Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

  1. #1
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Amon Amarth
    Posts
    12,572

    Default Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

    Quote Originally Posted by julianus heraclius
    best to make a new thread on this.

    As suggested by julianus heraclius, in this thread I want to discuss in which way the transformations in the administrative structure of the Empire before and after the Tetrarchic Reform, can be implemented in Restitutor Orbis, that is, how to depict in the Map of RO the passage from the Old Provinciae to the New Diocesis.


    Here the Map of the Provinciae of the Empire in 117 AD from Wiki:



    The Provinciae at the time of Severus (From Barnes: ‘The New Empire of Diocletian and Constantine’):

    Creta et Cyrene – Aegyptus – Arabia – Phoenicia – Cyprus – Syria Coele – Mesopotamia – Palestina – Cilicia – Cappadocia – Galatia – Bitinia et Pontus –Asia –Lycia et Panphilia – Thracia – Poesia Superior – Poesia Inferior – Dacia – dalmatia – Macedonia – Achaia – Epyrus – Pannonia Superior – Pannonia Inferior – Noricus – Raetia – Agri Decumates – Germania Superior – Germania Inferior – Alpes Maritimae – Alpes Cotiae – Alpes Garaiae et Poenninae – Bellica – Gallai Lugdunenis – Gallia Narbonensis – Aquitania – Britannia Superior – Britannia Inferior – Baetica – Hispania – Lusitania – Mauretania Tingitana – Mauretania Caesariensis – Africa – Sardinia – Corsica – Sicilia – Numidia.



    *****

    Map of the Empire during the Tetrarchy from Wiki:






    The New Dioceses and Provinciae of Diocletianus (From the ‘Elenco di Verona’ or Verona list' or Laterculus Veronensis(*) rectified by Barnes, and from the work of Stephen Williams: ‘Diocletian and the Roman recovery’)

    DIOCESIS ORIENTIS:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Lybia Superior – Lybia Inferior – Thebais – Aegyptus Iovia (created in 314-315) – Aegyptus Herculia (created in 314-315) – Arabia Nova – Augusta Lybanensis – Palestina – Phoenicia – Syria Coele – Augusta Euphratensis – Cilicia - Isauria – Cyprus – Mesopotamia – Osrhoenae.

    DIOCESIS PONTICA:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Bithynia – Cappadocia – Galatia – Paphlagonia – Diospontus – Pontus Polemoniacus – Armenia.

    DIOCESIS ASIANA:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Lycia et Panphylia – Phrygia I – Phrygia II – Asia – Lydia – Caria – Pisidia – Hellespontus.

    DIOCESIS THRACIAE:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Europa – Rhodopes – Thracia – Haemonia – Schytia – Moesia Inferior

    DIOCESIS MOESIARUM:
    Dacia – Dacia Ripensis – Moesia Superior – Dardania – Macedonia – Tessalia – Achaia – Prevatilana – Epyrus Novus – Epyrus Vetus – Creta.

    DIOCESIS PANNONIARUM:
    Pannonia Inferior – Savensis - Dalamtia – Valeria – Pannonia Superior - Noricus Ripensis – Noricus Mediterraneum.

    DIOCESIS ITALIAE:
    Venetia et Istria – Aemilia et Liguria – Flaminia et Picenum – Tuscia et Umbria – Campania – Abulia et Calabria – Lucania et Brutius – Sicilia – Sardinia – Corsica – Alpes Cotiae – Raetia.


    DIOCESIS HISPANIARUM:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Baetica – Lusitania – Carthaginensis – Galleacia – Tarraconensis – Mauretania Tingitana.

    DIOCESIS AFRICAE:
    Africa Proconsularis – Byzacena – Tripolitania – Numidia Cirtensis – Numidia Militiana – Mauretania Caesariensis – Mauretania Sitifensis.


    DIOCESIS GALLIARUM:
    Belgica I – Belgica II – Germania I – Germania II – Sequania – Lugdunensis I – Lugdunensis II – Alpes Graiae et Poenninae.


    DIOCESIS VIENNENSIS:
    Viennensis – Narbonensis I _ Narbonensis II – Aquitania I – Aquitania II – Alpes Maritimae.

    DIOCESIS BRITANNIARUM:
    Britannia I – Britannia II _ Maxima Caesariensis – Flavia Caesariensis.

    Map of the Diocese and provinciae during the Thetrarchy:





    My Proposal about the new DIOCESES in RESTITUTOR ORBIS:
    My proposal comes from an old Italian Mod Of RTW 1.2, called Mare Nostrum: The idea is this: When the player reaches the Age of the Reform, he saves and he exits from the Game and then he goes in the folder of the Maps, here he finds a New Reformed Map, he charges the new Map on the current Map of the Game, he deletes the Map RWM file, and then he restarts the game, he charges the saved game and voilā! He is in the Reformed Empire of Diocletianus!!!
    Pro:
    - Not many scripts, easy for the player.
    - Quick and elegant solution for the Administrative Aspects of the Reform.
    - It can be possible because the new map doesn’t change the towns, the rivers or the roads and so on, so IMO it is an easy way to bypass the issue.
    In the Italian Mod they used this system to prevent the destruction of the Dacians by the AI: The spirit was if we cannot change the AI we must force the AI to do what we want, so until the year 100 AD, the terrain to reach Dacia was impassable.
    Cons: I do not know if the idea is practicable (IMO it is, anyway I’m not a modder so…)





    ******





    (*)
    Laterculus Veronensis or Verona List is a list of Roman Provinces from the times of the Roman emperors Diocletian and Constantine The list is transmitted only in a 7th-century manuscript, which is preserved in the Chapter House Library (Biblioteca Capitolare) in Verona. The most recent critical edition is that of Timothy Barnes (1982)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Oriens (18 [actually 17] provinces)[1] Libya Superior; [2] Libya Inferior; [3] Thebais; [4] Aegyptus Iovia; [5] Aegyptus Herculia; [6] Arabia (Nova); [7] Arabia; [8] Augusta Libanensis; [9] Palaestina; [10] (Syria) Phoenice; [11] Syria Coele; [12] Augusta Euphratensis; [13] Cilicia; [14] Isauria; [15] Cyprus; [16] Mesopotamia; [17] OsrhoenePontica (7 provinces)[18] Bithynia; [19] Cappadocia; [20] Galatia; [21] Paphlagonia; [22] Diospontus; [23] Pontus Polemoniacus [24] Armenia MinorAsiana (9 provinces)[25] (Lycia et) Pamphylia; [26] Phrygia Prima; [27] Phrygia Secunda; [28] Asia; [29] Lydia; [30] Caria; [31] Insulae; [32] Pisidia; [33] HellespontusThracia (6 provinces)[34] Europa; [35] Rhodope; [36] Thracia; [37] Haemimontus; [38] Scythia; [39] Moesia InferiorMoesiae (11 provinces)[40] Dacia [Mediterranea]; [41] [Dacia Ripensis]; [42] Moesia Superior/Margensis; [43] Dardania; [44] Macedonia; [45] Thessalia; [46] [Achaea]; [47] Praevalitana; [48] Epirus Nova; [49] Epirus Vetus [50] CretaPannoniae (7 provinces)[51] Pannonia Inferior; [52] (Pannonia) Savensis; [53] Dalmatia; [54] Valeria; [55] Pannonia Superior; [56] Noricum Ripense; [57] Noricum MediterraneumBritanniae (6 [actually 4] provinces)[58] Britannia Prima; [59] Britannia Secunda; [60] Maxima Caesariensis; [61] Flavia CaesariensisGalliae (8 provinces)[62] Belgica Prima; [63] Belgica Secunda; [64] Germania Prima; [65] Germania Secunda; [66] Sequania; [67] Lugdunensis Prima; [68] Lugdunensis Secunda; [69] Alpes Graiae et PoeninaeViennensis (7 provinces)[70] Viennensis; [71] Narbonensis Prima; [72] Narbonensis Secunda; [73] Novem Populi; [74] Aquitanica Prima; [75] Aquitanica Secunda; [76] Alpes MaritimaeItalia (16 [actually 12] provinces)[77] Venetia et Histria; [78] [Aemilia et Liguria]; [79] Flaminia et Picenum; [80] Tuscia et Umbria; [81] [Latium et Campania]; [82] Apulia et Calabria; [83] Lucania [et Brutii]; [84] [Sicilia]; [85] [Sardinia]; [86] Corsica; [87] Alpes Cottiae; [88] RaetiaHispaniae (6 provinces)[89] Baetica; [90] Lusitania; [91] Carthaginiensis; [92] Gallaecia; [93] Tarraconensis; [94] Mauretania TingitanaAfrica (7 provinces)[95] (Africa) Proconsularis/Zeugitana; [96] Byzacena; [97] [Tripolitania]; [98] Numidia Cirtensis; [99] Numidia Militiana; [100] Mauretania Caesariensis; [101] Mauretania [Sitifensis]/Tubusuctitana

    Sources:
    - "The New empire of Diocletian and Constantine" by Barnes.

    - "DIOCLETIAN and the Roman recovery" by Stephen Williams.

    - All the Maps of the Dioceses are from wiki.

    - INTERACTIVE MAP OF THE EMPIRE AT THE TIME OF CONSTANTINUS.

    .

  2. #2

    Default Re: Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

    My proposition would be to keep the provinciae (with the 270 campaign and the possible 258 campaign), but include Dioceses bonus and ancilliaries. IMO, it would be a pain in the ass to each time make the changes in the folders.Also,maybe the player don't want to take administratives reforms and keep the old structures like they were in the early empire.

    However. The 284 campaign could include a redesigned map based on your fine pictures and informations on the Dioceses.

    Envers et contre tous...et c'est tant mieux ainsi ! Ze political profile



  3. #3
    Knonfoda's Avatar I came, I read, I wrote
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Vindomora
    Posts
    2,716

    Default Re: Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

    I agree with Diocletianus, I do prefer the old style provinces. The diocese style map is already in use in IBSAI, so perhaps that could be copied or altered for the later campaigns? It would be nice to have the option NOT TO follow Roman history, especially in the administrative departments.

  4. #4
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Amon Amarth
    Posts
    12,572

    Default Re: Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

    Guys, listen please: in my proposal the palyer can always choose, if he wants, he exits from the game and he charges the new map, if he doesn't want the Dioceses, well, no problem, he doesn't exit from the game and he doesn't charge the new Map with the Dioceses, so he remains with the old Provinciae! But he can still implement other aspects of the Reform!

    Isn't simple? And elegant? And Intelligent? and super smart?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

    Indeed it is!
    炸鸡

  6. #6
    tomySVK's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    1,838

    Default Re: Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

    Here is the map of Roman provinces at 230 AD itīs more accurate map for Third century crisis mod as the one posted by Diocle (please donīt be angry at me ). It shows the conquests of Septimius Severus and his administrative reforms - the split up of Britannia and Syria into two provinces, new provinces of Osrhoene and Mesopotamia:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Here is the map of Roman Imperium at 271 AD:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    I hope it will help the Team
    Last edited by tomySVK; October 28, 2012 at 11:34 AM.

  7. #7
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Amon Amarth
    Posts
    12,572

    Default Re: Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

    Angry? Me? With you? For these wonderful maps? Are you jokong Tomy?...How can I be angry for such a wonderful work?...tomy! tomy! tomy!...how many time have I to repeat you that you are like a super-hero for me!


    + rep!



    .

    Side poisoned note for tomy ():
    If you read the list of the Provinciae I wrote, my dear tomy (the images are important but also the text is important!) you'll read all the names of your map, yes, because the text of Williams quoted all the names of the Provinciae under Severus.

    .

  8. #8
    tomySVK's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    1,838

    Default Re: Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

    I know you wrote this, but you didnīt post the correct map, so I posted this two maps, because I found them and they better suits your description than as the one you posted. I didnīt mean to be rude or something, I just wanted to post these maps and share them.

  9. #9
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Amon Amarth
    Posts
    12,572

    Default Re: Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

    Your choices are always wise and correct Mylord!

  10. #10
    Emperor Caesar's Avatar Ordinarius
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    756

    Default Re: Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

    looking good the option would be nice but i don;t know which one would be a more effective way of running the empire. The dioceses might cause more of a split if there is multiple emperors. I want a united empire.
    Avatar courtesy of Joar.

  11. #11
    Lionheart's Avatar Decanus
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    500

    Default Re: Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

    I would not mind playing in this option after the reforms. besides i think it could make the map even more chalenging specially regarding the rival emperors like the gallic emperors or the followers of zenobia in the east. I intesresting trait could also be if the majority of the province let's sau for instance Lusitania. They started the game loyal to the western emperor, then and if the population or the economic condition in the let's say the gallic empire become better it will be interesting to see the province following the gallic emperor or vice-versa. Dont not it that will be possible but if it was possible the game will become alot more chalenging and interesting. However i do not now if that is ven possible to do. But could be a interesting ideia mainly because the 3 century crises was about usurpers, brakways from the imperial line and german/persian attacks both in the west and in the east.
    Proud member of EB: Novus Ordo Mundi





  12. #12
    tomySVK's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    1,838

    Default Re: Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

    Diocle asked my to find good map of the tetrarchy, with the Dioceses and the division in four parts.

    Here is the map of situation in 294 AD:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  13. #13
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Amon Amarth
    Posts
    12,572

    Default Re: Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

    Guys, have you understood, that here between us, in IBFD Forums is present a true Super-Hero like (But better!) those of the Marvel? Tomy you are.....too great to describe your qualities! I'm proud being a friend of you!
    + rep!

  14. #14
    tomySVK's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    1,838

    Default Re: Provinciae and Dioceses in Restitutor Orbis

    Thank you

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •