The Unlimilted Mongol Invasion ?

[Thekingtomb]

Hello fellow warrior comrades,

I am currently playing a Stainless Steel 6.4 Grand Campaign (Early Era) with the Byzantine Empire in Medium Mode ( I know, I know but it is my first Stainless Steel try...). Excellent campaign by the way, a great work from the team to turn the unbearably weak vanilia version of the Byzantines into something more powerful and playable without overpowering their fellow Catholics (by that I mean that the average Infantry -mostly heavy when comparing to Chivalric and Foot infantry-, Cavalry -try to compare with France - and Archers are slightly under the Occidental Factions).

Anyway, I am around 1250 and the Mongols have devastaded the Khwarezmian (sorry for spelling mistakes) and are destroying what's left of the Turks and Cumans. That's fine for me, they haven't attacked me yet (even though I can see them on my borders). But I still noticed something extremely strange: something like 15 turns after their invasion they were in bankrupt (they couldn't repair anything in their captured settlements) and yet their number continued to increase ridiculously fast. 5 turns after that they surpassed me in number, and I was by far the most powerful military faction at that time. And they are still continiously increasing while taking only a few casualties from their fights (by the way, they always leave only one general per settlement and the rest of the army continues the slaughter. Isn't this somewhat unrealistic?). When you know that historically speaking the Mongols weren't that numerous, it looks pretty insane .

I would like to know how this is bloody hell possible. I had prepared what I tought was a strong defence line against them (my eastern border looks like the Great Wall of China) with something like 13 or 14 full autonom army packs and I'm starting to doubt about that wall (after all, the Great Wall didn't stop the Mongols from invading China...). Is this some kind of bug or is it perfectly normal. I haven't confronted them yet, but I can't stop to think that it looks just abused. I wonder how it would be to play as the Khwarezmian Empire in Very Hard mode... Any feedbacks people?

The Empereror protects, the Empire prevails!

[Thekingtomb]

Geez just noticed the mistake on the title... Sorry, guess it's because Its pretty early.
I would appreciate if someone with the proper privileges could correct it.

[Medifh]

As far as I know, the Mongols and Timurids are factions in the sense that they come from specific events and aren't immediately visible on the map, that is: they spawn.

So yeah, in a way they're continuously getting troops and support from the East. At least until you stop them (or the spawning stops - if it does at all ;D)!

[YuilenZ01]

So let me get this straight. You're playing SS on medium/medium without byg's GR IV and you think it's difficult? You're complaining about the Mongols?

Play on VH/VH with GR IV and RR/RC as the Romans, AND keep the Mongols out of Georgia/Mesopotamia. Crybaby.

[Kaidonni]

So let me get this straight. You're playing SS on medium/medium without byg's GR IV and you think it's difficult? You're complaining about the Mongols?

Play on VH/VH with GR IV and RR/RC as the Romans, AND keep the Mongols out of Georgia/Mesopotamia. Crybaby.

You're still playing BGR IV? BGR V is difficult, you pansy!

*Please take notice I am not being serious here. The following part is serious, however...

The Mongols receive reinforcements through campaign_script.txt, as do the Timurids. Depending on what faction and what era, it spawns the faction itself then provides reinforcements afterwards if certain conditions are met. As for the difficulty in facing the Mongols, remember that this is a computer game - in real life, the Mongols didn't need that many armies to annihilate a great many of their enemies, but the AI isn't a real life commander. This holds true when the AI Mongols are pitted against Human players in particular - the Human player will have major advantages over the AI and do things against a larger force the AI just isn't capable of. Plus it's a game, so some artistic license has been taken to indicate the level of danger the Mongols posed (considering the true scale of their forces, dozens of full stacks would technically be accurate since troop numbers in-game are limited per unit). A few full stacks just wouldn't represent their invasion very well at all unless left to the Human player's control.

[Macunaíma]

Post a screenie of your campaign map.

[Thekingtomb]

Ok I thought it would be something like that. Guess the Mongols' strength is based on my own strength or maybe they will just keep spawning until they take some certain territories... Or it is until a certain date? That would be more realistic. I am not against the fact that the Mongols should be extremely powerful (it wouldn't be an invasion then, wouldn’t it? ) but still that spawning stuff. I mean they are already more numerous than all the other nations combined and they keep spawning while being on bankrupt. And they don't disband either, despite the fact that they keep all their leaders inside the settlements and that they have no money . I remember the Vanilla version: something like 20 full elite armed packs spawned and basta! I am not saying that the Vanilla version is better, on the contrary, the Vanilla Mongols had horrendous habits, such as not attacking anyone but you if you had some eastern territories. And their heavy cavalry could cut trough spearmen like knives in butter (don't know if that's the case for those guys though...). Still that spawning stuff... Maybe the AI should take in account a date rather than some territories to stop the spawning, or else Mongols might even keep spawning around 1400 . Bah, guess I'll have to live with that....

Thanks for your help guys, and if anyone has some experiences, strategies, infos, issues or anything that could be useful against these SS Mongols (having not fought against them yet, though it shouldn't be long before it, I would appreciate to have some tips), I would be grateful if you could share them.

May the grace of God guide your steps in battle!

[Thekingtomb]

So let me get this straight. You're playing SS on medium/medium without byg's GR IV and you think it's difficult? You're complaining about the Mongols?

Play on VH/VH with GR IV and RR/RC as the Romans, AND keep the Mongols out of Georgia/Mesopotamia. Crybaby.

I'm not an expert at Stainless Steel (first campaign) and I doubt I'll probably be some day, due to other...constraints . I was in fact more worried about a potential bug or something else concerning the game than facing the mongols, because i found their packs pretty numerous for a Medium Campaign (more than 1M men), much more numerous in fact that in the Vanilia campaign. If you read my question carefully, I never said I thought it was difficult, I said I was surprised. Anyway, yeah, I guess a Khwz campaign on VH would be much more difficult, and bravo if you manage man, congrats. But that wasn't my point.
And for me gaming is about fun, not about trying to play as hard as possible to show how good I am. But that's my point of view.

[FFJean]

Yuilen,
Let me get this straight too:
I must say that I struggle to see the added value you provided. It just seems to be a way to claim your superiority. This was not the question and honestly there are other difficulty levels than VH/VH, which "may" indicate that they can be played. I don't think that Thekingtomb was complaining but just asking for support, which clearly you didn't provide. Maybe you should show less complacency and more openess.
Sorry for my questionable English.
Regards,
FFJean

[Thekingtomb]

(Sorry Kaidonni and Medifh, wanted to quote you but I get a weard vBulletin message or something like that).
And sorry, tried to but I couldn't find my screens anywere. It's somewhat more difficult since I'm on steam...

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

I wouldnt be too worried about Mongols at all, just ally them, it should be fairly easy, it will keep them from attacking you for at least a bit when they reach you, and since they leave all the generals in the settlements it will be a bit easier - your units wont rout quickly because their morale wont be insta-decreased by the high dead their generals have.

In my recent Byzantine campaign (late) they have stopped in Caucasus and are fighting with Sejuks still, but their larger forces are gone completely from there, which is great because it is keeping Seljuks off of my back and Mongols cant invade because of the lack of armies. I allied them as well, for the extra safety. They are mostly invading the russian steppes.

TBH im kind of dissapointed by them, their army gets decimated before they even reach me most of the time, except ofcourse if you play as the Khwarezmians.

[Thekingtomb]

In fact it is exactly what I am doing. I keep allied with them until I finsih my invasion of Italy and I find a strategy to piss them off. The problem is that one of my long standing allies, Kievan Russia, keeps declaring war on them and therefore eachtime I have to re-ally with the Mongols. It's pretty good because my relationship with them increases each time (I am on Perfect I think) but it's still annoying to have to do that every 2 turns... (and I don't want to break with Kievan Russia either).
On the other hand I think the Mongols' strenght depends totally on the game. In my game I crushed after a long campaign the Seljuk resistance and the poor Fatimids and since Khwz attacked me I had to fight a bit with them. As a result they all were extremely weak when the Mongols attacked and they were obliterated in no time. And now I have something like 10 army packs of Mongols in the Caucasus, just in front of my fortress of Tbilissi . I'm managing to block them for now but as time passes, more and more come. I maybe be should have dealt with them at the beginning and beaten their forces separately, but I was busy in Italia (since I'm confronting modern european armies, the fight might be long).
Damn I would like to show a screenshot but I can't find the place were they are saved (Damn you Steam!).

[Thekingtomb]

Ok I finally did it.
So, here is the Campaign map:



And the Caucasus situation:



You can see that the Golden Horde smashed everything (the enemies didn't oppose any kind of particular resistance).

[Andytheplatypus]

Ok I finally did it.
So, here is the Campaign map:



And the Caucasus situation:



You can see that the Golden Horde smashed everything (the enemies didn't oppose any kind of particular resistance).

make alliance and pay them money. in my campaign I have to pay the mongols 40000 every couple of turns to get a ceasefire with them. yes I could probably destroy them but its easier to pay them off for now.

try it and see how it goes

[Cakefirst]

That seems pretty damn awesome though. One of my earlier campaigns when I was new to the game, I played as Russia. I soon got invaded by the mongols and actually lost due to having wars on other fronts too. It ended with me having one last city with a last stand, a big battle went down, I lost, but damn I will never forget. All the luck to you though !

[DeliCiousTZM]

That seems pretty damn awesome though. One of my earlier campaigns when I was new to the game, I played as Russia. I soon got invaded by the mongols and actually lost due to having wars on other fronts too. It ended with me having one last city with a last stand, a big battle went down, I lost, but damn I will never forget. All the luck to you though !

I envy you, ive never had that experience.

You and Kievan rus blocks the mongol way for expansion. Bite the bullet and prepare for battle.

[minhnd6789]

I think you should have at least 1 really strong ally with you through the campaign so they can be the your shield and even sword in critical situations.

I dont think it is a really good idea when trying to monopoly the whole map by yourself or the player must be extreme superior.

In your case, I suggest you to ally with the Mongol, their troops are really powerful in battlefields, with mostly cavalries and mounted archers then they are superb reinforcement. If not, you can ally with Kievan, give them some settlements in hot places against the Mongol. You 2 can support each other to conquer. If you wish to be master of the world later, hammer the Kievan when the chance comes.

Months ago, I played Fatimid and allied with Kwarezmian. I applied that strategies, and it worked till the end of the campaign.

Hope it help, friend.

[Thekingtomb]

Thank you all for your great answers!

In fact I am allied with both Kievan Russia and Hungary (I have 3 mariages with them) from the beginning of the game and I really don't want to betray them since I will probably loose a lot of my reputation.
For now I am just doing the "ally with the Mongols" trick every two turns. It works out pretty well and I don't even have to pay them any money, they have stopped their expansion. I'll probably do that until I have secure the Italian borders though I have to be careful since the French and the Moors are much alike to try an attack on me as soon as I turn to the East. I have just secured Venice, Naples and Rome and I am getting loads of money so I'll probably soon stop to use that glitch in the game and face the Mongols as a true Byzantine Lord would do...
Yet I am still affraid to do it since the Mongols continue to receive more troops and my allies aren't definitely strong enough to face them. I have to admit though that I have loads of money, so I might be able to face them but I remember that in the vanilla version, open battles were a nightmare with them and I imagine that taking down these 15 packs won't be a pleasure party.

Any advices in open battles? I underline that I have good archers that can deploy stakes, somewhat nice (though few in numbers) heavy cavalry, regular heavy infantry. I am very afraid of their cavalry though because my anti-cavalry units suck and they have a better archer cavalry than mine.

[Thekingtomb]

And in fact I am no trying to conquer the whole map, what I would like to do is to restore the Justinian Byzantine Empire and maybe conquer Spain as well... (die Muslim "infidels"!). That's why I hesitate in going furthermore into the East and turning my Byzantine Empire unrealisticly big^^.

[Caracaos]

I'm seeing this too. Playing England EE (Almost at 1300 so yeoman archers!), and I have a holy land bastion from Antioch to Gaza. I toggle_fow to see how the mongols are doing and they literally have 2 lines of full stacks, each about 30 stacks in, trailing towards the last few territories of Novgorod. On top of that, they seem to have a dozen full-stacks in the spawn area near Khiva, as well as large armies near their border with the Byzantines. The byzas are the other super faction in the game, I have an alliance with them so I'm protected from the Mongols (who the byzas are also allied with), but I'm concerned about the Mongols expanding into Northern Europe (I assume that at this rate they'll be in northern Germany by 1350). They're just spawning unlimited stacks.

I'm not too fond of AI factions being stronger than me, so I'm thinking I'll want to conquer scandinavia, germany, and italy (already have GB and France) to create a western european counterweight.