Fallout 4

**Szlachta** · January 10, 2013, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by ivan_the_terrible

Well they could always improve their writing. Morrowind and a couple of quests in Oblivion and Skyrim show that they're capable of it. My inclination is that they've been getting a bit lazy lately.

It's not that hard to please most Fallout fans, I think; you just have to write well and respect existing lore -- something that Obsidian had no trouble at all doing in New Vegas.

It isn't laziness per say, it is trying to appeal to a dumbed down, wider audience. AKA people that dont like RPGs.

**Clagius** · January 11, 2013, 06:17 AM

My only hope for Fallout 4 is that Enclave returns and the player is able to join/aid them. In Fallout 3 it sucked in my opinion that you were stuck with the Brotherhood of Steel and fighting the Enclave. And New Vegas made a mistake in the part of pushing away the tech stuff pretty much from the game. For example, Brotherhood of Steel and Enclave almost killed? Only handful of people remains? That's just... wrong. I'd say the game franchise is based around Brotherhood and Enclave, honestly. NCR, Legion, House and the rest of them are just so boring compared to these former super powers.

**SLN445** · January 11, 2013, 06:37 AM

Id hardly call the Enclave as what the games based around, really they shouldve died off after Fallout 2. The brotherhood i can agree with but their makeup practicaly is designed for a slow death...unless you design something similiar to the Midwestern Brotherhood.
I find NCR to be perfectly acceptable even if they could use some more personality, getting bigger and stronger as time goes on even if its showing signs of weakening due to overextending itself and a problematic government system.
Legion and House couldve of defintaly used more work, the legion in theory is still a good concept though.

**BigDogDavis** · January 11, 2013, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Clagius

My only hope for Fallout 4 is that Enclave returns and the player is able to join/aid them. In Fallout 3 it sucked in my opinion that you were stuck with the Brotherhood of Steel and fighting the Enclave. And New Vegas made a mistake in the part of pushing away the tech stuff pretty much from the game. For example, Brotherhood of Steel and Enclave almost killed? Only handful of people remains? That's just... wrong. I'd say the game franchise is based around Brotherhood and Enclave, honestly. NCR, Legion, House and the rest of them are just so boring compared to these former super powers.

But the Brotherhood was never some super huge faction, same with the Enclave. They were powerful, but not in numbers. Also, if you let a series keep using the same factions over and over, it's going to become stale. The Brotherhood, Enclave and Super Mutants were shoehorned in to make Fallout 3 look more like a Fallout, but they had a chance to reinvent the east coast into something more interesting than it ended up being.

**War lord** · January 11, 2013, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by BigDogDavis

But the Brotherhood was never some super huge faction, same with the Enclave. They were powerful, but not in numbers. Also, if you let a series keep using the same factions over and over, it's going to become stale. The Brotherhood, Enclave and Super Mutants were shoehorned in to make Fallout 3 look more like a Fallout, but they had a chance to reinvent the east coast into something more interesting than it ended up being.

I think one of the reasons the Fallout games fell dramatically after 2 is because Interplay handed the story off to third parties who automatically assumed that BoS= Good Enclave= Evil. When really they're really only slightly different. The Brotherhood believes in hoarding technology to protect humanity from itself, they would be perfectly happy if the rest of the rest of Humanity died horribly. In Fallout 1 to even get information out of the Elders you need to convince them that the Master poses a direct threat to them personally. They stay out of the fight in Fallout 2 completely, only watching the chosen one from a distance. The Enclave also Hoards prewar Tech, but they want it to control humanity and restore the old Fascist US government. At the end of the day they are both Elitist Fanatical groups with absolutely no concern for outsiders and their gaze fixed on the past.

**SLN445** · January 12, 2013, 02:42 AM

Though atleast the Enclave works on making new stuff which the brotherhood dont tend to do much, being content to live in their bunkers with whatever tech they can get with or without force.

**Clagius** · January 12, 2013, 09:20 AM

The Brotherhood would kill just anyone at all if it meant they got their hands in some technology. They are just as "bad" as the Enclave, with a different Agenda.

**BigDogDavis** · January 12, 2013, 10:18 AM

I like to think there are no bad guys in Fallout, just different ideals.

**motiv-8** · January 12, 2013, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by War Lord

I think one of the reasons the Fallout games fell dramatically after 2 is because Interplay handed the story off to third parties who automatically assumed that BoS= Good Enclave= Evil. When really they're really only slightly different.

Ah, no, it's quite well explained in Fallout 3 that the BoS faction in Washington split from the main BoS in the West BECAUSE they wanted to do more than hoard technology like some kind of religion, BECAUSE they wanted to help people and "do good." Did you even play Fallout 3?

**BigDogDavis** · January 12, 2013, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by motiv-8

Ah, no, it's quite well explained in Fallout 3 that the BoS faction in Washington split from the main BoS in the West BECAUSE they wanted to do more than hoard technology like some kind of religion, BECAUSE they wanted to help people and "do good." Did you even play Fallout 3?

But here's a question though, how the hell do the east coast Brotherhood treck from California all the way to Washington? And how come they go by the original name of the Brotherhood, while the "outcasts" are called "outcasts" despite following the original goal of the brotherhood.

**Clagius** · January 12, 2013, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by BigDogDavis

But here's a question though, how the hell do the east coast Brotherhood treck from California all the way to Washington? And how come they go by the original name of the Brotherhood, while the "outcasts" are called "outcasts" despite following the original goal of the brotherhood.

Play Fallout 3... Outcasts are former members of the Lyons' chapter who believed that finding technology was far more important than helping people. Lyons' chapter is still part of the Brotherhood, even though despised by other branches because they do more than they were ordered. They still do find technology whenever they can, but Elder Lyons believes that they should use their high-end technology to help people.

**BigDogDavis** · January 12, 2013, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Clagius

Play Fallout 3

I have. The East coast Brotherhood share no actual resemblance to the old Brotherhood.

**Turkeys!** · January 12, 2013, 12:32 PM

He just explained that. The East Coast BOS is more humane compared to the Old Brotherhood because they want to help the people around them and not just sit on their technology. The Outcasts are called outcasts because they were essentially outcast by Elder Lyons due to not wanting to comply with his ideals and because they wanted to stick with the status quo.

**War lord** · January 12, 2013, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by motiv-8

Ah, no, it's quite well explained in Fallout 3 that the BoS faction in Washington split from the main BoS in the West BECAUSE they wanted to do more than hoard technology like some kind of religion, BECAUSE they wanted to help people and "do good." Did you even play Fallout 3?

Then they aren't really the Brotherhood of Steel are they? It's like if their was a Nazi splinter group that wasn't Nationalistic or Racist. I can suspend my disbelief about Lyons suddenly deciding he wants to play the Followers of the Apocalypse and not getting a Laser to the face for expressing that wish for the sake of story, but I don't see why Lyon's outfit is suddenly the legitimate BOS and the people who follow the mission are the outcast group. Nor do I understand why the game considers them all on the level of Talon Company and Raiders Karma wise or why they would paint their Armour black and red as if to call themselves evil. My answer is that Bethsoft can't or will not write the morally gray situations Fallout needs.

**motiv-8** · January 12, 2013, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by War lord

Then they aren't really the Brotherhood of Steel are they?

Yes, they are, and there's not much else to discuss.

**Clagius** · January 12, 2013, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by BigDogDavis

I have. The East coast Brotherhood share no actual resemblance to the old Brotherhood.

Read my post again.

**Sigma** · January 12, 2013, 07:23 PM

If you look at the big picture in FO3 the names for the two BoS factions should be switched. Lyon's group are the true outcasts while the outcasts are the true BoS.

**BigDogDavis** · January 12, 2013, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by motiv-8

Yes, they are, and there's not much else to discuss.

Just because they say they are doesn't mean they are. The Klu Klux Klan could rename themselves the Black Panthers, but that doesn't mean they're the Black Panters

**motiv-8** · January 12, 2013, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by BigDogDavis

Just because they say they are doesn't mean they are. The Klu Klux Klan could rename themselves the Black Panthers, but that doesn't mean they're the Black Panters

Stupid analogy. There is nothing to discuss,

**BigDogDavis** · January 13, 2013, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by motiv-8

Stupid analogy. There is nothing to discuss,

The Western Brotherhoods goal is to horde all technology so the common people don't use it to kill each other.

The East Coast "Brotherhood"'s goal is to protect the people of the wasteland, and allow the common people to join and get access to the advanced technology.

Two different ideologies, yet the latter claims to be the former, which is not the case at all.