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Thread: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

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    Default Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    The Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC:
    The Testimony of Chloe
    Publisher's Note
    This new edition of the Testimony contains newly discovered pages of additional material, including previously untranslated works on physics, substantial expositions of Devian ethics, and a fuller presentation of Avian epistemology. Published by the prestigious University of Legio press of the University of Legio, this edition is also enhanced by a new, more spacious design.

    Preface to the New Edition
    This new edition gives us the opportunity to provide interested readers with a generous selection of texts covering a wide range of topics in TWC philosophy. We would like to thank the acolytes of the University of Legio, as well as its supreme benefactor for their munificence in allowing us to live one more day without the sweet embrace of DEATH. Thank you.

    This work began as a general study in the doxography of TWC's diverse array of philosophical ethics; however, as the editors immersed themselves in the work, they realized the great utility of the principles put on display by the great Chloe and began to collect every fragment they could. It is not known how much of the words discovered are Chloe's own; as a biographer and doxographer, she drew on other sources. Most of them are either fragmentary or lost. As an anthologist, her work is indispensable in the study of a variety of fields. Whether she knew Diamat the Pteric or Inkus is not the concern of this book; rather, it is her articulation of their principles and those of their followers.

    Contents
    Section I: Holmian Philosophy
    ~Theology
    ~~I-1: Life of Vatter Holm, Excerpts
    ~~I-2: First Devians, 1.1-1.3
    ~~I-3: Letter to Colossus, 4.7-5.1
    ~~I-4: Principal Doctrines, Excerpts
    ~~I-5: Rebuttal
    ~Epistemology
    ~~I-6: Life of Vatter Holm, Excerpts

    Holmian Philosophy

    Holmian Theology
    [I-1] Lives of the Philosophers, Chloe, Fragments
    1. Vatter Holm was born a citizen and came to exercise great influence in the polished stone halls of the Scriptorium, according to all accounts. It is said, especially by his age-mates from the Devia, that he was raised in privileged circumstances by a doting and overbearing mother. This is reported in Lives of the Noble Devians. Regardless of his family situation, Holm made a name for himself above and beyond his family name, indeed excelling in most respects others who were in his class. After the death of Melon, he acted justly and bravely in the ensuing conflicts; 2.in doing so, he gained the trust of his fellow members and live a life of pleasant comfort. In this time he developed the system which bears his name, teaching his unique views.... 7. He began to teach philosophy when he was twenty years old. In book one of his Physics he addresses the notion that all Devians must worship Hex.

    [I-2] First Devians, Holm, 1.1-3
    1. Vatter Holm to the Devians, warmest greetings.
    2. For the sake of those who, my dear friends, are unable to shake free the burdens of unreasonable fear and superstitious terror, I have prepared a short summary of the longer books which I have composed. This summary aids in the memorization of my most general teachings, which I formulated by myself and with the help of no one else. By studying these principles and developing a firm grasp of them, you will arm yourself with the shining swords and glittering arrows of Reason, and it is by means of these things that you will be able to strike against superstition. Even those who are advanced in wisdom and years must know the general outlines of a thing, and this outline of a thing is structured swiftly and easily. We must approach them with an open mind and cast away the unreasonable doubts which hold us behind.
    3. You may sing songs and tell tales of the untamed Squid, and the furious Poach, and the merciless Fox, and the crooked-fanged Gigantus, and the venomous Y, and the well-greaved Red, and gleaming Dime, and the Omnipotent, lord of men. However, do not think that any offerings made or prayers bellowed into the great dark sky will make any difference. Hex are by definition blessed, and they want no things, and as such have no reason to think of the crooked dwellings of those who die [and are mortal]. Do not think that they cause the weariless Sun to rise or to set, or that they look upon the ones who are born. For the lot of the one who is born is to die, and to contemplate death overmuch is a sorrowful thing. But Hex, being blessed and in want of no thing, being full of all good things and having them all within their grasp, have no reason to contemplate death overmuch. For if they did so they would not be blessed, and they are blessed. But do not think that they contemplate sorrowful things. Further, do not burn offerings or sacrifice sacrifices in their names, for they need them not. What could a blessed and perfect being want from such offerings?...And a being who is blessed does not create trouble for itself or for any other thing, for to do so would be to breed conflict, and put an end to true blessedness, and we have agreed that Hex are blessed...To realize this is to be free from superstition.


    [I-3]
    Letter to Colossus, Holm, 4.7-5.1
    7. And as you do such things [just things], be sure to trust in Reason and cast away all superstition. As a candle set ablaze in an unlit room dispels wicked darkness, so does the force of Reason remove all false doubts and fears. Do not think that Hex brings about a change in the air or the fertility of the earth you plow. You may attend public festivals and take part in public rituals, but only if doing so is a just thing. 8. You may ascribe the name Squid to an act of prowess or that of Fox to a cunning deed, but do not think that it is by Squid or by Fox that these things exist, or that they have brought them into being. For the names 'cunning' and 'prowess' and 'harvest' are all names for things, just as Squid and Fox are names. 9. Names have arisen from the just calling of things in their shape. Large things, being larger, require a greater vocalization of them. Smaller things, mattering less, require less. Their essential and primary qualities are what define them as large or small. These essential and primary qualities are the things which define them according to their proper place and usage. Calling things by their essential and primary qualities is a just act.

    1. Hex have one essential and primary quality: that is their blessedness. To refer to Hex as anything but 'those who are blessed' is superstitious and unjust.


    [I-4]
    Principal Doctrines, Holm, Fragments
    I. That which is blessed has neither care nor trouble. Therefore, that which is blessed shows neither displeasure nor gratitude. For such things are a sign of weakness and care.
    II. That which is blessed feels only pleasure.
    III. The greatest pleasure is the absence of pain. Wherever there is an absence of pain, there is great pleasure.
    IV. When we say 'pleasure', we mean the absence of pain. Therefore, the greatest and smallest pleasures are the same, since both entail the absence of pain. Pleasure does not increase.
    V. Feelings of pleasure are feelings of being blessed. The blessed thing shows neither displeasure nor gratitude, for such things are signs of weakness. Therefore, things which cause gratitude or wrath are not pleasurable things. Therefore, these things should be of little concern to us.

    VI. Things which the desire of cause contention among men are not truly pleasurable. For nothing that is pleasurable will cause strife and woe. In this manner, there is no pleasure in caring overmuch for praise or public office.

    [I-5]
    Rebuttals, Inkus, Excerpt, Holmian speaker.
    127. Let us suppose, then, that you wish to honor Hex with public festivals and a fifth portion of every meal. For you claim that the reverence and worship of Hex is a just thing, and that Hex are swayed by our prayers to them. You will agree that Hex are blessed. Now, what is a blessed thing? Surely it is the happiness of self-sufficiency in occupying the highest place, whether at table or in the sky. For the happiest man does not rely on outside markets in bringing food to his table, and all of it comes from his own estates. Therefore, blessedness is self-sufficiency in providing everything in one's own power, needing nothing more. In such a way, Hex are blessed, for in their blessedness they are self-sufficient. 128. This world is full of sorrows and woe. Shrill horns blast the horrid-sounding news of war and accursed old age, a care to all who are born, stalks and kills men one by one. The sight of sorrow inspires sorrow in the breast, for as we have discussed above things produce reflections of themselves in the things which are seeing them. In this manner, a warrior becomes inured to the horrors of war, and a craftsman masters his art. For the reflections of the table, or the house, or the loaves of bread which he is making have so impressed themselves in his mind. In such a way, looking upon the world causes sorrow. 129. Sorrow causes pain, for the reflections of related things are similar in shape and size. In this way they attract similar things because they may try to fit in the same impression. In such a manner sickness attracts sullenness, and prosperity happiness. But sickness does not attract happiness, for its impression is too different. In such a way, however, sorrow brings pain and grief. Pain and grief, being related to sorrow, can not fit in the reflection of blessedness, and would tarnish it. Therefore, the thing that is blessed does not gaze upon sorrow. Hex are blessed; blessed things do not gaze upon sorrow; the world is sorrow; Hex do not gaze upon our world. 130. Hex are not swayed by the entreaties of men. For one man may wish harm on another, while that same man, who another man has wished great harm on, wishes material gain for himself. Therefore, not all prayers can come to pass. Further, blessed things, being the fount of all wisdom, can not be swayed by arguments, especially from those who have been born and will die. Because of this prayers serve no purpose.



    Holmian Epistemology
    [I-6]
    Lives of the Philosophers, Chloe, Excerpt
    8. His basic principles are as follows. First, that we perceive things not by their true shape and value but by the reflections which they give. These reflections are not fully solid and can pass through other things, leaving impressions in them. These impressions are strongest in the human breast, and it is through the breast that we are able to perceive things. A man will feel tired when he is out of breath, and when his breast heaves with perspiration. Similarly he will feel feelings of love and anger in his breast accordingly. Therefore, the breast is the correct place for these impressions, where they may be most soundly judged, and not in other places like the head or genitals. 9. We are able to know what sort of thing has left this impression as follows. Impressions have different shapes, sizes, and depths. A weak reflection will leave a light impression, and we will forget it soon. A feather in the wind striking the majestic wood of a tree leaves no dent but is buffeted further by stronger currents. Larger, stronger things leave broad, flat, and deep impressions in our breasts. But do not think that this will cause any physical change in our composition, for these reflections are not fully solid and can pass through other things. Smaller reflections leave slight impressions. Impressions can be soft, hard, sharp, or dull depending on the thing which has left them. All things are made of impressions. 10. Even the way in which we view our bodies is through an impression. For all things give off reflections, and our bodies are a thing. Therefore, the bodies of our fellow men give off impressions, and so do ours to them, and we see not bodies but the impressions of these bodies. We are not fully aware of the structure of our bodies, but we know that they are something alike the impressions we can perceive, unless the impression has been corrupted in its transmission to us. As a handful of earth passes through a sieve, larger clods of earth will stick in the grate, letting only finer particles through. In such a manner can our impressions be faulty.


    Holmian Hedonism
    [I-7]
    Letter to Adrian,Holm, Excerpt
    1. Vatter Holm to Adrian, greetings:
    2. For the sake of those who are consistently and constantly asking you about your relation to me, and of my relation to pleasure, and of our relation to pleasure together, those who are unable to fully grasp a true impression of happiness because they lack full understanding and do not know critical details, I have composed this summary and permit memorization. By reading and re-reading the words presented here by me, as well as taking it upon themselves to study my other works which I have worked on, these men will acquire and retain a true impression of the things which cause pleasure. 3. You must do and practice what I do and say, Adrian. Do such things consistently and constantly, for these are the elements of a life that is lived well. Believe that Hex are blessed, and that they are only blessed, for they require nothing more. Inscribe upon your mind this knowledge, and banish superstition. For the wise man does not fear Hex, having a clear knowledge of them: that they are blessed. In having this knowledge, the wise man is free of the pain of superstition. In such a manner he is free from pain. 4. Pleasure is the absence of pain. It is not, as some would have it, the company of dancing-girls or lute-players, but the secure knowledge that one is free of superstition, and that one's natural needs are taken care of. The stomach does not require endless feasting, nor indeed does it
    require a large amount of filling at all. A cup of water and some bread is enough to fill the desires of hunger. You may take a little wine for your stomach, if such a thing is necessary.

    5
    . For there are different kinds of desires which come upon us. There are desires natural and unnatural. Those which are natural come to men naturally, and those which are unnatural do not. Those which are unnatural are the pursuit of public office or unwarranted glory, or the esteem of one's peers that has been wrongfully gained. There are high desires, such as knowledge, which are natural, and low desires, such as hunger, which are also natural but lower than the high desires, being concerned with bodily matters. For while everything is a body some bodies are higher than others. 6. If you must have sex, do so with a dear partner, one with whom you are also bound and a friend to. It is not the excessive motion of the body or the sight of a nubile maiden or a hairless boy that stimulates the greatest pleasure. For it is unnecessary. A friend-mate is one whom you have intimate knowledge of, and knowledge is a high natural desire. Therefore, joining with a friend-mate is more pleasant than joining with a tambourine-smasher at a public party. But one can not have a true friend-mate without also being prudent and just. 7. Being prudent is being virtuous and knowledge of virtue, and the virtue of knowledge.




    Works Cited

    Works Cited
    First Devians, Vatter Holm. The first of three acknowledged letters from Holm to the Devian community.
    Letter to Colossus, Vatter Holm. Fragmentary letter to a now unknown strongman.

    Lives of the Philosophers, Chloe. Biographical work.
    Principal Doctrines, Vatter Holm. 36 principles of Holmian philosophy.
    Rebuttals, Inkus. A collection of various philosophical schools presented by dialogue.



    CHLOECHLOECHLOE

    Why not?
    I've been reading a lot of Hellenistic philosophy lately. I have also been doing a lot of TWC lately. WHY NOT BRING THE TWO TOGETHER IN A HILARIOUS SPOOF THAT IS HILARIOUS? Diamat, come.

    This thread will also serve a didactic purpose.
    Last edited by Legio; December 19, 2013 at 06:29 AM.

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    Magister Militum Flavius Aetius's Avatar δούξ θρᾳκήσιου
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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    Sounds interesting, I look forward to reading more

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    Diamat's Avatar VELUTI SI DEUS DARETUR
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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    I can't wait to read about TWC ethics and epistemology. Indeed, I find this an exciting topic.

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    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    I'm doing a lot of physics first! Ethics will be last.

    Avian physics should be particularly interesting.

    Updated the OP with another Holmian fragment.

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    Vađarholmr's Avatar Archivum Scriptorium
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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    I'm a firm believer in the Holmian theories.
    I will really be looking forward to reading more of this
    {I cook weird stuff}-{Patronised by the fearsome Chloe}
    „[...] ţví ađ međ lögum skal land vort byggja en eigi međ ólögum eyđa.“
    (The Frosta-thing law, 1260)

    Is acher in gaíth innocht,
    fu-fuasna fairggae findfolt:
    ní ágor réimm mora minn
    dond láechraid lainn ua Lothlind.

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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    Sooner than I expected! Well done, I'm following this.

    Hex have one essential and primary quality: that is their blessedness. To refer to Hex as anything but 'those who are blessed' is superstitious and unjust.
    My eyes have been opened to the truth...


    Under the patronage of the formidable and lovely Narf.

    Proud patron of Derpy Hooves, Audacia, Lordsith, Frodo45127 and Sir Adrian.

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    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    This is all very interesting and amusing. Looking forward to part II.
    Under the patronage of Pie the Inkster Click here to find a hidden gem on the forum!


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    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    Added some more Holmian doctrine on Hex.

    Brownie points for whoever figures out the Hellenistic school Holm was partly inspired by! It'll become more clear when I add Holmian physics.

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    Derpy Hooves's Avatar Bombs for Muffins
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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    Good work CHLOE. But Hex are our Benevolent Despots; do you expect them now to be immortal beings? If your response is yes, I must disagree; for the members of Hex are not eternal. Many years ago (i.e. last month), the blue dragon Y was appointed to fill a spot on the Hex and thus became a red dragon. In time, one of the Nine will resign and a new one will come to serve. It is wrong to call them blessed, but it is also wrong to say that they are not just. For Hex has laid out the foundations of our society here and thus hath removed us from the chaotic state of nature. They created justice and therefore created our society's morality. Thus by guiding us away from the state of nature and establishing justice, Hex is just.
    The only blessed being is Cahoma teh Sexeh Meloncat!

    Subscribed and awaiting part II.

    PS: Inkie and Diamat remember the divinity of the Meloncat and the heresy of the Lemoncat!




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    Kirila the Kitten's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    And me , shall I bring a New Order !?
    You should also write about the brony wars, avians and my failed attempt of communism.

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    Rex Anglorvm's Avatar Wrinkly Wordsmith
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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    That is one classy, witty and every so clever piece of creative writing my friend; so glad that you are writing on this board once more!

    Rep+

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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    Is it Platonism?

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    Adamat's Avatar Invertebrate
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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    A GLORIOUS thing.
    #JusticeForCookie #JusticeForCal #JusticeForAkar #JusticeForAthelchan

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    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius View Post
    Is it Platonism?
    Nope!

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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    Judging by the way you talk of hex as if they gods who did not need to be appeased - Epicurianism

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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    Yes! Holmian philosophy is loosely based off of Epicureanism. I added a brief note on Holmian epistemology.

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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    Boomshackalacka!

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    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    'I don't understand half of this matter half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of this half as well as it deserves.' .... ... anyway let me state that this thread is pure awesomeness Chloe, my hyper-beloved friend!

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    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    Deeply amusing.
    Hammer & Sickle - Karacharovo

    And I drank it strait down.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Physics, Epistemology, and Ethics of TWC

    Holmian philosophy is becoming popular again in academic circles lately. In this context, I would like to bring to your attention that a fragment of an early Devian letter to Vatter Holm has been rediscovered only a few weeks ago:

    Early Devian letter to Vatter Holm (fragment)
    1. […] to Vatter Holm, […] greetin [g(s)] […]
    2. […] saying that the Hex are by definition blessed. But what does this mean? Does not the term blessed imply that an entity with a higher authority has passed judgement upon the Hex and, as a consequence, has shown benevolence towards them? So, if we acted according to Reason, must we not ask who it was that blessed them and on what grounds the blessing came to pass? Would we not be superstitious by simply accepting that the Hex are blessed? And are we not being superstitious trying to derive all our reasoning from that presumption, without even understanding it?
    3. You are saying we should use the weapons of Reason and strike against superstition. But why should we do so? Indeed, if the world is sorrow (as your teachings say), and using Reason makes us recognize the world, we may conclude that using Reason will make us unhappy (the reflection of the sorrow leaving an impression in our breast, as your teachings say). Being unhappy is a bad thing. Must we then not conclude then that using Reason is also a bad thing?
    4. Now if Reason is a bad thing, and superstition is the opposite of reason, must we not conclude further that superstition is a good thing?
    5. If you look at us Devians, you will see that worshipping the Hex makes us happy. We presume that by worshipping the Hex, we will please them, and that being so pleased, they may grant us favours – health, prosperity, luck – which we feel unable to obtain out of our own accord. Indeed by imagining the favours we may be granted, we are already obtaining a portion of the happiness the favour itself would bestow upon us. So even if the favour is not granted, a portion of the happiness is obtained. As a consequence, if we are superstitious, the sum of happiness felt by us Devians is evermore greater than the sum of favours granted. And since happiness is a good thing, and since superstition brings about more happiness, superstition must also be a good thing.
    6. Now if Reason should make us understand that the Hex cannot be swayed by prayers and sacrifice, must we not as a consequence understand that all our prayers, all our sacrifice have been in vain? Must we then not further understand that we are fools, having spent our efforts in senseless prayer and sacrifice? If that were so, we must surely become unhappy, since no man wants to be a fool. And to become unhappy is a bad thing. But, if we understand that the Hex can be swayed by prayers and sacrifice, then all our efforts in the past have pleased the Hex, and since we may presume that in being pleased, they will grant us (further) favours, we will be happy. And this is a good thing.
    7. Regarding the Hex, you are saying that they do not gaze upon our world (for the world is sorrow, and then they would not be happy and blessed anymore). But where did you gain this knowledge? Are you not but a man of our world yourself? If you are, then you are not able to tell even what a single Devian is thinking, since no man can look into another man’s head. If a man wants to know the thoughts of another man, he has to ask and receive an answer. But can we presume that you have asked the Hex what they think, and that you received an answer? If we are to believe your own writings, we cannot believe so, since you are saying the Hex do not gaze upon our world. As a consequence, the Hex would not perceive your question, and even if they were to perceive it, they would not answer.
    8. You are saying that the Hex do gaze upon this world, as it is full of sorrow. But does this not imply that if the world was full of happiness, the Hex would gaze upon it? How then, if not by gazing upon it, do the Hex know that the world is full of sorrow, and that thes should not gaze upon it? Indeed, must we not conclude that the Hex are gazing upon our world if they know that it is full of sorrow? And if the Hex are gaz[…]

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