No Imjin War mod with Korea/China? A suggestion.

[Roma_Victrix]

Hi everyone,

I must say, nice work with modding the game thus far. However, may I make a suggestion for a future mod that would be awesome to see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imjin_War

Daimyo Toyotomi's Japanese invasions of Joseon-dynasty Korea from the years 1592 to 1598, commonly referred to as Imjin (壬辰), is one of those landmark conflicts in East Asian history that is sadly absent in such games. In the same century as the Battle of Lepanto with Catholic powers pitted against the Ottomans, and the defeat of the Spanish armada by the English, the Imjin War still involved some of the largest naval operations of the time period. The sheer scale of Japanese mobilization against Joseon Korea (aided by the Ming Dynasty of China) in this particular war is akin to the Japanese invasions centuries later in the events preceding WWII. The Korean response with able naval commanders like Yi Sun-sin is worthy of a game mod in and of itself!

So why not create such a mod? Aside from creating new skins and textures for Korean and Chinese units, there would have to be an incredible amount of work done on remodeling battle-map settlements to reflect Korean-style fortresses and cities as opposed to Japanese ones. But with time and effort it could be done! I'm actually somewhat surprised no one's brought this subject to the fore, considering how it could easily be the most popular mod for this game.

I'm busy playing Stainless Steel for MDWII Kingdoms at the moment, but I noticed a mod called "Falcom" over there that includes full world map with Song-era China, Korea and Japan included. If the modders over there can do it from scratch with a game centered on Europe and the Middle East, why can't you with Shogun?

Just a hopeful suggestion.
Roma_Victrix

[Diamat]

Last time I checked this wasn't possible, because we cannot change the campaign map.

[BigDogDavis]

Last time I checked this wasn't possible, because we cannot change the campaign map.

We almost can

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=548643

Just need CA to help with Supertexturing

[Diamat]

We almost can

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=548643

Just need CA to help with Supertexturing

Can you summarize this for me. Realistically, how long (far) are we away from easily making custom maps? I mean, I have always wanted to make a Korea mod, but have long ago given up due to the map issues, and instead I switched to modding NTW.

[BigDogDavis]

Can you summarize this for me. Realistically, how long (far) are we away from easily making custom maps? I mean, I have always wanted to make a Korea mod, but have long ago given up due to the map issues, and instead I switched to modding NTW.

The guy who was working on the map, SpartanWarrior hasn't updated in a while. I don't know how long it would be realistically. We know it should be possible, because there's a map processing tool in the modding kit. You need 3dsmax to make new maps.

[Diamat]

The guy who was working on the map, SpartanWarrior hasn't updated in a while. I don't know how long it would be realistically. We know it should be possible, because there's a map processing tool in the modding kit. You need 3dsmax to make new maps.

I see we are still quite a distance away. Once the process is cleared up, other modders will be able to imitate it. I doubt you will be seeing full map conversions any time soon.

Once the time comes, I would hope to coalesce with like-minded modders to discuss the potential for an Imjin mod. But until then, we will just have to wait.

[Roma_Victrix]

What a shame!

I hope for everyone's sake the map issues are cleared up in the near future, sooner rather than later. Thank you everyone for the input, since I was unaware that the map is incapable of being edited.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Wont happen sooner if everybody is expecting somebody to something that they themselves want.

[BigDogDavis]

What a shame!

I hope for everyone's sake the map issues are cleared up in the near future, sooner rather than later. Thank you everyone for the input, since I was unaware that the map is incapable of being edited.

I wouldn't say it's incapable, we have the tools, we just need to figure out how to use them.

[Diamat]

Well, I would love to do it, but I simply have no mapping experience. The entry costs are way too high for me. I'll leave it to the experts.

[Clodius]

I would happily volunteer my time for research and faction design as well if someone can fix the map issue.

I can't really see just tacking Korea onto the existing map and dividing Japan between two huge factions (the Toyotomi and the Tokugawa as vassals) with 30 provinces each as workable though - you'd need a smaller Japan with fewer provinces.

Also getting the Chinese involved is going to be a real challenge as I don't think it is feasible to script a vast horde of Chinese troops just turning up off the maps edge and joining the Koreans as was feasible in MTW2 - so you'd need to have one of more Chinese provinces - in which case you might as well go for an even bigger map with the whole of China.

And if you do that you might as well include the Manchus, Mongols, Portuguese in Macao and the Spanish in the Philippines.

But if we could make truly custom maps we can use FOTS for the American Civil War as it has trains, ironclads, gatling guns etc which I am afraid would take priority for me....

[BigDogDavis]

Somebody suggested we should make a map that has Eastern China, Eastern Russia, Korea, and Japan, that way we could do both Imjin for Shogun 2, and Russo Japanese/Boxer Rebellion for FOTS

[Diamat]

As long as the map thing has not been fully figured out, there is nothing we can do. And as long as we don't have a mapper willing to work on this project, nothing will be possible. If it would hypothetically become possible to edit the maps, we would need an experienced mapper. He or she would be the cornerstone of an Imjin project.

I mean, I would love to help lead this project, but the map thing needs to happen first.

[BigDogDavis]

You could make it a custom battle only mod, until mapping is figured out.

[Diamat]

IF it will ever be figured out. I mean, we have been waiting for over a year now. Who knows how long it will take. Modders generally don't want to get involved in a project which may not have a future. At the moment, there is no guarantee it will ever be figured out. I'd also prefer first having the map capabilities, so that modders can get together and make a plan for the mod.

[BigDogDavis]

IF it will ever be figured out. I mean, we have been waiting for over a year now. Who knows how long it will take. Modders generally don't want to get involved in a project which may not have a future. At the moment, there is no guarantee it will ever be figured out. I'd also prefer first having the map capabilities, so that modders can get together and make a plan for the mod.

If you get all the units done first though, you'll have less things to worry about.

[Diamat]

I'm not even going to bother with the units until I at least know that we will have mapping capabilities soon. Otherwise it might just be wasted effort. And if a mod project were to be started, it would have to be planned first, recruiting modders, etc. And we can't really plan anything without the mapping.

I know how you feel. I would love to get things started too, but it's best to wait, trust me.

[weeeee659]

I think it will probably take a while before this will be possible if not never. I was really hoping CA would fix the supertextures with the optimisation patch but alas, that didn't happen. And with them working on Rome 2 I don't have my hopes up for the issue being fixed in the near future. Also Clodius you are forgetting about the fact that FOTS still uses Japanese fighting animations, and has Japanese architecture. The best thing we can do is add in Korea and maybe China. But at the moment, without the supertextures, even that is not possible.

[RollingWave]

I would happily volunteer my time for research and faction design as well if someone can fix the map issue.

I can't really see just tacking Korea onto the existing map and dividing Japan between two huge factions (the Toyotomi and the Tokugawa as vassals) with 30 provinces each as workable though - you'd need a smaller Japan with fewer provinces.

Also getting the Chinese involved is going to be a real challenge as I don't think it is feasible to script a vast horde of Chinese troops just turning up off the maps edge and joining the Koreans as was feasible in MTW2 - so you'd need to have one of more Chinese provinces - in which case you might as well go for an even bigger map with the whole of China.

And if you do that you might as well include the Manchus, Mongols, Portuguese in Macao and the Spanish in the Philippines.

But if we could make truly custom maps we can use FOTS for the American Civil War as it has trains, ironclads, gatling guns etc which I am afraid would take priority for me....

Given that the Chinese army wasn't really big (it was only bigger than the Japanese one at the very end of the war, and that was because Japan already pulled half of their army out.) this shouldn't be a huge issue.

Another big issue is the battle map, seeing that most of the war was fought over siege, and most of it was over traditional continental cities with the standard one big wall like M2TW and not like the Shogun once (there were also castles like those though.)

[RollingWave]

I'd suppose the next best thing we could hope for is historical custom battle, since that is at least more within the realm of possibility than editing campaign maps at the moment (seeing that we're like what.. 7_ years now without figuring how to edit those post M2TW maps, it took about 7 minutes to figure out how to edit the RTW / M2TW once.) .

Imjin war doesn't really fit in the total war theme anyway in that sense, the period was relatively short ( only about 3 years of fighting, and half of that was just staring at each other in prolonged standoffs.) there actually weren't much recruitment / development of any sort, the sides made due with what they had and adjusted a little on the fly. )

The really special units on the Korean / Chinese side that the Japanese didn't have (in game context, Japan almost surely didn't use any Horse archer in Korea but the Chinese / Koreans did quiet a bit.) were

A. rocket arrows , there were a variety of ways of using them but for game context I guess the Hwacha (essentially M2TW's Timurids Rockets) would be the most logical.

B. hand gunner, these were older hand guns that had very limited range, but they could be fired in several rounds (tubes) and / or fire in a buck shot matter. the way to use them generally was to give them to heavily armored warriors, just charge in close and blast off, then just use the hand cannon as a mace and wack the enemy formation that probably was loosen up by your barrage.