What Was The Most Decisve Battle?

[TenkiSoratoti]

Are we talking about decisive tactical victories that paved the way for major strategic progress? If not then here's my list:

The Battle of Quebec (1759) - Up until this point the British had been inflicted with some serious let downs while trying to take French forts (it was pretty difficult with limited amounts of man power). At Quebec, the British first needed to scale a cliff and then engage the French on the Plains of Abraham, here the first Volleys were fired that would decide the fate and language of North America.

The Battle of Savannah (July 22, 1779) - Combined American (1,500) and French (3,500) against the British (2,500). Fairly desicive British victory. It was a 1st Yorktown if you like, only this time the odds in numbers weren't so heavily stacked against the British.

The Battle of Camden (August 16, 1780) - Perhaps the bloodiest battle of the entire war and probably the worst 'pitched defeat' (Saratoga and Yorktown were surrenders against impossible odds not 'pitched defeats'). Decisive British victory.

The Battle of Kings Mountain (October 7, 1780) - Loyalist against Patriot. The Loyalist defeat here signalled the beginning of the end of the Southern theatre and the road to Yorktown.

The Battle of Queenston Heights (October 13, 1812) - American invasion attempt (6,000) of Canada put to flight by a British force (1,500).

The Battle of Crysler's Farm (November 11, 1813) - Yet Another American invasion attempt (3,000) defeated by a British Regular/Canadian Militia force (750).

The Battle of New Orleans (January 8, 1815) - A prelude to the Charge of the Light Brigade perhaps. A British force attack heavily barricaded positions on open ground with cannon to the left and right of them with massed muskets and cannon to the fore. A ticket for disaster. The finest infantry in the world forced to withdraw by a band of pirates and militia. The worst and most tragic British/Highlander defeat in America. Full Stop.

That's the American theatre for me anyway.

[imthefrgt10]

The Battle of New Orleans (January 8, 1815) - A prelude to the Charge of the Light Brigade perhaps. A British force attack heavily barricaded positions on open ground with cannon to the left and right of them with massed muskets and cannon to the fore. A ticket for disaster. The finest infantry in the world forced to withdraw by a band of pirates and militia. The worst and most tragic British/Highlander defeat in America. Full Stop.

That's the American theatre for me anyway.

the battle of new orleans- that happened after the peace treaty was technically signed right? or am i thinking somewhere else

[imb39]

For me the most decisive, as in world changing, battles are Hastings, Saratoga and Teutoburgerwald - in no particular order...

Hastings

- Changed England's focus from Scanidanvia to Europe
- Introduced French into the Anglo-Saxon language
- Began the transformation that eventually changed the world - the British Empire and the latest lingua franca (yes, the irony is amazing).

Sarratoga

- Secured America's independence and formed what was to become the world's preemminent super power
- Forced England into focussing from America into Asia and, therefore, India was the replacement.
- Destroyed France's global empire ambitions, in effect.

Teutoburgerwald

- Defined Roman border in central Europe
- Created a schism that has remined until this very day - Latin/Germanic coutrnies
- WW1/WW2 fought along this schism

Yes, this is terribly eurocentric. Apologies as this further highlights my ignorance of the East...

Arguably, Tsushima is another as it was the first time a European power was fully defeated in a war, signalled Japans arrival as a super power and we all know where that led to...

[TenkiSoratoti]

the battle of new orleans- that happened after the peace treaty was technically signed right? or am i thinking somewhere else

Two weeks after the treaty was signed. There were other engagements still going on elsewhere aswell. I think they un-covered a fort not long ago that was overun by the British after New Orleans. Dunno any details.

The final battle to be fought between Britain/Canada against America was The Battle of the Windmill (ending November 16, 1838) which was a good 23 years after the treaty was signed. Some Australians can claim American heritage because of it

[imthefrgt10]

well i cant remember the name of the battle but it involves the famous french foreign legion battle at the farmhouse. anyone know what im talking about?

[Hansa]

Eh, doesn't really matter

Anyway, here's the list

56. Panipat 1536-Mogul Afghan Wars

Great list, but Panipat was 1526. Just like Mogul history so much that I couldn't resist correcting you, far from an important error.

[~Alexander~]

For me " and sorry for my english but i do my best "

The Battle of zama...Scipio vs Hannibal...

The Fall of Rome in this period or what we know today...

my english is

[imb39]

For me " and sorry for my english but i do my best "

The Battle of zama...Scipio vs Hannibal...

The Fall of Rome in this period or what we know today...

my english is

Why are you apologising!?!?

Anyway, at Zama, Carthage was on her knees and the war was over. Rome had kicked Carthage out of Scicily and Iberia.

The Fall of Rome is, obviously, highly significant. Adrianopole is an important battle in this process...

[Dionysios II The Great]

The Battle of Golden Spurs, if we hadn't won, the French would've annexed us then.

[The Lacedaemonian]

hehe i wake up and this thread is already four pages. - so post your responses in one go, not over three... - imb39
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The Lacedaemonian has obviously played the Dynasty Warriors series and thinks that those battles meant something in the historical scheme of things.

actually i did. what of it? (it really didnt do anything just a civil war)
------

I'm not sure if I'm correct for my memory of the Three Kingdoms is questionable. But I believe 2 decisive battles are the Battle of Chi Bi and Battle of Guan Du.

Battle of Chi Bi, the combined forces of Wu and Shu were able to defeat Wei's much larger navy/army. This battle marked the last chance T'sao T'sao ever had at destroying Wei or Wu I believe.

Battle of Guan Du, Cao Cao was able to defeat Yuan Shao's much larger force due to the attack on his supply depot. I think this began T'sao T'sao's reign as king of northern china?

If I'm wrong, somebody please correct me.

no, no those are some.
Please use the edit button when adding new information. It is simply not good form to see lots of continuous posts by one person... - imb39

[turcopolier]

well i cant remember the name of the battle but it involves the famous french foreign legion battle at the farmhouse. anyone know what im talking about?

:hmmm:
You might be thinking about the Battle of Camarón

[vikrant]

Hansa

Great list, but Panipat was 1526. Just like Mogul history so much that I couldn't resist correcting you, far from an important error.
reply

* The First battle of Panipat (1526), between the Mughal Babur and the Delhi Sultanate
The battle marked the foundation of the so called Mughal or Mogul empire in India - the word means Mongol and alludes to the Turko-Mongol origins of Baburs and his officers, although the majority of his troops would probably have had been of mixed Central Asian descent.

* The Second battle of Panipat (1556) between the Mughal Akbar and the Sultan of Bengal

This battle, known as Second Battle of Panipat was an epoch-making event in the history of India as it resulted in re-establishment of the Mughal empire in India.
* The Third battle of Panipat (1761), between the Marathas and the Afghans

A conservative estimate places Maratha losses at 45,000 on the Panipat battlefield itself, and another 20,000 or more in surrounding areas besides at least 22,000 women and children as prisoners and slaves. half a million people were present there on Panipat town from Maharashtra and o figure of 40, 000 prisoners as executed. Most of the Maratha prisoners were camp-followers and pilgrims.

The Afghans losses were around 40,000. As far as battle casualties are concerned, the Afghans too suffered heavily. It was more like a battle lost by the Marathas than a battle won by the Afghans.

there is a say in marathi {lindian regional language}
he mate with his panipat
which is similar to
he mate with his waterloo infrench

and all were very much decesive in their own sence

[therussian]

- The Battle of Tours; Charlesmagne defeated the muslims with his Franks, breaking their spread of Islam in Europe and making Christianity still the dominating religion.

Charles Martel (the Hammer) actually.

And ya, to all those that corrected me, sorry. I had typed that really fast back in the day


Anyway, I'll have to add another to the list because it was unfortunately ommited: Fall of Constantinople- 1204

[The Lacedaemonian]

i thought the fall of Constantinople was at 1495? (or somewhere at 1400s)

[MaximiIian]

Whatever the hell was the first fight between one tribe of homonids and another. That must've been a turning point in one way or another.

[turcopolier]

It fell two or three times, in 1204 to the 4th crusade and in 1453 to the turks.

[Hansa]

* The First battle of Panipat (1526), between the Mughal Babur and the Delhi Sultanate
The battle marked the foundation of the so called Mughal or Mogul empire in India - the word means Mongol and alludes to the Turko-Mongol origins of Baburs and his officers, although the majority of his troops would probably have had been of mixed Central Asian descent.

* The Second battle of Panipat (1556) between the Mughal Akbar and the Sultan of Bengal

This battle, known as Second Battle of Panipat was an epoch-making event in the history of India as it resulted in re-establishment of the Mughal empire in India.

Ok, first I didn't know of the third battle of Panipat. Anyway, as the original date of battle said 1536, I assumed he meant 1526. The battle between Babur and Ibrahim Lodi, was the first battle that de facto placed the Mughals as the most powerful rulers in northern India. Many historians also claim that it was the first battle in India were gunpowder weapons were used extensively and effectively, thereby indroducing gunpowder warfare to India (Satish Chandra, Jos Gommans, etc). As you stated the second battle reaserted the Mughals in India, as Baburs sucessor Humayun, was thrown out of India by Afghans (Sher Khan, or Sher Shah?). Anyway, taking advantage of a war over succecion, Humayun was able to reconquer some of his Indian posessions, before he died (1555 or 56). Anyway, by this time the Mughal position in India was still strong, but they were there. Humayuns sucessor Akbar had to fight off several rivals in order to assert Mughal control (though he didn't command his armies at this time because of his age), hence Panipat 2, being perhaps the most important of these. As the Mughals were already in India, and Panipat 1 put theme there in the fiirst place, I recon that of these battles, Panipat 1 was more important. Thanks for info on Panipat 3 though, who would have thought, Panipat must be among the most popular battelfields in the world.

[Steeven]

It fell two or three times, in 1204 to the 4th crusade and in 1453 to the turks.

It did not really fall until the Ottomans showed up, maybe some crazy crusaders took some gold and stuff, but the city fell on 1453 for the first time, ending like what, 1500 years of independence? And that happened just 500 years ago? OMG.

[Spartan19]

Ok, well, sorry but it's true. You can't just say that if this one battle didn't happen, then history would change the most. Hell, even a small fistfight between two or three people can be "decisive"........somehow.



But if I had to choose.......it would probably be the battle of Salamis.


By the way, I suggest reading "The Battle: 100" by Michael Lanning. It's a good list, though some battles I think are either numbered incorrectly, or some shouldn't be there, or that some weren't even listed.

IM sorry, as huge a Spartan admirer as I am, you cannot say Thermopaylaye was that decesive. Important, most certainly, it help unify the seperated city states, gave the rest of the Greeks time to mobilize, showed that Sparta, will very seclusive and reluctant to act in a global stage was a first rate power in all of Greece, and it helped bloody the Persians.
Salamis is probably one of the most deceisive battles in history(at least for western civilization), it pretty much destroyed all of the "effective" combat ready Persian force, as the shaky Greek alliance was once again able to agree where and when to fight, while also being outnumbered by parts of the best navies in the world. It also helped make the victory at Platea become more and more possible with each Persian death Salamis.
If Salamis had not occured, who knows if or how Platea could have occured, and from there who knows how it would have effected the Greek world, leading into Roman history, as well as our Western civilization at all. Democracy could have been killed in its infancy.

[vikrant]

Hansa
yup that battle field is filed with martyts {??}
and the battlefield is very close to kurukshetra{mentioned in epics}
and yes as from the europian acounts the gunpowder came to india in1526
{dont u feel thats strange which is the closest country to china india and how did gunpowder reached to india
china-mongoles-europe-mongoles-india}?
}