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Thread: Confidence in Moderators

  1. #1

    Default Confidence in Moderators

    I'm curious about something and I hope that we can generate some discussion regarding this particular topic given recent events.
    With Honour&Glory our now most controversial member (I don't necessarily think so, but that is beside the point), I thought about the fact that if the Imperator allows us to vote for moderators, if it was also possible to draft some legislation that involved allowing for vote of no-confidence in junior moderators, indicating to the Staff that the curia was dissatisfied with a person that we had put into power.
    I'm not suggesting that we draft this for Censor...erm Honour&Glory, and i would likely vote against such a motion of him, so please don't confuse my interest in the subject with the situation that made me consider it.
    I realise that it is a highly controversial topic and it may be subject to a staff veto, but I'm wondering how far staff would let us go with such a piece of legislation? I also recoginize that it is potentially open to abuse, and thus perhaps would need guidelines to protect against such a bill.
    But I also think that it is a natural extension of the ability to elect moderators.

    Thoughts anyone? Or am I just thinking crazy thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Wild Bill Kelso's Avatar Protist Slayer
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    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    Why dont people simply express thier concerns in the relevant moderator thread in the suggestus? If you feel your concerns are still not being listened to, you should then bring them to the attention of the senior staff. Seems better than trying to drag peoples reputations through the mud.
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  3. #3
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    not a bad idea in theory, but in practice, I think would just create even more theatric drama in the curia (and we all know we've plenty of that)

    and btw, it's Honor&Glory
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Bill Kelso
    Why dont people simply express thier concerns in the relevant moderator thread in the suggestus? If you feel your concerns are still not being listened to, you should then bring them to the attention of the senior staff. Seems better than trying to drag peoples reputations through the mud.
    I agree with this in principle, but in practice, look how many threads there are about honour&glory (I changed his name to the proper spelling ) that are open and public to everyone... My suggestion is for if a moderator is grossly disfavoured with the Curia, that we have a formal means of expressing this, so that there is perhaps less abuse and more protections for the moderator against people popping threads up left-right-and-centre.
    If there was a moderator that people didn't like, I think it would be far better that we had a curial thread in the Proth that he can defend himself in and where we can discuss such an action privately. That way, it also gets people to put up or shut up, so that we don't string issues around TWC about moderators for days on end until someone closes them and nothing gets anywhere. I'm not a fan of posting threads about "low quality civs" or "remove this guy," because they do harm someone's reputation moreso than a process which is more private than the Suggestus. Feedback threads are good for little issues, but i'm suggesting something for when we have a moderator that we simply think doesn't fit.
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  5. #5
    imb39's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    The trouble with voting in terms/confidence etc is that moderators might end up doing what is popular as opposed to what is right.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    Look, as a mod I know its our job to annoy you guys sometimes.

    Do we want Moderators scared and acting in such a way as to please the "mob" so they do not act on things that they think will make them unpopular?

    I oppose this because Staff have gone out of their way to gain feelback, we all have our own threads and we always take in complaints, find me another forum this popular and big with mods who take so much time to make sure you guys stay happy.

    Generally when you have a complaint PM a senior staff member and we discuss it in staff.
    Well, if I, Belisarius, the Black Prince, and you all agree on something, I really don't think there can be any further discussion.
    - Simetrical 2009 in reply to Ferrets54

  7. #7

    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Belisarius
    Look, as a mod I know its our job to annoy you guys sometimes.

    Do we want Moderators scared and acting in such a way as to please the "mob" so they do not act on things that they think will make them unpopular?

    I oppose this because Staff have gone out of their way to gain feelback, we all have our own threads and we always take in complaints, find me another forum this popular and big with mods who take so much time to make sure you guys stay happy.

    Generally when you have a complaint PM a senior staff member and we discuss it in staff.
    I agree with all of that actually.
    The problem as I see it, is that when we have a moderator that has done something unpopular, people post threads calling for their removal and such. I don't think that that is appropriate and if some civitates think that a moderator should be removed, I think it more appropriate that we discuss it in a constructive manner behind closed doors than plastering TWC with threads calling for his or her removal and criticizing his style. If people are doing that, then the moderator feedback thread is obviously not enough for their concerns.
    What we have now is a lynch mob, and what I am suggesting is that we get rid of that, really and turn it into something more constructive. Perhaps this isn't the best solution, and that is why I didn't spend time drafting a bill, but just thought we could all discuss how to best handle this very sensitive topic.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Bill Kelso
    Why dont people simply express thier concerns in the relevant moderator thread in the suggestus?
    Honor&Glory's once got closed...
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by gigagaia
    I agree with all of that actually.
    The problem as I see it, is that when we have a moderator that has done something unpopular, people post threads calling for their removal and such. I don't think that that is appropriate and if some civitates think that a moderator should be removed, I think it more appropriate that we discuss it in a constructive manner behind closed doors than plastering TWC with threads calling for his or her removal and criticizing his style.
    I always say that if someone has a problem with a moderator all they have to do is PM us. We discuss every single complaint. But people
    dont take any notice and just post it anyways and when we close it they scream Conspiracy!


    If people are doing that, then the moderator feedback thread is obviously not enough for their concerns.
    What we have now is a lynch mob, and what I am suggesting is that we get rid of that, really and turn it into something more constructive. Perhaps this isn't the best solution, and that is why I didn't spend time drafting a bill, but just thought we could all discuss how to best handle this very sensitive topic.
    I disagree, I think people have all the power they need and more, but the problem is that they choose not to use the official methods and rather go public, the PM function is enough.
    Well, if I, Belisarius, the Black Prince, and you all agree on something, I really don't think there can be any further discussion.
    - Simetrical 2009 in reply to Ferrets54

  10. #10
    Simetrical's Avatar Former Chief Technician
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    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    There's no reason you couldn't start Ostrakon proceedings to reduce H&G to basic Senatorii or Patrician. Of course, it would probably be vetoed.
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  11. #11
    imb39's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Simetrical
    There's no reason you couldn't start Ostrakon proceedings to reduce H&G to basic Senatorii or Patrician. Of course, it would probably be vetoed.
    The Curia cannot strip a moderator of his rank. This is purely within the remit of Archer. No one else.

  12. #12
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Simetrical
    There's no reason you couldn't start Ostrakon proceedings to reduce H&G to basic Senatorii or Patrician. Of course, it would probably be vetoed.
    Actually, technically there's nothing saying one needs to hold civitate ranks to continue to be a moderator, and on their resignation they would return straight to senatorii... staff ranks are not in the same "chain" as civitate ranks.

  13. #13
    Felixion's Avatar 'BULLIT'
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    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    I've seen a good bit of moderators come and go in TWC, and it seems in the beginning, almost all of them have to feel it out. Yes, people are annoyed for a bit, but it's all resolved once they learn the limits of their power. I'm sure H&G will find his place, as have many mods before him who were criticized.
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  14. #14
    Fabolous's Avatar Power breeds Arrogance
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    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by the Grim Squeaker
    Actually, technically there's nothing saying one needs to hold civitate ranks to continue to be a moderator, and on their resignation they would return straight to senatorii... staff ranks are not in the same "chain" as civitate ranks.
    There used to be. It was removed when staff decide to let Archer rape the Syntagma and let any person any admin wants be made admin.
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    Lusted's Avatar Look to the stars
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    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    So you object to having new admins who have experience at others sites being bought in to help out for a bit then Fab?
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Fabolous
    There used to be. It was removed when staff decide to let Archer rape the Syntagma and let any person any admin wants be made admin.

    Not true, we all asked and he didnt make us...

    Does the new syntagma restrict the Imperator not to do this?
    Well, if I, Belisarius, the Black Prince, and you all agree on something, I really don't think there can be any further discussion.
    - Simetrical 2009 in reply to Ferrets54

  17. #17
    Fabolous's Avatar Power breeds Arrogance
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    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusted
    So you object to having new admins who have experience at others sites being bought in to help out for a bit then Fab?

    No… well yes. Let me explain. I always have and probably always will object to members being made admins who are not entrenched in the community. This is not any type of Curialist issue either, when I raised this issue Mithras’ responses indicated he felt the same way.

    Further, I hesitate to think that the admins need could not be found within our Curia. We have two ON admins here, not to mention the other various members of the Curia who could likely do the job just fine.

    However I always try to give staff and Archer the benefit of the doubt and believe that they generally make what they think is the best choice. I do not even try to pretend to know everything that Archer knows about the situation. So while from my knowledge I object to his choices, I cannot say that anyone is wrong with any certainty.


    Quote Originally Posted by Belisarius
    Not true, we all asked and he didnt make us...
    I'm sorry, what is not true that you all asked but he didn't make you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belisarius
    Does the new syntagma restrict the Imperator not to do this?
    The new Syntagma does not restrict the Imperator in any way.
    Last edited by Fabolous; July 29, 2006 at 06:06 PM.
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  18. #18
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    gigagaia, it's simple, if you are hacked off with a moderator, any moderator up to and including the Consuls, then all you need do is PM one of the Triumvirate and we will look into it.

    If the moderator has acted badly then the mistake will be fixed and apprpriate appologies issued.

    If the moderator is being too harsh/lenient/friendly/unfriendly/attacking free speach/preventing free speach (pick your favourite complaint) then we will deal with that also and work with the moderator in question to correct that particular flaw.

    However, if we feel a witch-hunt is going on then we reserve the right to close ranks and protect the moderator in question (and no, I'm not particularly referring to H&G). All moderators are volunteers who are trying to give something back to this community, they should not have to go through massive amounts of grief as a result of this.

    So, if you are fecked off with a moderator PM me and I'll happily talk to you about it.

    I'm sorry, what is not true that you all asked but he didn't make you?
    The new Syntagma does not restrict the Imperator in any way.
    I know, I wrote the new syntagma so blame me if you want, and give some thought as to why an arch-curialist like myself wrote it in the way it was written..........
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  19. #19
    Fabolous's Avatar Power breeds Arrogance
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    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacticalwithdrawal
    I know, I wrote the new syntagma so blame me if you want, and give some thought as to why an arch-curialist like myself wrote it in the way it was written..........
    I have given it much thought, not to worry. I just object to some. It isn't really a concern anymore. The posistion of things right now are clear.

    Though thats not to say certain changes couldn't make that posistion different, but that is for when those changes occur. (Meh, that sentances doesn't make much sense unless you know what changes I am talking about, but everyone will know at some point)
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  20. #20
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Confidence in Moderators

    Hmmm wrote a bleedin huge page to tac and it didn't send I'll try again tomorrow. Bloody site traffic. Needless to say don't want to write it again on a saturday night after copious beer consumption. So I'll summarise...

    Civ's can elect mods but not dismiss, how truly strange. Imagine a democracy with politicians only elected once, sounds like bollocks to me.

    Pter

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