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Thread: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [UPDATE - 0.9 STABILITY TEST VERSION RELEASED 12/6/15 ]

  1. #61
    Dux's Avatar Warden of Westeros
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger-dude View Post
    Bolto, Karstark, and Frey have already been added. I was hopibg to find out which houses elsewhere supported the targs, and adding thise as playable houses. I did think of seperating Redwyne, but don't they have marriage ties with the Tyrells.

    In singleplayer, all houses have a percentage chance of breaking with the Iron Thrine and declaribg for Viserys or Dany. Those with previous targ loyalties will have a higher percentage.
    Sounds good

  2. #62
    ButtSwag's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    Don't forget that half the Vale supported the Targs, even though we don't know who they are, youcould just randomly pick
    Also will the minor houses start of in an alliance with there liege or as a vassal? I like vassals

  3. #63
    megells's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    Quote Originally Posted by ButtSwag View Post
    Don't forget that half the Vale supported the Targs, even though we don't know who they are, youcould just randomly pick
    Also will the minor houses start of in an alliance with there liege or as a vassal? I like vassals
    I don't think factions can start out as vassals in Medieval II... which is kind of retarded

  4. #64

    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    First of all I had an excellent time as playing the Targs. Just a list of a few awsome points and then some that need a little work.

    1. Dothraki troops work out perfectly. Terrible in siege but excellent in open fields. Plus there high attack balances them nicely with the Knights of Westeros. The only thing is that they seem to be called Alan Light Cavalry. But thats ok. Before the entire royal family got erased in battle with 8 full stacks of Renly, Joffery, Stannis, Martell and Tyrel troops I held the bridge beside Kings Landing with only Viserys, Dany, Mormont and 3 or four smashed half strength units of Dothraki cav. The ability of them to frighten enemy infantry is perfect because is adds to the effect of them crashing headlong in Westerosi Spearmen scattering them.

    2. Really enjoy the skins and style of offensive action as the Targs.

    3. Gotta love having the entire world at war with you screwing you up the ass so hard from all directions all at once. (Im serious it was the first total war game I have lose in years.

    4. Khal Drogo and the other Dothraki leaders are all unskinned for some reason. There troops are but the general unit themselves were not.

    5. Maybe balance some of the units a bit. Like maybe give the armored swordsmen or some other units better morale. I found the battles were very very quick. Like no sooner would the enemy reach me or vice vera and they broke rank and fled the field mercilessly hunted by the Dothraki.(On VH/VH) I understand this may seem to conflict with my earlier pro of the Dothraki breaking the enemy quickly but I dont think Armoured Swordsmen would break rank just as easy as a unit of Spear Militia even under these circumstances.

    Thats my two cents so far. I love the mod Id help but I have a ridiculous amount on my plate right now and dont really have much time :/

  5. #65
    Badger-dude's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    Quote Originally Posted by ButtSwag View Post
    Don't forget that half the Vale supported the Targs, even though we don't know who they are, youcould just randomly pick
    Also will the minor houses start of in an alliance with there liege or as a vassal? I like vassals
    I would like to have some of the Arryn houses in game. The more the merrier. I can simply make it a 50/50 or 60/40 chance of them declaring each way.

    At the moment, all minor houses are in an alliance with their lords, which should be strong enough for them not to 'rebel' under normal circumstances.

    'Normal circumstances' does not cover the scripted percentage of them turning to support Baratheon/Targ. For the sake of interesting gameplay, even House Stark can 'turn' (although perhaps only a 2% chance), just to keep things interesting. Tyrell and Dorne will have the highest chance, with Stark the lowest. Stannis and Renly cannot 'turn', but they can claim and abdicate kingship in the usual way AFTER Robert's death.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBSXYPNTS View Post
    First of all I had an excellent time as playing the Targs. Just a list of a few awsome points and then some that need a little work.

    1. Dothraki troops work out perfectly. Terrible in siege but excellent in open fields. Plus there high attack balances them nicely with the Knights of Westeros. The only thing is that they seem to be called Alan Light Cavalry. But thats ok. Before the entire royal family got erased in battle with 8 full stacks of Renly, Joffery, Stannis, Martell and Tyrel troops I held the bridge beside Kings Landing with only Viserys, Dany, Mormont and 3 or four smashed half strength units of Dothraki cav. The ability of them to frighten enemy infantry is perfect because is adds to the effect of them crashing headlong in Westerosi Spearmen scattering them.

    2. Really enjoy the skins and style of offensive action as the Targs.

    3. Gotta love having the entire world at war with you screwing you up the ass so hard from all directions all at once. (Im serious it was the first total war game I have lose in years.

    4. Khal Drogo and the other Dothraki leaders are all unskinned for some reason. There troops are but the general unit themselves were not.

    5. Maybe balance some of the units a bit. Like maybe give the armored swordsmen or some other units better morale. I found the battles were very very quick. Like no sooner would the enemy reach me or vice vera and they broke rank and fled the field mercilessly hunted by the Dothraki.(On VH/VH) I understand this may seem to conflict with my earlier pro of the Dothraki breaking the enemy quickly but I dont think Armoured Swordsmen would break rank just as easy as a unit of Spear Militia even under these circumstances.

    Thats my two cents so far. I love the mod Id help but I have a ridiculous amount on my plate right now and dont really have much time :/
    Thanks for the great feedback. Detailed response like these are my favourite kind of constructive criticism

    1+5) I am glad the Dothraki work as intended. Their high attack stat is to try and 'balance' them for hotseating (AR battles). As they are light cav, they would otherwise get slaughtered even by militia. In sieges, Dothraki units appear to suffer the most. I tend to use Dothraki units to besiege castles, and then move the Dothraki on while infantry assault the walls.

    As for morale, the Dothraki are intended to frighten individual units and be able to hold their own against Westerosi Knights. If left in melee they will suffer casualties, so they should use their numbers and speed to outflank and harass enemy units.

    4) The naming and the lack of generals was a known 'bug'.... More the rushed nature of the release than anything. This has been fixed in the latest version.
    Last edited by Badger-dude; November 09, 2012 at 06:27 AM.

  6. #66
    Badger-dude's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    Quote Originally Posted by megells View Post
    How about Yronwood and give them half of Dorne like in KORAH, this way you can make it so that the Martells are allied with the Targaryens as they should be yet not all of Dorne supports this. In my opinion the more factions (that have a chance of putting up a fight) the better. But they have to make sense. Another one could be Royce and give them all the regions of the Lords Declarant.
    Edit: By the way I disagree with Karstarks being their own faction, if you already have the Boltons then what's the point. Not to mention they're related to the Starks.
    The houses of Dorne are an option. Dorne is the area of Westeros i am least versed in. Do we have any information on the opinions of the other houses?

    Karstark was only added for varieties sake in the North, and to stop the Stark player surrounding and annihilating the Boltons in the early game. Ai controlled Karstark will not rebel under 'normal circumstances'. Player controlled is a different issue, in the same way a player-controlled Renly could declare for the Targs!

    Edit:

    Just as a note. I had a CTD around turn 12 while playing as Arryn and just ending every turn to watch how the Ai acted. Viserys and Robert killed each other in a field battle. I believe the CTD was caused by Dany not being in the family tree, and thus their being no faction leader for the Targ faction.

    I would be very interested in hearing if anyone can replicate this CTD. I know that there is nothing wrong with Robert dying. In fact, Robert dying is what makes the game interesting, as more people can declare for Kingship.
    Last edited by Badger-dude; November 09, 2012 at 06:41 AM.

  7. #67
    Uriyaca's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    I think that the minor houses idea is fantastic! I think that you should have Tyrell's and Martell's like 90 % for declaring allies with Targerians, but I think that Stark's really shouldn't have a percentage at all, because it is really weird to imagine Starks fighting with the Targerians. Perhaps with greyjoys, who have a deep hatred for Baratheon's and Starks should have the chance to declare independence, like 70 % or something like that.
    I can go all day about this, but with these addition's this seems to be a really fun game.
    Perhaps when the 0.2 alpha version comes up then you should start a hotseat, it will be super fun I highly recommend it. (but first you got to finish the symbols, and perhaps minor houses will be with AI, and if like you are the Arryn's and the minor houses decide to fight with Targerian's then you should try to regain control on the vale)

    Good job keep up the good work and can't wait for the 0.2 version!

  8. #68
    Badger-dude's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    A hotseat will come with the next version

    As for minor houses, they are pretty easy to implement. I am hoping to implement House Darry as well, but perhaps for now they will not be a fully fledged faction...

  9. #69

    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    House Royce is the second most powerful house in the Vale and one of the more high end lesser houses in Westeros (up there with the Freys and Manderlys). If you were to add any other faction for the Vale I'd think it'd be the Royces of Runestune, although it doesn't particularly fit in lore for them to break with Arryn.

  10. #70
    ButtSwag's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    Will the minor houses be fully re-skinned to their colours etc, strat models and all?
    I actually can't wait for the next version!

  11. #71
    Uriyaca's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    It seems to me that all these idea's will be a-lot of work, and perhaps on 0.2 you won't be able to release them...
    And also I have an idea about the minor houses, perhaps they will be united like a whole new faction, like if any of you ever played RTW BI, they could be like ERE Rebels or WRE Rebels.... and you should make the house who is the most powerfull from those "rebels" and make it their capital... because having a ton of different faction's of minor houses will be difficult because of their one castle they will have a bad economy and it would be very messy to have all these factions: for example in the north, if some settlement's decide to rebel, then they should be called "Northern rebels" with the Dreadfort as their capital... and such and such
    this should happen in the vale, the riverlands and the north

    I think that factions like Martell and Tyrell shouldn't be split up, because they are naturel allies to targ's

  12. #72
    Badger-dude's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    For 0.2 it is likely I will only have Bolton and Frey as minor houses. Based on Feedback, I will decide how to proceed. Most of the work in adding a new faction is editing the battle models database, which is long, boring, and easy to mess up.

  13. #73
    Uriyaca's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    That's too bad, because I can see my idea turning into a real fun game though... Just consider it OK?
    But what was all that talk on minor houses deciding to declare on targerians and percentage and such...
    When you decide to open a hotseat will these factions be playable?

  14. #74

    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger-dude View Post
    Thanks for the great feedback. Detailed response like these are my favourite kind of constructive criticism

    1+5) I am glad the Dothraki work as intended. Their high attack stat is to try and 'balance' them for hotseating (AR battles). As they are light cav, they would otherwise get slaughtered even by militia. In sieges, Dothraki units appear to suffer the most. I tend to use Dothraki units to besiege castles, and then move the Dothraki on while infantry assault the walls.

    As for morale, the Dothraki are intended to frighten individual units and be able to hold their own against Westerosi Knights. If left in melee they will suffer casualties, so they should use their numbers and speed to outflank and harass enemy units.

    4) The naming and the lack of generals was a known 'bug'.... More the rushed nature of the release than anything. This has been fixed in the latest version.
    No problem. I figured the better details the better it will get. As I played on some more I did however notice the ai seemed to do nothing if I was not involved. Sure they battled (I used toggle_fow to observe) and that was nice but they never seemed to accomplish anything. By turn 40 MAYBE 3 provinces were in the hands of factions that did not own them at the beginning unless I as the player was involved in the capture. I know this is difficult just saying that it kind of sucked that the Starks sat up North doing totally nothing as the Targaryens stampeded across the Crownlands, Stormlands, and Vale smashing everything in their path. Im guessing that with the declarations in the next version this will mostly be fixed. Just worth noting for the moment.

    Secondly and as an afterthought one thing I vastly enjoyed was that with Dany as faction heir her family tree become the ruling family if and when Viserys is decapitated by Robert Baratheons mighty warhammer XD

  15. #75
    Badger-dude's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    Quote Originally Posted by uriyaca View Post
    That's too bad, because I can see my idea turning into a real fun game though... Just consider it OK?
    But what was all that talk on minor houses deciding to declare on targerians and percentage and such...
    When you decide to open a hotseat will these factions be playable?
    That has already been scripted for all the normal Westeros factions, the Freys, and the Boltons. When I have enough content for minor factions, I'll add them in as well I just want to get a polished product released as v 0.2

  16. #76
    Badger-dude's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    Attatched are some screenshots showing the 'Declaration' system at work. Every game is different. The houses 'declare' at random times, and should offer a different challenge everytime.

    I sat a game out as the Targ's and took a few screenshots of the ensuring carnage. I didn't lift a finger to help any of my allies, and only defended Tarth from Renly and Joff.

    The latter screenshots show the outcome. Martell and Tyrell declared for the Targs. Without my help, however, Lannister and Baratheon waged a bloody war against House Tyrell. Martell, on the other hand, appeared to be rushing to the Targ's aid, caring a bloody swathe across the Stormlands.

    Greyjoy chose independence.

    With the randomised percentages, it really can bring a fresh challenge to each game. I'm probably going to add a few delay conditions, to avoid half a dozen declarations on the first couple of turns.
    Last edited by Badger-dude; November 09, 2012 at 06:48 PM.

  17. #77
    Dux's Avatar Warden of Westeros
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    Looks good mate

  18. #78
    Uriyaca's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    Looks great! I see this game will have a-lot of action to it!

  19. #79
    Badger-dude's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    I have finally finished work on the latest version

    Lots of improvements.

    I will do a little more polishing this time (I have just overcome a rather nasty bug!) so you'll have to wait a little longer for the release, but hopefully it will be worth it

  20. #80
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    Default Re: [RELEASED SUBMOD] Fire and Blood [Updated 05/11/12]

    Here's a little sneak peak...

    Image 1: A peak at the Frey faction. They have access to cheap Pike Militia, who are excellent for defending chokepoints (the bridges around the twins).

    And yes, there are now two twins!

    Image 2: Robert Baratheon. Now with added Hammertime!

    Image 4: Ice, especially for Dux

    Image 5: A little feature I concocted called the 'Isle of Diplomats' It allows for quick diplomatic exchanges without having to cross half the map! Good for both hotseats and games against the AI

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