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Thread: [Submod]Jizya, Kafirs & Dhimmis; v2Released

  1. #141

    Default Re: JK&D 1.0 Submod for BC 2.3.2 [RELEASED]

    I present you some of the new strat models:
    Hindu priests:

    Coptic priest/Bishop/Patriarch :

    And a draft for an heretic adapted to middle east:

  2. #142
    jermagon's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: JK&D 1.0 Submod for BC 2.3.2 [RELEASED]

    Byz you are doing a great Job my friend, I like the Makurian Priests but they should have Black skin, After All Makuria was Black Orthodox Kingdom, and you change also the Makurian Diplomats and merchants ?


    George Galloway ''You don't give a damn !!!!!!!!''







  3. #143

    Default Re: JK&D 1.0 Submod for BC 2.3.2 [RELEASED]

    Hey! Good to read you, Jermagon my friend!
    About makurian priests: in fact, most of the makurian clergy were egyptians, especially in the high ranks (Bishop: Abuna; and the patriarch of Africa was allways an egyptian).
    It's why i give to my makurian priest a dark skin, but not too much. Because they are in fact more egyptian than abyssinian.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuna
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopi...ewahedo_Church

  4. #144

    Default Re: JK&D 1.0 Submod for BC 2.3.2 [RELEASED]

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantineboy View Post
    Subtly remarked, pagan polytheists were not submited to jizya taxes, but forced to convert or die.
    There was some exceptions like hindus (or mandaneans), although they were not considered - at first - as "people of the books", after a period of doubts, muslims rulers gave them the statut of dhimmi (submited to jizya but not killed).
    Thank you for the explanation, it makes sense now.

  5. #145

    Default Re: JK&D 1.0 Submod for BC 2.3.2 [RELEASED]

    just some corrections although it may hurt some people here.....you know in Sunni Islam the Shia's are not considered as Muslims,they are considered as worst than Heretics for like the saying says "They are worst than the other faith because they have known Islam but then they have planned to use it and alter it for their own gains",so will be nice if in the next version you edit out that Sunni Jizya to the Shia or other sects like Ibadi,Zaidi or etc. i forgot the names.

  6. #146

    Default Re: JK&D 1.0 Submod for BC 2.3.2 [RELEASED]

    Quote Originally Posted by 613 The Evil View Post
    Thank you for the explanation, it makes sense now.
    on a note Jizya is for the people of the books,Pagans and Polytheist or Satanist or Cultists are considered to be killed as was written and commanded in Torah,Gospel and Qur'an.

  7. #147

    Default Re: JK&D 1.0 Submod for BC 2.3.2 [RELEASED]

    There is nothing like that in the Gospels or the collective New Testament. Absolutely nothing.And the Old Testament doesn't command the killing of pagans and polytheists per se, but rather those to whom God sought to exert justice. And that's just the traditional reading of the Scriptures. There are theologians who suggest these accounts are not necessarily historical anecdotes, but rather theological ones. So rather than God commanding the state to exert temporal punishments, it is really a command to rid such things in the soul.The latter hermeneutic seems more consistent with Christianity in my opinion, which holds that justice isn't really a temporal thing, but rather something that comes post-mortem.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. CHESTERTON

  8. #148
    Julio85's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: JK&D 1.0 Submod for BC 2.3.2 [RELEASED]

    Congratulation for the new strat map models Byzantine-boy!

    Can I give you an advice in order to make the communities less static and a little bit more dynamic?
    you may put the condition that if a religiuos community will rise more than 25%-30% of the total population of a region.....they create an agent (like a eretic, AI controlled) that can move around and spread their religion.
    Jews or Zoroastronian priests....but also other communities.
    In this way communities have be manage in a proper way

    what wuold be the next projcets for your sub-mod?
    have ever consider give the religion as a accilary thing for the generals?

  9. #149

    Default Re: JK&D 1.0 Submod for BC 2.3.2 [RELEASED]

    Quote Originally Posted by atheniandp View Post
    There is nothing like that in the Gospels or the collective New Testament. Absolutely nothing.And the Old Testament doesn't command the killing of pagans and polytheists per se, but rather those to whom God sought to exert justice. And that's just the traditional reading of the Scriptures. There are theologians who suggest these accounts are not necessarily historical anecdotes, but rather theological ones. So rather than God commanding the state to exert temporal punishments, it is really a command to rid such things in the soul.The latter hermeneutic seems more consistent with Christianity in my opinion, which holds that justice isn't really a temporal thing, but rather something that comes post-mortem.
    you know Homosexuals as well as those who did Incests and Satanist or Witchcraft or pact with the devil (some applicable to Paganism) was written in the Bible and it says "their blood should be upon them" and that means you know.

  10. #150

    Default Re: JK&D 1.0 Submod for BC 2.3.2 [RELEASED]

    Julio, it could be a good idea, but it is not possible. Because religious agents spead only the official religion, and Rebel faction religion is heretic.It could be doable only if I create a new faction for each religion (zoro, east christ, jew); but it would be a lot of work, and it will not being adaptable to BC 2.4.But I am working to modify witch into a different type of heretic; so there should be one "muslim/eastern" heretic, and one "christian/western heretic";Now i have finish this implementations:

    1/Mongols armies with generals move now really faster.
    2/Special building for Armenian in their national provinces only, the Khachkars; I am still working on other factions special building, but i lack idea for a lot of them: I am waiting your propositions
    3/Generals/governors recruitable in fortress and in last level of cities.
    4/Religious buildings have the correct name of the faith of their faction; Ismaili for Shia, Armenian Apostolic for Armenia, Coptic for Makuria, Georgian Apostolic for Georgia etc...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Now i am working on a new yes/ no script about religious persecution or tolerance.
    But i have also to finish some other stuff in campaign script: most of settlements names will be automaticaly changed when an arabic/turkic/armenian/greek/crusader take it during a campaign
    (ex: Erzerum in turkish, Theodosiopolis in greek, Karin in armenian;
    Ankyra if ERE take Ankara; Hierosolytanum when Jerusalem belongs to KOJ, and Al-Quods when Egypt/Abbassids, Seljuks, Oman, etc... take the city)
    Last edited by Byzantineboy; May 31, 2013 at 03:47 PM.

  11. #151

    Default Re: JK&D 1.0 Submod for BC 2.3.2 [RELEASED]

    Such a script would be great! Let me know if you need my help in researching their names.

    I will also release an updated version of Mappa Mundi that will change the province name from "Iudaea" to "Palaestina", make some fixes in other settlements, and expand the rebel names.


    EDIT: I'd like to make a suggestion regarding Hindu religious agents. Since Hinduism isn't a proselytizing religion, the Hindu factions either should not really have agents.

    But there is a solution to how they can function pretty realistically yet still be incorporated: restrict their movement points. With their movement greatly restricted, Hindu religion will spread slower than the others yet still offer that religious bonus to Hindu provinces.
    Last edited by atheniandp; May 31, 2013 at 05:54 PM.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. CHESTERTON

  12. #152

    Default Re: JK&D 1.0 Submod for BC 2.3.2 [RELEASED]

    In fact, I could implement hindu priests only if i add heretics (because hindu like pagan will need priests to defend their lands against heretics),
    But i am still not sure that i will implement heretics. Synchretism (make a new religion in a misc of other) was a great tentation in the 12th century religious world, especialy amongst hindu and zoroastrian fellows under muslim rulers (Sikhism belongs to a synchretist movement); and in the first centuries of occupation, the zoroastrian clergy was working in cooperation with muslim rulers in order to prevent all this synchretism and punish the zoroastrian/muslim heretics.
    But, I agree that adding pagan or hindu missionary or muslim princesses is an historical non-sense.
    I have made this hindu priest models for the training and for fun; I dont feel mandatory to implement them in my JKD submod.

    But i would like maybe add pagan and maybe hindu princesses, because historicaly it has more sense. For exemple; There was an alliance between Georgia and Kypchaks through a marriage between the georgian king Davit IV and the a kypchak princess.

  13. #153

    Default Re: JK&D 1.0 Submod for BC 2.3.2 [RELEASED]

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantineboy View Post
    no more "Emperor" but Basileos, no more Faction Heir, but Symbasileos etc... ;
    Should it not be Basileus and Caesar respectively? Basileos is the genitive. See Wikipedia Byzantine Aristocracy and Bureaucracy.

  14. #154

    Default Re: [Submod]Jizya, Kafirs & Dhimmis; v1.0 released; v2.0 work in progress

    Basileus -> Yes true, thank you very much.Kaisar-> Since the komnenians, this title is less important, and is given to foreign dignitaries. I am quite sure that the correct title is symbasileus.

  15. #155

    Default Re: [Submod]Jizya, Kafirs & Dhimmis; v1.0 released; v2.0 work in progress

    Perhaps if twaks to recruitment/leveleing up of the Castles and Fortresses? I saw a very interesting Idea from a Sub-Mod from Stainless Steel. Rather tha requering the traadional building tree you are able to acquire all of your units via a unique "building" on each settlement. Here is the Sub-Mod...

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Map-Buildings)

  16. #156
    jermagon's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Submod]Jizya, Kafirs & Dhimmis; v1.0 released; v2.0 work in progress

    Dear Byzantine

    I have some Ideas to enhance this mods by adding some new buildings for the Muslim factions, building such buildings affects the Happiness and public order within the cities
    for Example

    1- Sabil (fountain): it was accustomed in the medieval Muslim cities to find a Sabil a water fountain which offers fresh water for free for poor people,wealthy families or Sultans or emirs used to build fountain in each city,its considered a great deed in Islam to offer a drink of water to thirst .

    2- Qantara: Many Muslim cities were built on the river, Degla river for Example divides Baghdad into 2 halves, Muslim ruler used to build Qantara (Bridges) to link the 2 parts of the city together.

    3- Qanat: water Canal

    4- Khazanat al Kuttub: library

    5- Qanatir: Aqueducts

    6- Khanqa
    : Persian words means the house of Sufis, Sufis were pious Muslim who forsake the exotic life and all kins of mortal pleasures, They belong to different ṭuruq or "orders'', Muslim rulers often built Khanqas (Great House) so that Sufis could pray and rest, they also hired Cooks to prepare free meals for them

    7- Matar al-Hamam: Homing Pigeons were used to deliver messages since ancient times, The pigeons were transported to a destination in cages, where they would be attached with messages, then naturally the pigeon would fly back to its home where the owner could read his mail, Caliph Muawiya established Pigeons towers in Damascus to correspond with the Caliphate's provinces,and to send Royal Messages to governors and army generals.
    Last edited by jermagon; June 08, 2013 at 01:04 PM.


    George Galloway ''You don't give a damn !!!!!!!!''







  17. #157

    Default Re: [Submod]Jizya, Kafirs & Dhimmis; v1.0 released; v2.0 work in progress

    Thx Jerm my friend, I will PM you soon

    Here some new modifications i have made during the previous week:

    Imam Level 2 added for all muslim factions (Is there a better name as Great Imam, or is that historicaly accurate?)



    And my new persecution script, for each faction:
    Here the draft for Roman Empire;
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Will you choose tolerance?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Or will you persecute infidels?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Sindh conversion script is also quite finished soon.
    Last edited by Byzantineboy; June 09, 2013 at 03:16 PM.

  18. #158

    Default Re: [Submod]Jizya, Kafirs & Dhimmis; v1.0 released; v2.0 work in progress

    How will these religious politics affect your population?

  19. #159

    Default Re: [Submod]Jizya, Kafirs & Dhimmis; v1.0 released; v2.0 work in progress

    This persecution script:

    Is offered every 15 years (30 turns) if you have a new faction leader (for exemple : this happens only one time, at the begining of his reign, if your leader rules during 50 years - 100 turns - without dying).

    The persecution script will be specific for each faction,
    The planned effects :
    - may affect the possibility to build other communities buildings (jews, zoroastrians, copts, assyrians, armenians, latins, sunni muslim, etc...)
    - The bonuses (negative trade, happiness, etc...) of this community buildings
    - It should also destroy some of this buildings (if the faction leader has already the intolerant trait)
    - it should also remove all the communities ancillaries
    - it should convert a small part of the religious minorities to the faction religion.
    - it will give the intolerant trait to the faction leader.
    - It will also add some "hates jews", "hates zoroastrian", "hates christian", "zealous" etc... traits to some governors.
    - it could also affect the population and decrease the population grows during few turns.
    - but in exchange, you will earn some money of the loots.
    - your new recruited troops will have +1 in morale on the battlefield.

  20. #160
    jermagon's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Submod]Jizya, Kafirs & Dhimmis; v1.0 released; v2.0 work in progress

    wow the game is becoming more and more realistic, by the way Byzantine are you planing for revolution and rebellion scripts as well ??


    George Galloway ''You don't give a damn !!!!!!!!''







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