hail from this proud land of warriors and mountain peaks.



    Stay tuned for the next episode of 'At the heart and ends of Europe', where we will travel westwards to the very heart of the Carpathian basin: Pannonia!

    Have a nice day! Or as we Szeklers would say: Adjon az isten erőt, egészséget!

    Cheers,
    Diodredai
    Last edited by Diodredai; December 07, 2012 at 09:31 AM.

    Creator of the Unoffical DotS FAQ thread
    "Sagittis hungarorum libera nos Domine" (translation: "Lord save us from the arrows of the Hungarians")
    Creator of the Share your musical heritage! thread in the DotS forums

  3. #3

    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    2 previews in 2 days ?
    wow
    this month will be promising !!!

  4. #4
    Morrowgan's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    Another preview ?! Excellent !!
    Member of the Beyond Skyrim Project

  5. #5
    Diodredai's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by Deutscher Kaiser View Post
    Another preview ?! Excellent !!

    I'd wait a few minutes before reading the text as I am in the process of formatting and uploading screenshots (as some stuff got screwed up during the upload).

    Stay tuned for more!

    ~EDIT:

    Uploading has finished. I hope that all of ye who shall read the article shall emerge more well informed about the region of the world we call Transylvania!
    Last edited by Diodredai; December 02, 2012 at 11:21 AM.

    Creator of the Unoffical DotS FAQ thread
    "Sagittis hungarorum libera nos Domine" (translation: "Lord save us from the arrows of the Hungarians")
    Creator of the Share your musical heritage! thread in the DotS forums

  6. #6
    Enarec's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    Gorgeous preview! The landscape looks so realistic and wonderous, especially the winter ones. I love the deep historical accuracy too.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    Wow. The PSF's have agents labelling them but do not take up space on the map. Is this possibly related to the Question marks used in the TATW Fellowship campaign?
    FREE THE NIPPLE!!!

  8. #8
    Diodredai's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by Enarec View Post
    Gorgeous preview! The landscape looks so realistic and wonderous, especially the winter ones. I love the deep historical accuracy too.
    Thank you very much!
    Indeed the work of our mappers is truly remarkable. I do hope that the day isn't far away when all of ye can bask in it's glory whilst conquering the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaytaninc View Post
    Wow. The PSF's have agents labelling them but do not take up space on the map. Is this possibly related to the Question marks used in the TATW Fellowship campaign?
    A simple CTRL N command can make all of the agent labels disappear that we use for marking our PSFs.

    This time around, it was done for practicality as we are doing the finishing touches on the neighbouring region of Magyar uruszág (Hungary proper) therefore the PSFs there might have an incorrect name.

    Creator of the Unoffical DotS FAQ thread
    "Sagittis hungarorum libera nos Domine" (translation: "Lord save us from the arrows of the Hungarians")
    Creator of the Share your musical heritage! thread in the DotS forums

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    Epic preview there!

    May I ask, in which preview thread will the rest of the Balkans be shown in? In this one, or in Dar-al-Islam?

  10. #10
    Diodredai's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kybrothilian View Post
    Epic preview there!

    May I ask, in which preview thread will the rest of the Balkans be shown in? In this one, or in Dar-al-Islam?
    Neither I'm afraid, this preview will preview a part of Central Europe: Bohemia (modern day Czecz Republic), the Kingdom of Hungary (parts of which are located today in Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Serbia and the Ukraine) and Poland.

    The closest you'll get in this preview to the Balkans is the Szerém region of Hungary proper, that will be previewed in an upcoming preview - that is the border between Central and Southern Europe I'm afraid.

    Dar-Al-Islam will focus on the Islamic lands of the middle-east, but not on the Balkans.

    Creator of the Unoffical DotS FAQ thread
    "Sagittis hungarorum libera nos Domine" (translation: "Lord save us from the arrows of the Hungarians")
    Creator of the Share your musical heritage! thread in the DotS forums

  11. #11

    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    Well, my real question was that it didn't seem to me that the system used in 1648 is what is used here, that required impassable areas, and these labels seem directly under the forts where they would be if the forts were a settlement.
    FREE THE NIPPLE!!!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    Awesome looking Mod I can't wait to play it. Although there are way to many forts everywhere, this mod will eat like hundreds of hours of my life

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    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by Diodredai View Post
    Neither I'm afraid, this preview will preview a part of Central Europe: Bohemia (modern day Czecz Republic), the Kingdom of Hungary (parts of which are located today in Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Serbia and the Ukraine) and Poland.

    The closest you'll get in this preview to the Balkans is the Szerém region of Hungary proper, that will be previewed in an upcoming preview - that is the border between Central and Southern Europe I'm afraid.

    Dar-Al-Islam will focus on the Islamic lands of the middle-east, but not on the Balkans.
    I see. Well I am hoping that someone from the mod team that is more a ERE fan will preview those regions.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    More excellent work. Surely you must be nearly finished now

  15. #15
    Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ's Avatar Yeah science!
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    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    Great preview. I enjoyed reading historical information especially since I don't know much about Kingdom Hungary and the lands that it includes.

  16. #16
    HTVfanatic's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    This is great guys, I didn't know I could get more excited for this mod. Well done!

  17. #17

    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    I compared inner Asia Minor to Transylvania, and Transylvania has much more PSF's than Asia Minor. I know those parts in Asia Minor were pretty arid and desolate, but since Transylvania is described as very depopulated and forested shouldn't they be roughly equal?

    Or are PSF's in Asia Minor bigger cities, thus richer than small villages of Transylvania?

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    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by Stark1 View Post
    I compared inner Asia Minor to Transylvania, and Transylvania has much more PSF's than Asia Minor. I know those parts in Asia Minor were pretty arid and desolate, but since Transylvania is described as very depopulated and forested shouldn't they be roughly equal?

    Or are PSF's in Asia Minor bigger cities, thus richer than small villages of Transylvania?
    Most of the PSFs in Transylvania represent castles and small towns, while Asia Minor counted many large cities, but fewer towns in total. There is also the factor of historical records, which often lack for regions like Asia Minor.
    Mod Leader, Head of Research & Middle East Specialist

  19. #19
    Diodredai's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollodotos I Soter View Post
    Great preview. I enjoyed reading historical information especially since I don't know much about Kingdom Hungary and the lands that it includes.
    Thanks! Then I do believe you shall enjoy this thread as our hopes here at DotS is that we can convince all of you to make Bohemia, Hungary or Poland to be one of the first factions you check out once we release!

    Quote Originally Posted by Landil View Post
    Most of the PSFs in Transylvania represent castles and small towns, while Asia Minor counted many large cities, but fewer towns in total. There is also the factor of historical records, which often lack for regions like Asia Minor.
    Landil is absolutely correct. The population estimates for the entire Carpathian basin is around 1,5-2 million people with Transylvania being around 250,000-350,000 depending on which estimate you prefer as none of these numbers are absolutely concrete (Landil my dear friend I do believe to estimate Transylvania to be more around the 200,000 mark if I am correct) with the largest towns being around 5,000-10,000 inhabitants in Transylvania where as the Golden Horde capital of Saraj is estimated to have around 500,000-600,000 inhabitants(!) in the 14th century.

    It is an incredibly unfortunate tendency in the west to look upon steppe peoples and think of them as nomad barbarians without any form of culture or civilization based on the view that we don't know much about their cities: in fact as we can clearly see entire mega-cities like Balanjar, Bulgar and Saraj emerging along the major trade routes in Steppe that rival the size and population of western cities like Rome and Constantinople.

    Don't worry we have a team that is devoted to estimating the in-game income of all the PSFs in game so that the quantity-quality gap can be breached. For instance I'd wager that the income of a single steppe PSF might be worth about 4-5 PSFs in Europe based on reality.

    Therefore expanding eastwards is in fact a possibility: provided that you equate for the Mongol hordes that will sweep across the steppe: that is perhaps one of the great reasons for trying out of the previewed factions here, as building up your forces and defenses to counter the Mongols will be quite a challenge: as it was in reality.
    Last edited by Diodredai; December 03, 2012 at 07:52 AM.

    Creator of the Unoffical DotS FAQ thread
    "Sagittis hungarorum libera nos Domine" (translation: "Lord save us from the arrows of the Hungarians")
    Creator of the Share your musical heritage! thread in the DotS forums

  20. #20

    Default Re: Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

    Oh, interesting. I can't wait the release, this will be amazing.

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